My bad I misread the date for Karn and Sorin on the wiki, I thought Karn was older. And I wasn't very clear I lumped Lilian ,Nahiri and Ob all together in that list.
Well, we know Nahiri is at least 6000 since she was involved in the Eldrazi plot.
Ob is... much less clear. He feels older than Liliana at least, who is only about ~200+ or so.
Seems like a non-answer, I know, but the capabilities of even a bad player in this game are impressive when compared to the lore of many of the written characters, and we are planeswalkers after all.
I have often wondered how the story justifies some of the insane crap the Player planeswalker can do.
Oldwalkers couldn't deal (properly) with the Eldrazi, it took 3 of them just to seal them. No planeswalker alive is close to Oldwalker power (Bolas is probably close to one of the weaker oldwalker before). Eldrazi > everything alive right now.
You do know that sorin and ugin is 2 of thoose planeswalkers and they or atleast sorin is still alive.
Sorin is actully the second oldest living thing after nicol bolas
He doesnt have the power of before the mending.
Sorin is just a planeswalker as it is.
He was way stronger, he could just craft a world of his own and he messed a lot with Innistrad.
Planeswalkers currently are not able to create worlds themself, they are just able to walk the planes and have a bunch of magic tricks.
Nicol Bolas is a dragon, so physical strong and has the abilities to manipulate minds, even of other planeswalkers and pretty much any being with an mind to take over.
Eldrazi are just a force of destruction, which might be "sealed" but never truly defeated, no matter what, Eldrazi wont die.
Phyrexia is similiar, its not just about destruction, but about infection and "perfection" , they potentially "could" be destroyed and every last bit of the ink could be destroyed, but thats overall fairly unrealistic (but in an all out conflict, could happen).
In a conflict between Phyrexia and Eldrazi we can assume Phyrexia would lose, but not fight to the end. They would simply "run away" and spread somewhere else, as the Eldrazi are not really chasing the victims to the last, they consume them, and keep going more slowly but with an unstoppable approach.
Powerwise Eldrazi will win, but Phyrexia is quicker and can outgrow any army if they can simply spread over multiple planes.
Nicol Bolas on the other hand is a special single being. As a planeswalker he is able to get to any point and start to manipulate anything everywhere. If he has a plan, he doesnt need to speed up, he can just let it grow and resolve over year and ages ; while growing stronger and stronger, by knowledge and agents.
However, Nicol Bolas isnt really about a direct conflict to the death if he doesnt know he can and will win, hes not going to fight just to die ; he will allways run away before that happens, and is totally capable to do so.
That said all 3 of the big threats are quite unlikely to ever be truly defeated and they probably wont really fight each other to extinction, so in the end they all run from the Eldrazi, but they just eat up slowly enough that the others can rebuild.
If you can seal the Eldrazi, its just a matter of time till that seal breaks. So even if it "looks" like you defeated them, you not really did.
Seems like a non-answer, I know, but the capabilities of even a bad player in this game are impressive when compared to the lore of many of the written characters, and we are planeswalkers after all.
I have often wondered how the story justifies some of the insane crap the Player planeswalker can do.
Simple, there's no urgent need to justify it (unless it will factor in the ongoing story or what not... which I doubt). The only flavor justification given to the player is that "Hey, you're a Planeswalker" that's it, doesn't mean that what players can actually do reflects on the flavor etc.
It's just too tricky to match the flavor to the gameplay aspects of Magic to a tee.
For one, can you actually expect the Planeswalkers you "summon" to agree on helping you with their abilities on the get go with just mana and stuff?
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Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
I remember an artist drawing a scale of all the possible stats-to-size ratio. What he missed out was Bolas. I think he, along with the Elder dragons and Ugin, are humongous.
Not sure when drawn to scale, will Bolas be as big as the Eldrazi.
I think the Eldrazi are definitely number 1. After that follows either Karn or Bolas, but I'm not entirely sure which is first runner up. The reason I choose those two is that they both have great power that isn't contingent on them being planeswalkers or mere wizards. Bolas also has the power of an Elder Dragon, and Karn has the Legacy Weapon. Which one of those attributes grants greater power is hard to say.
Bolas stats were given in a previous year's Duels of the Planeswalkers.
