I feel like that approach is too much "Have my cake and eat it too. " Like you get to do all of the fun time line changing things but then you say "Well technically it's just a different timeline"
Personally, I find the "branching timelines" approach to be the best way to handle time travel. You go into the past to change something? Oops, you didn't actually change anything. All you did was create a new universe; the old one still exists. That way you avoid all the annoying paradoxes that comes with this plot.
I may like this approach best because of how Dragonball handled it.
I feel like that approach is too much "Have my cake and eat it too. " Like you get to do all of the fun time line changing things but then you say "Well technically it's just a different timeline"
Isn't that exactly what happened Tarkir did, though? Basically all Sarkhan accomplished was switching from one universe to a parallel one. Otherwise the Temur/Atarka shamans wouldn't be able to see the alternate nows.
Can you name some popular time travel fiction that isn't completely ridiculous? Honestly the Tarkir plotline makes more sense than any of the Back to the Future or Terminator movies.
Urza's Saga
/thread
You clearly don't know much about the story or any Magic story if you think that's the case. Tarkir's been well received at basically every level.
I'm sorry my opinion is different from yours, you'll get over it. Though please, enlighten me as to how Urza's Saga poorly handled time travel.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Personally, I find the "branching timelines" approach to be the best way to handle time travel. You go into the past to change something? Oops, you didn't actually change anything. All you did was create a new universe; the old one still exists. That way you avoid all the annoying paradoxes that comes with this plot.
I may like this approach best because of how Dragonball handled it.
I feel like that approach is too much "Have my cake and eat it too. " Like you get to do all of the fun time line changing things but then you say "Well technically it's just a different timeline"
Isn't that exactly what happened Tarkir did, though? Basically all Sarkhan accomplished was switching from one universe to a parallel one. Otherwise the Temur/Atarka shamans wouldn't be able to see the alternate nows.
Nooooooot really.
When you go back forward in time, you realize you didn't actually change anything beyond creating a separate universe that you have to go to an abandon the one you normally inhabit.
Lets say some apocalypse happened in your home timeline, A. You go back into A's past and change it. Then you go back forward into A's future, only to see nothing about A has changed. Meanwhile, the changes you caused in the past split off from A to create a B universe where the changes stuck. So A is still awful and you're still stuck there.
Personally, I find the "branching timelines" approach to be the best way to handle time travel. You go into the past to change something? Oops, you didn't actually change anything. All you did was create a new universe; the old one still exists. That way you avoid all the annoying paradoxes that comes with this plot.
I may like this approach best because of how Dragonball handled it.
I feel like that approach is too much "Have my cake and eat it too. " Like you get to do all of the fun time line changing things but then you say "Well technically it's just a different timeline"
Isn't that exactly what happened Tarkir did, though? Basically all Sarkhan accomplished was switching from one universe to a parallel one. Otherwise the Temur/Atarka shamans wouldn't be able to see the alternate nows.
Nooooooot really.
When you go back forward in time, you realize you didn't actually change anything beyond creating a separate universe that you have to go to an abandon the one you normally inhabit.
Lets say some apocalypse happened in your home timeline, A. You go back into A's past and change it. Then you go back forward into A's future, only to see nothing about A has changed. Meanwhile, the changes you caused in the past split off from A to create a B universe where the changes stuck. So A is still awful and you're still stuck there.
Basically, Planar Chaos.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Personally, I find the "branching timelines" approach to be the best way to handle time travel. You go into the past to change something? Oops, you didn't actually change anything. All you did was create a new universe; the old one still exists. That way you avoid all the annoying paradoxes that comes with this plot.
I may like this approach best because of how Dragonball handled it.
I feel like that approach is too much "Have my cake and eat it too. " Like you get to do all of the fun time line changing things but then you say "Well technically it's just a different timeline"
Isn't that exactly what happened Tarkir did, though? Basically all Sarkhan accomplished was switching from one universe to a parallel one. Otherwise the Temur/Atarka shamans wouldn't be able to see the alternate nows.
Nooooooot really.
When you go back forward in time, you realize you didn't actually change anything beyond creating a separate universe that you have to go to an abandon the one you normally inhabit.
