In a fantasy setting, what are the limitations of Demons wherein they can bestow obscene amounts of power on an individual for a piece of that persons soul yet said Demon cannot wield it for themselves? What stops the individual from using said power to slay the Demon that gave it to them in the first place?
In a fantasy setting, what are the limitations of Demons wherein they can bestow obscene amounts of power on an individual for a piece of that persons soul yet said Demon cannot wield it for themselves? What stops the individual from using said power to slay the Demon that gave it to them in the first place?
Who says the demon can't wield the power themselves? I'm not aware of any single case of that happening in the lore of the game.
In a fantasy setting, what are the limitations of Demons wherein they can bestow obscene amounts of power on an individual for a piece of that persons soul yet said Demon cannot wield it for themselves? What stops the individual from using said power to slay the Demon that gave it to them in the first place?
Who says the demon can't wield the power themselves? I'm not aware of any single case of that happening in the lore of the game.
One that comes to mind is the Rakshasas giving the Nagas the powers to rule the Sultai instead of ruling it themselves.
In a fantasy setting, what are the limitations of Demons wherein they can bestow obscene amounts of power on an individual for a piece of that persons soul yet said Demon cannot wield it for themselves? What stops the individual from using said power to slay the Demon that gave it to them in the first place?
Who says the demon can't wield the power themselves? I'm not aware of any single case of that happening in the lore of the game.
One that comes to mind is the Rakshasas giving the Nagas the powers to rule the Sultai instead of ruling it themselves.
Cannot =/= will not =/= want not
Just because they let someone else use the power they give to lead doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to do so themselves if they wanted to. The Rakshasas are clearly able to wield the same kind of magic they taught the nagas, and there's no hint that the nagas would be able to get rid of the Rakshasas if they tried to.
There is a case where the demon can't wield the power they give? Or where said powers were used successfully used against the demon?
One that comes to mind is the Rakshasas giving the Nagas the powers to rule the Sultai instead of ruling it themselves.
The UR articles make it clear that the Rakshasas ARE the true rulers of the Sultai, though.
Only in that "we're totally pulling the strings from the shadows" way. We haven't seen them accomplish any of there goals (if they have any) unlike Sidisi and Silumgar.
The problem with saying that is we don't know any of their 'goals' other than what they already do.
It really seems like they want at least one degree of separation from rulership specifically so it is harder to usurp them
Exactly. It's much easier to be the power behind the throne than the power on the throne. Why put yourself out there when you can have someone else do the dirty work for you?
I think it's the classic conflict of influence vs. military power.
The rakshasa have really powerful magic but are able to muster only moderate army by thenselves. In a all out war against the other factions of the Sultai they could actually loose.
However they have a positioning the other factions lack. In a conflict between 3 factions (let's says, humans, nagas and rakshasa), the result is normally that two factions form a alliance and submits the third one. The rakshasa is the middle faction (the one that forms the alliance) because they are better allies for a few reasons:
- They offer privilege in the form of magic to the leaders of the other two factions, while humans have only muscle to offer to naga and vice-versa.
- But most importantly, the rakshasa are open minded about compromise. They don't want to rule directly unlike the other two factions, so winning with rakshasa by your side is the most profitable outcome given you know you will never win alone.
It's precisely a more far sighted and moderated view on power ("I want power, but not all of it") that gives the rakshasa the ability to pull the strings and act as the middle party, the one that actually decides who wins. That, until a forth player appears and overpower the rest
That's sort of my view on how sultai politics worked.
As for the case of the Rakshasa having the power to change the "official" ruler as they see fit (choosing a new puppet) read the uncharted realms "fall of the golden fang". Tasigur ticks off a Rakshasa, who tells him who's really in charge, then Silumgar comes and takes over. While this references the Sultai of the past, when the humans were in charge, nothing suggests that the Rakshasa have any less power in the Khans timeline "present". In fact, considering they were behind the change of power from human to naga, it seems more likely that, if anything, the Rakshasa are more influential with naga rule than when humans were in charge. The Rakshasa prefer to work behind the scenes, letting the current puppet ruler change as a way to focus the enmity of the slave/servant caste on others. If most don't know that they are the rulers, who can try to overthrow them? Also possible that they view themselves as above the day-to-day running of the clan, and like letting someone else manage the clan while they focus on whatever demons find interesting.