60 foot from head to tail.
60 foot wingspan.
60 ton weight.
While that's definitely believable, it also feels like they just threw numbers down. I don't exactly have something to compare Bolas to, but 60 tons seems kinda heavy for a dragon with his frame.
I remember an artist drawing a scale of all the possible stats-to-size ratio. What he missed out was Bolas. I think he, along with the Elder dragons and Ugin, are humongous.
Not sure when drawn to scale, will Bolas be as big as the Eldrazi.
Which also does a nice job of suggesting that Marit Lage is one of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse. (also is meant to be able to travel between planes like an Eldrazi does)
Bolas stats were given in a previous year's Duels of the Planeswalkers.
60 foot from head to tail.
60 foot wingspan.
60 ton weight.
While that's definitely believable, it also feels like they just threw numbers down. I don't exactly have something to compare Bolas to, but 60 tons seems kinda heavy for a dragon with his frame.
It's kind of cute putting 6/6/6 on demons and such, but I wish they didn't just throw that on Bolas' figures. I feel like tacking the mark of the beast on the biggest threat to the multiverse is pretty cheese. I hope I'm not the only one disappointed in the lack of creativity displayed here.
I would say it's definitely the Eldrazi. Keep in mind that their stats as cards only represent their powers when constrained by three dimensions. The Eldrazi transcend both time and space as we know it, and their true forms in the Blind Eternities can scarcely be comprehended, much less measured by any metric we may have.
It's also worth noting that the Eldrazi are the only known entities that can survive in the Blind Eternities for extended periods of time - heck, they LIVE in the Blind Eternities. That's probably where they first came to be.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Emrakul has the most destructive potential in that it just goes around and eats Planes, but she doesn't really seem to do anything apart from act on instinct
Nicol Bolas is less powerful, but by virtue of his centuries of planning and experience he is probably the most dangerous person in the multiverse.
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"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
I remember an artist drawing a scale of all the possible stats-to-size ratio. What he missed out was Bolas. I think he, along with the Elder dragons and Ugin, are humongous.
Not sure when drawn to scale, will Bolas be as big as the Eldrazi.
Which also does a nice job of suggesting that Marit Lage is one of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse. (also is meant to be able to travel between planes like an Eldrazi does)
I don't think power and toughness on the card are supposed to correspond to physical size. Emrakul is the size of a significant landmass.
The Eldrazi are very similar to what the Dread are in the Raymond E. Feist Midkemia Fantasy series. Not to spoil anything for those who haven't read the whole saga:
The following is a revelation from the very final book of this whole saga so really don't read on if you want to still read those books. In the Midkemia saga, the Dread are a 'force of chaos' that ruled before there was anything to rule. The coming of the universe and its patterns of order and defiance of entropy are at constant conflict with the nature of the dread. It is a somewhat intelligent being, which moves itself upward on the planes of reality and slowly consumes them, returning them to a state of perfect chaos (or 'great freeze' as astronomists call it). The dread are akin to a sentient being that existed before the big bang, before space and time existed and only when there is just, well, 'nothing'.
The Eldrazi are extremely similar, in that they are home to the Blind Eternities, which can only be described as regions of material and energetic chaos between the regions of order that are called planes. The Eldrazi are upset by the existence of the planes, as it disrupts their world, and that is why they consume them, just like the Dread. If I take the elements of the one fantasy towards the other, it could be that the Eldrazi are older than the first plane, and are the original inhabitants of the multiverse before some kind of other universal force initiated the creation of the planes.
Now that I've got that out of the way, they are definitely the most powerful beings out there.
Akki_Akki like this, it also makes the Eldrazi appear extremely red. As if the Multiverse is effectively just chaos (R) and the Eldrazi simply lived there, then that would make the very existence of planes a form of structure that would inhibit (W) the Eldrazi in some way who then seek to destroy these structures. That might also make their actions short sighted responses that are driven by destructive impulses as they that only live in the moment (R). Which if they are the most powerful entities, the Eldrazi Titans, that would make them also a pure R villain.
As a pure R entity like Akki_Akki, Akki_Akki just simply wants to do what it wants to do because Akki_Akki doesn't like restrictions. Akki_Akki wants the freedom to do whatever Akki_Akki pleases.