Lets say some apocalypse happened in your home timeline, A. You go back into A's past and change it. Then you go back forward into A's future, only to see nothing about A has changed. Meanwhile, the changes you caused in the past split off from A to create a B universe where the changes stuck. So A is still awful and you're still stuck there.
But why would you go back to A? As soon as you affect the timeline, you have already entered B. If you then fast forward to the present you're still in B.
I mean in the end it doesn't even matter. The mechanic of how timelines are handled is the same. The only difference is where the timetraveler ends up, which is arbitrary and only tangentially related to the timetravel itself.
But why would you go back to A? As soon as you affect the timeline, you have already entered B. If you then fast forward to the present you're still in B.
I mean in the end it doesn't even matter. The mechanic of how timelines are handled is the same. The only difference is where the timetraveler ends up, which is arbitrary and only tangentially related to the timetravel itself.
I'd argue the most important part of a time travel story is the time traveler returning to his future to see what happened.
And that's why I mentioned it being a specific way to handle time travel. Your actions may have created another world, but you're not part of that alternate future, so you go back to your original. That's the least confusing and plot hole-inducing way to handle it, imo.
But why would you go back to A? As soon as you affect the timeline, you have already entered B. If you then fast forward to the present you're still in B.
I mean in the end it doesn't even matter. The mechanic of how timelines are handled is the same. The only difference is where the timetraveler ends up, which is arbitrary and only tangentially related to the timetravel itself.
I'd argue the most important part of a time travel story is the time traveler returning to his future to see what happened.
And that's why I mentioned it being a specific way to handle time travel. Your actions may have created another world, but you're not part of that alternate future, so you go back to your original. That's the least confusing and plot hole-inducing way to handle it, imo.
Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the timetravel though? If you're not going to see the altered future, why even write a story about it.
I think a lot of you aren't recognizing that this story is primarily told through art and snippets of text on trading cards. The format through this story was told made it clear the focus wasn't on time travel mechanics, or a strong understanding of theoretical physics. Rather, it's a story about change. The first set establishes the norms and personalities of the world, the second set shows how those norms and personalities could exist and their alternatives, and the final set shows how those norms and personalities have changed.
This is probably the best story for a format like this, because we can easily see how things changed just by playing with the cards. Not just through the art, but mechanically too. You don't need UR at all to figure this all out, and that's fantastic.
This is probably the best story for a format like this, because we can easily see how things changed just by playing with the cards. Not just through the art, but mechanically too. You don't need UR at all to figure this all out, and that's fantastic.
No, I agree with you. As I said before, in terms of building the world and integrating the story with the cards, Magic have succeeded fantastically. Personally, I got into Magic almost completely because of the storyline though. I wanted more than brief glimpses into the world(s) they'd created. Currently, I haven't played in a while and I've been reading most of the tie-in books I have (over 40) several times a month as I do research for the novel length fanfiction I'm writing, which I'm hoping can become more (despite my fruitless efforts thus far).
Also, what is the internet for, if not to nitpick fiction and its trivia? Besides porn, I mean.
Speaking of nitpicking, while I concede that some of my previous objections to Tarkir's timelines were poor and somewhat hypocritical,I will say that the deus ex machina aspect of the time travel bothered me. "Rules" had already been sort of established in Time Streams, that only certain metals could survive the trip. Granted, different planes, possibly different rules. Even so, I feel like it does take away some of the mystique of Urza's experiments and Karn's status as one of the only time travelers in the multiverse.
I think a lot of you aren't recognizing that this story is primarily told through art and snippets of text on trading cards. The format through this story was told made it clear the focus wasn't on time travel mechanics, or a strong understanding of theoretical physics. Rather, it's a story about change. The first set establishes the norms and personalities of the world, the second set shows how those norms and personalities could exist and their alternatives, and the final set shows how those norms and personalities have changed.
This is probably the best story for a format like this, because we can easily see how things changed just by playing with the cards. Not just through the art, but mechanically too. You don't need UR at all to figure this all out, and that's fantastic.
