What distinguishes the kor from humans, aside from their albinism? Is there some sort of esoteric ancestry at work that gives males their barbels, do they prefer to explore territories that are too unstable for humans...?
Something I've been wondering since we saw the kor without the elongated skulls and all from Rath.
The Kor are another species altogether, just like elves - which look even less distinct from humans, for that matter. Their barbels are fleshy, their physique more slim and slender, their skulls slightly longer.
It's less pronounced than the Rathi kor, but Zendikari kor do have more elongated skulls and limbs than humans do. I'd imagine they may also have sharper senses and reflexes than an average human, since their culture revolves so much around activities like climbing and rope-throwing that require a high degree of dexterity and hand-eye coordination.
Maybe lighter, more avian bones to make them better climbers? Do we know where the kor come from? Going all the way back, elves are basically nature spirits, so its easy to accept that they are born from the wilderness. Would elves, kor, goblins and dwarves share a common ancestor?
Maybe lighter, more avian bones to make them better climbers? Do we know where the kor come from? Going all the way back, elves are basically nature spirits, so its easy to accept that they are born from the wilderness. Would elves, kor, goblins and dwarves share a common ancestor?
okay, to start with, elves in magic aren't nature spirits. Just... have to get that out there first.
But no, it is unlikely they all share a common ancestor. Some excuse could be made that elves and humans might, since they can interbreed without any magical influence, but all the rest of those listed cannot as far as we are aware.
It should be noted, as an aside, that the Rathi kor weren't baseline kor either, but had mutated because of their diet (feeding exclusively off creatures that lived in the aetherstorm clouds that blanketed Rath). Anyways, from a meta perspective, the kor weren't created from any outside inspiration.
In actuality the concept of a "common ancestor" becomes pretty moot in a fantasy setting anyway. I mean, if we want to get technical, there needs to be some way to explain that Kor, Dwarves and Elves are so similar to humans, wether there is a biological or a metaphysical multiverse-subconsciousness yadda-yadda reason, but it seems like overkill to try to reationalize everything in a fantasy setting.
^What makes it moot? It seems like a good way to explain those similarities, or add to the Zendikar kor lore. They feel very underdeveloped, especially for what's intended to be a white characteristic race for the setting. Elves, goblins, even merfolk and vampires all have a decent bit of lore. All we have for the kor is that they enjoy climbing.
Well, if you want to go that route, how do you explain the origins of merfolk that feature both mammal and fish characteristics. Or how goblins are fundamentally different biologically speaking from plane to plane. What are minotaurs and satyrs that are hybrids between humans and bovines/goats. As soon as you apply "magical" origin stories for one of them the whole thing becomes moot, because that'll be the go to answer.
Maybe Kor did descend from humans, but not through natural, biological means, rendering the entire concept of ancestry, as we know it, moot.
Well, if you want to go that route, how do you explain the origins of merfolk that feature both mammal and fish characteristics. Or how goblins are fundamentally different biologically speaking from plane to plane. What are minotaurs and satyrs that are hybrids between humans and bovines/goats. As soon as you apply "magical" origin stories for one of them the whole thing becomes moot, because that'll be the go to answer.
Maybe Kor did descend from humans, but not through natural, biological means, rendering the entire concept of ancestry, as we know it, moot.
Why would that make it a go-to answer? Your example is looking at a series of planes separated by the chaotic fabric of creation and existence, infinite possibilities etc. My only answer is that I would lump the stranger hybrids, like the satyrs and minotaurs, as being different species of plane-bound races, born from the chemical interactions of the stuff that makes up the Blind Eternities whose souls, or consciousness is based in a principle associated with the creature's primary mana type. Similarly, I would say that the Eldrazi are essentially massive maintenance engines that devour planes and return the planes' raw composition to the multiverse, where new planes can come into existence. Otherwise, the presence of satyrs and minotaurs becomes more a question of whether these were originally created to serve a function and then gained agency, or if it is just including mainstays of a plane's source real-world inspiration simply "because."
I would link a plane's little iconics to that plane's big iconics. I will refer to merfolk and goblins in response to your example. Feel free to mention any other little iconics and I'd be happy to give my thoughts.