Quote from Seeing Red by Mark Rosewater »
Each color's philosophy revolves around how it sees the world. So how does red see the world? What does red value? To red, life is the ultimate adventure. Red feels that living life to its fullest means taking advantage of every opportunity. And what better means to drive this goal than one's own emotions? Red acts on its gut and follows its heart. If red is happy, it celebrates. If red is sad, it cries. If red is angry, it smashes things. Life is very simple for red. It does what it feels.
To accomplish its goal, red uses action. If something is preventing you from doing what you want, knock it out of the way. If it comes back? Eh, blow it up. Red is a big proponent of force. If you want something to change, make it happen. Not later, now!
While on the surface red's goals might seem similar to black's there are some important differences. Black's desire to do what it wants is driven by a quest for power. Black doesn't care if others are restricted. As long as it as an individual can do what it wants, black is happy. Red, on the other hand, believes that everyone has the right to do what it wants. Red will act to break down barriers that don't necessarily affect it personally merely because it doesn't like their existence.
In addition, while black is very solitary, red can be very social. Red follows its emotions. These emotions include love, lust, camaraderie, and friendship. Red cares about others. At least the ones to which it has some emotional ties. And red will go to great lengths to help or protect its loved ones. This doesn't mean that red isn't somewhat selfish. Emotions, by their very nature, do put one's own needs first, but it does mean that red at times will think about others.
In the end, red's ultimate goal is freedom. Red wants everyone free to act however they wish. And red is more than willing to take action to ensure that this happens.
I've always wondered about the other massively big creature in recent Magic: Worldspine Wurm. What is it exactly? Any lore behind it? It's absurdly big (in size as well as P/T).
I've always wondered about the other massively big creature in recent Magic: Worldspine Wurm. What is it exactly? Any lore behind it? It's absurdly big (in size as well as P/T).
It's a wurm, which in conventional fantasy settings is described as "serpent-like wingless dragonkind species" and in magic as something...weird. Cuz some wurms are dragon-like and some are like larva or earthworms. It's nothing special just a fat stuff.
And remember, if I got a shield my toughtness is probably greater than a folk next to me that's got no shield. Yet it doesn't make me bigger so the chart with sizes the guy made is plain wrong to be said.
Albeit Marit-Lage was also said to be immensively powerful being.
Ob is... much less clear. He feels older than Liliana at least, who is only about ~200+ or so.
...the Player?
Seems like a non-answer, I know, but the capabilities of even a bad player in this game are impressive when compared to the lore of many of the written characters, and we are planeswalkers after all.
I have often wondered how the story justifies some of the insane crap the Player planeswalker can do.
He doesnt have the power of before the mending.
Sorin is just a planeswalker as it is.
He was way stronger, he could just craft a world of his own and he messed a lot with Innistrad.
Planeswalkers currently are not able to create worlds themself, they are just able to walk the planes and have a bunch of magic tricks.
Nicol Bolas is a dragon, so physical strong and has the abilities to manipulate minds, even of other planeswalkers and pretty much any being with an mind to take over.
Eldrazi are just a force of destruction, which might be "sealed" but never truly defeated, no matter what, Eldrazi wont die.
Phyrexia is similiar, its not just about destruction, but about infection and "perfection" , they potentially "could" be destroyed and every last bit of the ink could be destroyed, but thats overall fairly unrealistic (but in an all out conflict, could happen).
In a conflict between Phyrexia and Eldrazi we can assume Phyrexia would lose, but not fight to the end. They would simply "run away" and spread somewhere else, as the Eldrazi are not really chasing the victims to the last, they consume them, and keep going more slowly but with an unstoppable approach.
Powerwise Eldrazi will win, but Phyrexia is quicker and can outgrow any army if they can simply spread over multiple planes.
Nicol Bolas on the other hand is a special single being. As a planeswalker he is able to get to any point and start to manipulate anything everywhere. If he has a plan, he doesnt need to speed up, he can just let it grow and resolve over year and ages ; while growing stronger and stronger, by knowledge and agents.
However, Nicol Bolas isnt really about a direct conflict to the death if he doesnt know he can and will win, hes not going to fight just to die ; he will allways run away before that happens, and is totally capable to do so.