I agree with everything you said, but that doesn't make it a good story. Aside from the time travel silliness, and Sarkhan being a bit of an idiot, the change that occurred replaced interesting clans with fairly boring broods. They should have realized that clans based on wedges would be more interesting than allied color pair broods, due to the wedges having to reconcile 2 enemy color relationships at once. The broods, on the other hand, seem to be pretty generic representations of their colors. Oh, you mean that the UW group is all about order and knowledge, and the UB group are a bunch of mustache twirling schemers? Next you'll tell me that RB is a bunch of murderous psychos, RG is a bunch of uncivilized brutes, and WG is a tight knit good guy society that puts the needs of the group first.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think a lot of you aren't recognizing that this story is primarily told through art and snippets of text on trading cards. The format through this story was told made it clear the focus wasn't on time travel mechanics, or a strong understanding of theoretical physics. Rather, it's a story about change. The first set establishes the norms and personalities of the world, the second set shows how those norms and personalities could exist and their alternatives, and the final set shows how those norms and personalities have changed.
This is probably the best story for a format like this, because we can easily see how things changed just by playing with the cards. Not just through the art, but mechanically too. You don't need UR at all to figure this all out, and that's fantastic.
I agree with everything you said, but that doesn't make it a good story. Aside from the time travel silliness, and Sarkhan being a bit of an idiot, the change that occurred replaced interesting clans with fairly boring broods. They should have realized that clans based on wedges would be more interesting than allied color pair broods, due to the wedges having to reconcile 2 enemy color relationships at once. The broods, on the other hand, seem to be pretty generic representations of their colors. Oh, you mean that the UW group is all about order and knowledge, and the UB group are a bunch of mustache twirling schemers? Next you'll tell me that RB is a bunch of murderous psychos, RG is a bunch of uncivilized brutes, and WG is a tight knit good guy society that puts the needs of the group first.
I also thought it would be way cooler if the set would still be wedge, but with the dragons instead of going 2 color.
Overall the clans are still functional and they dont really do anything too different from what they did without the dragon "ruling" them. They just act as they have to obey the dragon rule, so their "natural" elements are kinda perverted and refocused on the dragonlord.
The very best they did with the time shift are the Khans, which actual changed in card form and represent a truly different time-line.
I think a lot of you aren't recognizing that this story is primarily told through art and snippets of text on trading cards. The format through this story was told made it clear the focus wasn't on time travel mechanics, or a strong understanding of theoretical physics. Rather, it's a story about change. The first set establishes the norms and personalities of the world, the second set shows how those norms and personalities could exist and their alternatives, and the final set shows how those norms and personalities have changed.
This is probably the best story for a format like this, because we can easily see how things changed just by playing with the cards. Not just through the art, but mechanically too. You don't need UR at all to figure this all out, and that's fantastic.
I agree with everything you said, but that doesn't make it a good story. Aside from the time travel silliness, and Sarkhan being a bit of an idiot, the change that occurred replaced interesting clans with fairly boring broods. They should have realized that clans based on wedges would be more interesting than allied color pair broods, due to the wedges having to reconcile 2 enemy color relationships at once. The broods, on the other hand, seem to be pretty generic representations of their colors. Oh, you mean that the UW group is all about order and knowledge, and the UB group are a bunch of mustache twirling schemers? Next you'll tell me that RB is a bunch of murderous psychos, RG is a bunch of uncivilized brutes, and WG is a tight knit good guy society that puts the needs of the group first.
I also thought it would be way cooler if the set would still be wedge, but with the dragons instead of going 2 color.
Overall the clans are still functional and they dont really do anything too different from what they did without the dragon "ruling" them. They just act as they have to obey the dragon rule, so their "natural" elements are kinda perverted and refocused on the dragonlord.
The very best they did with the time shift are the Khans, which actual changed in card form and represent a truly different time-line.
The Khans were pretty well done. I still think they could have made the broods more original though. As it stands, not only do they compare unfavorably to the clans, but to the Ravnica guilds as well, which were only separated from the broods by a block. I look at Ojutai's brood, for instance, and not only do I think "I liked these guys a lot more when they were Jeskai", I think "I also like them better when they were Azorius".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the timetravel though? If you're not going to see the altered future, why even write a story about it.