The only other examples in magic that I can think of where a demon isn't clearly in charge of the person they made the deals with are Ob Nixilis and Liliana, who are both special cases because they are planeswalkers and therefore have abilities the demons do not (specifically, the ability to planeswalk beyond the demon's real sphere of influence)
Not sure what it is in this story but i usually attribute it to the whole balance between good and evil thing.
for what ever reason the angelic forces and demonic forces in any situation are reluctant to show too much power or control events to directly because it allows, encourages or otherwise causes the enemy to do the same.
Its kind of a paper rock sizers thing. Angels cannot control humans too strictly because it leads to zealotry and corruption (think the crusades and the inquisition), zealotry and corruption leads to the rise of the demonic forces, rise of the demonic forces leads to the angels rallying against the deamons and defeating them.
thus angels attempt to stay alloof or removed from humans and work as a "guiding light" while deamons try to work from the shadows
In a fantasy setting, what are the limitations of Demons wherein they can bestow obscene amounts of power on an individual for a piece of that persons soul yet said Demon cannot wield it for themselves? What stops the individual from using said power to slay the Demon that gave it to them in the first place?
I think this is the whole basis of Liliana's story
In a fantasy setting, what are the limitations of Demons wherein they can bestow obscene amounts of power on an individual for a piece of that persons soul yet said Demon cannot wield it for themselves? What stops the individual from using said power to slay the Demon that gave it to them in the first place?
I think this is the whole basis of Liliana's story
Not exactly, it's not a power the demon Kothoped had for himself and gave to her. It was an artifact he wanted to acquire and sent her to retrieve it for him (probably because it was on another plane).
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Who says the demon can't wield the power themselves? I'm not aware of any single case of that happening in the lore of the game.
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Cannot =/= will not =/= want not
Just because they let someone else use the power they give to lead doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to do so themselves if they wanted to. The Rakshasas are clearly able to wield the same kind of magic they taught the nagas, and there's no hint that the nagas would be able to get rid of the Rakshasas if they tried to.
There is a case where the demon can't wield the power they give? Or where said powers were used successfully used against the demon?
It really seems like they want at least one degree of separation from rulership specifically so it is harder to usurp them
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The rakshasa have really powerful magic but are able to muster only moderate army by thenselves. In a all out war against the other factions of the Sultai they could actually loose.
However they have a positioning the other factions lack. In a conflict between 3 factions (let's says, humans, nagas and rakshasa), the result is normally that two factions form a alliance and submits the third one. The rakshasa is the middle faction (the one that forms the alliance) because they are better allies for a few reasons:
- They offer privilege in the form of magic to the leaders of the other two factions, while humans have only muscle to offer to naga and vice-versa.
- But most importantly, the rakshasa are open minded about compromise. They don't want to rule directly unlike the other two factions, so winning with rakshasa by your side is the most profitable outcome given you know you will never win alone.
It's precisely a more far sighted and moderated view on power ("I want power, but not all of it") that gives the rakshasa the ability to pull the strings and act as the middle party, the one that actually decides who wins. That, until a forth player appears and overpower the rest
That's sort of my view on how sultai politics worked.
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The only other examples in magic that I can think of where a demon isn't clearly in charge of the person they made the deals with are Ob Nixilis and Liliana, who are both special cases because they are planeswalkers and therefore have abilities the demons do not (specifically, the ability to planeswalk beyond the demon's real sphere of influence)
for what ever reason the angelic forces and demonic forces in any situation are reluctant to show too much power or control events to directly because it allows, encourages or otherwise causes the enemy to do the same.
Its kind of a paper rock sizers thing. Angels cannot control humans too strictly because it leads to zealotry and corruption (think the crusades and the inquisition), zealotry and corruption leads to the rise of the demonic forces, rise of the demonic forces leads to the angels rallying against the deamons and defeating them.
thus angels attempt to stay alloof or removed from humans and work as a "guiding light" while deamons try to work from the shadows
just my thoughts on the matter
I think this is the whole basis of Liliana's story
Not exactly, it's not a power the demon Kothoped had for himself and gave to her. It was an artifact he wanted to acquire and sent her to retrieve it for him (probably because it was on another plane).