That said all 3 of the big threats are quite unlikely to ever be truly defeated and they probably wont really fight each other to extinction, so in the end they all run from the Eldrazi, but they just eat up slowly enough that the others can rebuild.
If you can seal the Eldrazi, its just a matter of time till that seal breaks. So even if it "looks" like you defeated them, you not really did.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Simple, there's no urgent need to justify it (unless it will factor in the ongoing story or what not... which I doubt). The only flavor justification given to the player is that "Hey, you're a Planeswalker" that's it, doesn't mean that what players can actually do reflects on the flavor etc.
It's just too tricky to match the flavor to the gameplay aspects of Magic to a tee.
For one, can you actually expect the Planeswalkers you "summon" to agree on helping you with their abilities on the get go with just mana and stuff?
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Not sure when drawn to scale, will Bolas be as big as the Eldrazi.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
60 foot from head to tail.
60 foot wingspan.
60 ton weight.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
With the caveat that he, in fact, can change shape and size.
That's kind of funny.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
He turned himself into a child during Alara.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
While that's definitely believable, it also feels like they just threw numbers down. I don't exactly have something to compare Bolas to, but 60 tons seems kinda heavy for a dragon with his frame.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
For reference, I found the picture
EDIT: I looked up the list of who's who:
Germ Token (0/0)
Icatian Javelineers (1/1),
Grizzly Bears (2/2),
Great Sable Stag (3/3),
Brion Stoutarm (4/4),
Baneslayer Angel (5/5),
Inferno Titan (6/6),
Lord of the Pit (7/7),
Lorthos, the Tidemaker (8/8),
Devouring Strossus (9/9),
Progenitus (10/10),
Darksteel Colossus (11/11),
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (12/12),
Krosan Cloudscraper (13/13),
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (15/15),
Marit Lage (20/20),
Which also does a nice job of suggesting that Marit Lage is one of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse. (also is meant to be able to travel between planes like an Eldrazi does)
It's kind of cute putting 6/6/6 on demons and such, but I wish they didn't just throw that on Bolas' figures. I feel like tacking the mark of the beast on the biggest threat to the multiverse is pretty cheese. I hope I'm not the only one disappointed in the lack of creativity displayed here.
360-cube - Suggestions welcome!
It's also worth noting that the Eldrazi are the only known entities that can survive in the Blind Eternities for extended periods of time - heck, they LIVE in the Blind Eternities. That's probably where they first came to be.
Nicol Bolas is less powerful, but by virtue of his centuries of planning and experience he is probably the most dangerous person in the multiverse.
-Anonymous
I don't think power and toughness on the card are supposed to correspond to physical size. Emrakul is the size of a significant landmass.
In contrast, I feel that the plane of Innistrad is pretty small, considering that Avacyn flies around slaying the wicked.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Akki_Akki like this, it also makes the Eldrazi appear extremely red. As if the Multiverse is effectively just chaos (R) and the Eldrazi simply lived there, then that would make the very existence of planes a form of structure that would inhibit (W) the Eldrazi in some way who then seek to destroy these structures. That might also make their actions short sighted responses that are driven by destructive impulses as they that only live in the moment (R). Which if they are the most powerful entities, the Eldrazi Titans, that would make them also a pure R villain.
As a pure R entity like Akki_Akki, Akki_Akki just simply wants to do what it wants to do because Akki_Akki doesn't like restrictions. Akki_Akki wants the freedom to do whatever Akki_Akki pleases.
It's a wurm, which in conventional fantasy settings is described as "serpent-like wingless dragonkind species" and in magic as something...weird. Cuz some wurms are dragon-like and some are like larva or earthworms. It's nothing special just a fat stuff.
And remember, if I got a shield my toughtness is probably greater than a folk next to me that's got no shield. Yet it doesn't make me bigger so the chart with sizes the guy made is plain wrong to be said.
Albeit Marit-Lage was also said to be immensively powerful being.
Kozilek/Ulamog
Bolas/Ugin
Karn/Sorin
BG Garruk/Liliana w/ Veil
Seriously, Garruk's up there. He has no trouble taking out other 'walkers, especially as the Apex Predator.
Your mods are terrified of me.