Well not really. It's a way to say "Hey, no matter what you do, you're not going to just fix things with one little trip." It'd be like if in your future all the trees are gone, so you go back into the past to save the trees. How do you save your future? You bring a seedling from the past and plant it in your set timeline and fox your world the hard way. It's a good way to show the resolve of your characters when they see that what they did was pointless from a self-interest perspective and that they have to do hard work to fix things. I like it more than the paradox-inducing mess other methods give us.
Here's a time travel story using this plot:
Person's world is ravaged by cyborgs. Person goes back in time to set right what went wrong and save his world. He then goes back into the future to realize nothing changed and that changing further things in the past doesn't impact his future. He stays in the past and helps the characters to stop the cyborgs. He then takes that knowledge to his time period and stop the cyborgs there.
I think of this plot as Ugin creating a 'save point' in Tarkir's history, represented by Ugin's Nexus. His death triggers this.
Sarkhan was then born 1280 years later to revert Tarkir. This whole 1280 years has been 'fake' and existed only due to Ugin's magic. Tarkir then reverts back to its old self.
This somewhat explains the same people existing in 'fake' (Khans timeline) Tarkir. And it makes Sarkhan the first Planeswalker created by another Planeswalker since Karn.
I think of this plot as Ugin creating a 'save point' in Tarkir's history, represented by Ugin's Nexus. His death triggers this.
Sarkhan was then born 1280 years later to revert Tarkir. This whole 1280 years has been 'fake' and existed only due to Ugin's magic. Tarkir then reverts back to its old self.
This somewhat explains the same people existing in 'fake' (Khans timeline) Tarkir. And it makes Sarkhan the first Planeswalker created by another Planeswalker since Karn.
It amuses me to imagine Ugin has been repeatedly save-scumming Tarkir until he gets his Good End of being alive.
The problem is this entire block happened because they felt like doing one where it was Large, Small, Large, and then they'd fit a story around it. If you listen to Maro's podcast he mentions a couple of times that time travel was only introduced because they needed an explaination for why the first and last sets drafted with the middle one. It wasn't that they had this master plan that intended on going into the past to tell a really unique story, they just wanted to do something cool for the limited folks. Sorin is 7000+ years old, he could have easily resurrected Ugin using some form of necromancy. Look at how many times Lim-Dul (a human with no spark) was able to come back from the dead. Unfortunately the plot serves the game and the people managing it aren't all that great to begin with. Things were much better when they had published authors writing the story.
Sorin is 7000+ years old, he could have easily resurrected Ugin using some form of necromancy.
Sorin as far as we know dosn't have use necromancy outside of turning others into vampires and I don't count that as necromancy since Innistrad vampires are "living" and we don't even know if that work on a spirirt dragon. Plus death strips a planeswalker of thier spark, if Sorin could have brought Ugin back, we just have a planebound Legendary Creature- Spirirt Dragon Zombie, Ugin.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the timetravel though? If you're not going to see the altered future, why even write a story about it.
Well not really. It's a way to say "Hey, no matter what you do, you're not going to just fix things with one little trip." It'd be like if in your future all the trees are gone, so you go back into the past to save the trees. How do you save your future? You bring a seedling from the past and plant it in your set timeline and fox your world the hard way. It's a good way to show the resolve of your characters when they see that what they did was pointless from a self-interest perspective and that they have to do hard work to fix things. I like it more than the paradox-inducing mess other methods give us.
Here's a time travel story using this plot:
Person's world is ravaged by cyborgs. Person goes back in time to set right what went wrong and save his world. He then goes back into the future to realize nothing changed and that changing further things in the past doesn't impact his future. He stays in the past and helps the characters to stop the cyborgs. He then takes that knowledge to his time period and stop the cyborgs there.
I wasn't particularly fond of Dragon Ball Z's time travel, personally.
Sorin is 7000+ years old, he could have easily resurrected Ugin using some form of necromancy.
Sorin as far as we know dosn't have use necromancy outside of turning others into vampires and I don't count that as necromancy since Innistrad vampires are "living" and we don't even know if that work on a spirirt dragon. Plus death strips a planeswalker of thier spark, if Sorin could have brought Ugin back, we just have a planebound Legendary Creature- Spirirt Dragon Zombie, Ugin.