Goblins - viashino who employ the aspects of red that favor impulse and creativity to take on more humanlike visages (mostly, New Mirrodin's are a bit different) to mock the dragons and viashino. New Mirrodin's have a lizardlike appearance. Also, the dragonlike Patron of the Akki was said to resemble a fetal akki. Merfolk - sea serpents that use the temporal manipulation elements of blue (library manipulation elements like Telling Time or Ponder) to take on a more compact form that can interact with water dwellers and land dwellers in order to outwit the big blue krakens. While both of my examples, the goblins and the merfolk, are employing their core colors in taking on their identity, it comes down to switching on and off specific genes in order to alter their physiologies. In the case of merfolk, blue's control gives them a more focused, appearance whereas the chaotic spontaneity of red is what gives rise to goblins of varying sizes, ear/nose shapes etc. Tying this event is further tied into the theory of evolution when you consider that the first of the goblins and merfolk would've appeared long ago across the various planes, allowing the gene pool to spread. The knowledge of how to activate/deactivate genes with mana does present a problem, until you accept that such knowledge would be kept under tight guard in most academic circles, or even lost to the ages if you want to say some other big iconic tried to take advantage of a disenfranchised little iconic in a spat against another big iconic.
It employs some basic science, and some fiction and could be called science fiction, though that would discount the fantasy elements blended in. I like it, but am pretty biased.
Game? I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. I'm answering Flisch, and inviting further debate. To reiterate my original post, I'm wondering what, in terms of culture or genetics, distinguishes the Kor from Zendikar's humans. The Kor are my favorite little white characteristic race, given their strange appearance. I just can't help but wonder what aspects of White we can best apply to the Kor to differentiate them from the human creature type.
Game? I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. I'm answering Flisch, and inviting further debate.
The further debate is all predicated upon coming up with speculation to justify different anatomy across species, and that is NOT the kind of speculation we want to encourage.
To reiterate my original post, I'm wondering what, in terms of culture or genetics, distinguishes the Kor from Zendikar's humans. The Kor are my favorite little white characteristic race, given their strange appearance. I just can't help but wonder what aspects of White we can best apply to the Kor to differentiate them from the human creature type.
The thing is, Flisch is right. In terms of genetics, there's not much meaningful point in opening that can of worms.
Now culture is another matter that has at least some merit in discussion.
I wouldn't say it is entirely without merit (I can think of at least one fantasy series that touches on genetic differences between similar and dissimilar races, so it is acceptable within our genre; out of curiosity, why would this line of speculation be discouraged?), but what aspects of Kor culture would you say distinguish them from humans, or would make them seem alien to humans?
out of curiosity, why would this line of speculation be discouraged?
Mostly because it largely has no legitimacy to base it off of, which leads to nothing more than fanon and headcanon which, though possibly fun to talk about, doesn't actually bring us any closer to understanding anything. There's nothing there that we can latch onto to base that speculation off of.
The sole time Magic has ever dealt with genetics (as genetics that we understand rather than pseudo science fantasy jargon) is with Urza and the Bloodlines project.
what aspects of Kor culture would you say distinguish them from humans, or would make them seem alien to humans?
Well, for one thing, there's the emphasis on minimal survivalist living as well as a deep attachment to the land not as property, but as... almost a member of the family. Aside from that, there's a rather more severe and barbaric sense of morality that the kor seem to possess, at least in so far as we know it to be true on Zendikar.
I feel like the science, pick your field, adds a bit more legitimacy to the presence of widely varied races, but as you say it is neither here no there for this setting, though I do wish it were. I think taking away the uniqueness of magic itself, making it something that can work for anyone, be it the oppressed city folk living in the shadow of the Cabal Patriarch to the Patriarch himself, opens the setting up for more varied, slightly unpredictable stories. Perhaps murking the lines between the maybe they exist/maybe they don't gods like Gaea by presenting them as mortals with an exceptionally powerful grasp on the science of mana channeling and spellslinging...there's also an interesting angle there for something touching on ethics in field research, and the publishing scandals that arise when someone massages the data to get some financial backing from one of the major corporations. Forgive me for rambling. I grew up on the magic novels, and would love to see them grow a bit, too, rather than make up my own plots for the sets/characters. I'd like to feel the same sort of thrill now, that I did years ago when I first read about Rith sowing the seeds for the Primevals' return, or Urza's betrayal in Phyrexia.
As to the kor, barbaric as in Tivadar's Crusade barbaric? I don't recall much of the kor from the Zendikar novel, only the one kor witch and her goblin friend.