I'm saying consider how long 7000+ years are and how much someone accomplishes in a normal lifespan. They could basically say Sorin knows X and it would be believable. I realize Ugin wouldn't have a spark but at the same time that's not necessarily a bad thing, from what we've seen thus far there's no reason he has to go to Zendikar and personally stop the Eldrazi. He tells Sorin it has to be the original three but he also has no idea what's been going on the whole time he was out. More specifically, he's opperating on knowledge that assumes the Mending didn't happen. Sarkhan could have brought Ugin back, studied under him, and assumed his role. I really got a sense that Sarkhan was going to transform into a much more interesting and pivotal character than he is. Instead it feels like he's going to continue being a follower while saying nothing but, "Dragon dragon dragon dragon. Dragon Dragon?"
Lol. Dragonball toying with timelines is simplistic at best. The focus is on the Super Saiyans, very little else matters.
Sorin uses his necromancy powers as a means to an end. Besides, we do not know how durable are these vampires. As far as the lore goes most of his vampires don't last very long. Turning Ugin into one may not be a very smart move.
But this is exactly what happened to Tarkir. Both timelines still "exist" in a way (or else the shamans wouldn't be able to sense the alternate nows) it's just that Sarkhan jumped from one timeline into another and we, the reader, followed him on his journey.
Isn't that exactly what happened Tarkir did, though? Basically all Sarkhan accomplished was switching from one universe to a parallel one. Otherwise the Temur/Atarka shamans wouldn't be able to see the alternate nows.
I'm sorry my opinion is different from yours, you'll get over it. Though please, enlighten me as to how Urza's Saga poorly handled time travel.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Nooooooot really.
When you go back forward in time, you realize you didn't actually change anything beyond creating a separate universe that you have to go to an abandon the one you normally inhabit.
Lets say some apocalypse happened in your home timeline, A. You go back into A's past and change it. Then you go back forward into A's future, only to see nothing about A has changed. Meanwhile, the changes you caused in the past split off from A to create a B universe where the changes stuck. So A is still awful and you're still stuck there.
Your mods are terrified of me.
Basically, Planar Chaos.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
But why would you go back to A? As soon as you affect the timeline, you have already entered B. If you then fast forward to the present you're still in B.
I mean in the end it doesn't even matter. The mechanic of how timelines are handled is the same. The only difference is where the timetraveler ends up, which is arbitrary and only tangentially related to the timetravel itself.
I'd argue the most important part of a time travel story is the time traveler returning to his future to see what happened.
And that's why I mentioned it being a specific way to handle time travel. Your actions may have created another world, but you're not part of that alternate future, so you go back to your original. That's the least confusing and plot hole-inducing way to handle it, imo.
Your mods are terrified of me.
Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the timetravel though? If you're not going to see the altered future, why even write a story about it.
This is probably the best story for a format like this, because we can easily see how things changed just by playing with the cards. Not just through the art, but mechanically too. You don't need UR at all to figure this all out, and that's fantastic.
No, I agree with you. As I said before, in terms of building the world and integrating the story with the cards, Magic have succeeded fantastically. Personally, I got into Magic almost completely because of the storyline though. I wanted more than brief glimpses into the world(s) they'd created. Currently, I haven't played in a while and I've been reading most of the tie-in books I have (over 40) several times a month as I do research for the novel length fanfiction I'm writing, which I'm hoping can become more (despite my fruitless efforts thus far).
Also, what is the internet for, if not to nitpick fiction and its trivia? Besides porn, I mean.
Speaking of nitpicking, while I concede that some of my previous objections to Tarkir's timelines were poor and somewhat hypocritical,I will say that the deus ex machina aspect of the time travel bothered me. "Rules" had already been sort of established in Time Streams, that only certain metals could survive the trip. Granted, different planes, possibly different rules. Even so, I feel like it does take away some of the mystique of Urza's experiments and Karn's status as one of the only time travelers in the multiverse.
I agree with everything you said, but that doesn't make it a good story. Aside from the time travel silliness, and Sarkhan being a bit of an idiot, the change that occurred replaced interesting clans with fairly boring broods. They should have realized that clans based on wedges would be more interesting than allied color pair broods, due to the wedges having to reconcile 2 enemy color relationships at once. The broods, on the other hand, seem to be pretty generic representations of their colors. Oh, you mean that the UW group is all about order and knowledge, and the UB group are a bunch of mustache twirling schemers? Next you'll tell me that RB is a bunch of murderous psychos, RG is a bunch of uncivilized brutes, and WG is a tight knit good guy society that puts the needs of the group first.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I also thought it would be way cooler if the set would still be wedge, but with the dragons instead of going 2 color.
Overall the clans are still functional and they dont really do anything too different from what they did without the dragon "ruling" them. They just act as they have to obey the dragon rule, so their "natural" elements are kinda perverted and refocused on the dragonlord.
The very best they did with the time shift are the Khans, which actual changed in card form and represent a truly different time-line.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The Khans were pretty well done. I still think they could have made the broods more original though. As it stands, not only do they compare unfavorably to the clans, but to the Ravnica guilds as well, which were only separated from the broods by a block. I look at Ojutai's brood, for instance, and not only do I think "I liked these guys a lot more when they were Jeskai", I think "I also like them better when they were Azorius".
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
This, basically. I sometimes catch myself accidentally using the clan names for the broods.
Well not really. It's a way to say "Hey, no matter what you do, you're not going to just fix things with one little trip." It'd be like if in your future all the trees are gone, so you go back into the past to save the trees. How do you save your future? You bring a seedling from the past and plant it in your set timeline and fox your world the hard way. It's a good way to show the resolve of your characters when they see that what they did was pointless from a self-interest perspective and that they have to do hard work to fix things. I like it more than the paradox-inducing mess other methods give us.
Here's a time travel story using this plot:
Person's world is ravaged by cyborgs. Person goes back in time to set right what went wrong and save his world. He then goes back into the future to realize nothing changed and that changing further things in the past doesn't impact his future. He stays in the past and helps the characters to stop the cyborgs. He then takes that knowledge to his time period and stop the cyborgs there.
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Sarkhan was then born 1280 years later to revert Tarkir. This whole 1280 years has been 'fake' and existed only due to Ugin's magic. Tarkir then reverts back to its old self.
This somewhat explains the same people existing in 'fake' (Khans timeline) Tarkir. And it makes Sarkhan the first Planeswalker created by another Planeswalker since Karn.
It amuses me to imagine Ugin has been repeatedly save-scumming Tarkir until he gets his Good End of being alive.
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Sorin as far as we know dosn't have use necromancy outside of turning others into vampires and I don't count that as necromancy since Innistrad vampires are "living" and we don't even know if that work on a spirirt dragon. Plus death strips a planeswalker of thier spark, if Sorin could have brought Ugin back, we just have a planebound Legendary Creature- Spirirt Dragon Zombie, Ugin.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I wasn't particularly fond of Dragon Ball Z's time travel, personally.
I'm saying consider how long 7000+ years are and how much someone accomplishes in a normal lifespan. They could basically say Sorin knows X and it would be believable. I realize Ugin wouldn't have a spark but at the same time that's not necessarily a bad thing, from what we've seen thus far there's no reason he has to go to Zendikar and personally stop the Eldrazi. He tells Sorin it has to be the original three but he also has no idea what's been going on the whole time he was out. More specifically, he's opperating on knowledge that assumes the Mending didn't happen. Sarkhan could have brought Ugin back, studied under him, and assumed his role. I really got a sense that Sarkhan was going to transform into a much more interesting and pivotal character than he is. Instead it feels like he's going to continue being a follower while saying nothing but, "Dragon dragon dragon dragon. Dragon Dragon?"
Sorin uses his necromancy powers as a means to an end. Besides, we do not know how durable are these vampires. As far as the lore goes most of his vampires don't last very long. Turning Ugin into one may not be a very smart move.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Really not seeing how that matters lol.
It's an established time travel trope used in various media. I just chose perhaps the most popular example. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternateTimeline
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But this is exactly what happened to Tarkir. Both timelines still "exist" in a way (or else the shamans wouldn't be able to sense the alternate nows) it's just that Sarkhan jumped from one timeline into another and we, the reader, followed him on his journey.