I feel like the science, pick your field, adds a bit more legitimacy to the presence of widely varied races, but as you say it is neither here no there for this setting, though I do wish it were. I think taking away the uniqueness of magic itself, making it something that can work for anyone, be it the oppressed city folk living in the shadow of the Cabal Patriarch to the Patriarch himself, opens the setting up for more varied, slightly unpredictable stories.
But... everyone IS capable of it. There's nothing stopping people from wielding magic, really, aside from the socio-economic group you were born into, but even then, that's the difference between a wizard and someone who casts more from emotional connections, like a shaman or druid.
Perhaps murking the lines between the maybe they exist/maybe they don't gods like Gaea by presenting them as mortals with an exceptionally powerful grasp on the science of mana channeling and spellslinging...there's also an interesting angle there for something touching on ethics in field research, and the publishing scandals that arise when someone massages the data to get some financial backing from one of the major corporations. Forgive me for rambling.
Please just... recognize this isn't the place for it. In general, it just doesn't behoove us to look at magic as if it were science, and trying to EXPLAIN it ultimately robs it of the mystique. You literally explain the magic away.
I grew up on the magic novels, and would love to see them grow a bit, too, rather than make up my own plots for the sets/characters. I'd like to feel the same sort of thrill now, that I did years ago when I first read about Rith sowing the seeds for the Primevals' return, or Urza's betrayal in Phyrexia.
I do understand that. Don't mistake me there.
We're just very much in a different era of fiction now.
As to the kor, barbaric as in Tivadar's Crusade barbaric? I don't recall much of the kor from the Zendikar novel, only the one kor witch and her goblin friend.
The kor witch was a perfect example of such.
She was sacrificed to the wilds as a baby for superstitious reasons and just didn't have the decency to die.
Aside from that, there is a brutal pragmatism which means they are less likely to treat medical problems that are too difficult and they'll just finish the job rather than let the weak link drag the chain down.
I think taking away the uniqueness of magic itself, making it something that can work for anyone, be it the oppressed city folk living in the shadow of the Cabal Patriarch to the Patriarch himself, opens the setting up for more varied, slightly unpredictable stories
But that's what makes MTG so unique in a world of fantasy settings where genetics are the only thing that matters. In MTG, Magic is a natural, omnipresent feature of the universe, and everyone and everything can use it (albeit not everyone is a good spell crafter, of course).
Frankly, fantasy settings where genetics matter are bother completely and utterly immoral (hint: thinking that genetics matter is a bad thing in the real world for a reason) and because it offers far more creativity than "this person is inherently blessed by the universe and that person is just a normal kid". If you want eugenics, go to LOTR.
^You didn't see the rest of our conversation, but the immorality lies with the individuals in power and how they use the science. Genetics as I see them in a fantasy setting take the power from the Chosen One/Few and make it readily available to all...the ability to draw mana is resides within every individual and is activated by the binding of certain chemical messengers produced during the fight or flight response. Individuals with any amount of power may attempt to restrict access to those scenarios that trigger the fight or flight response sufficient enough for the production and release of those chemical messengers. The science, the genetics, are entirely neutral; it is the individual who is immoral, moral, amoral etc.
If being a planeswalker is genetic, then there must be a particular, recessive, extremely recessive, gene expressed in the planeswalker at birth. We don't know that specifically, so it is a pointless tangent.
Even if it is a recessive gene, that'd mean that the offspring of two planesalkers would always be a planeswalker.
Basically, we do not know how the spark is distributed, but it does not appear to be genetic at all.
We have explicit statements from Creative specifically stating that genetics play no part in planeswalkers at all.
It's attached to the metaphysics of the soul (whatever those happen to be) and NOTHING physical at all influences spark distribution.
@TIC: That... That isn't how mana bonding works. At all.
It's ALSO a spiritual thing.
Frankly, fantasy settings where genetics matter are bother completely and utterly immoral
Then Magic is completely and utterly immoral ;).
Hint hint: Being a Planeswalker is genetic. Not in the sense that it's hereditary, but in the sense that it's predetermined at birth.
As pointed by others before, the spark isn't genetic. While its distribution is an inherent event tied to the nature of the soul, people can exchange sparks to other people, and as hinted by Maro's answer on Blue's opinion of it, it can possibly be replicated.
Even if it is a recessive gene, that'd mean that the offspring of two planesalkers would always be a planeswalker.
Basically, we do not know how the spark is distributed, but it does not appear to be genetic at all.
We have explicit statements from Creative specifically stating that genetics play no part in planeswalkers at all.
It's attached to the metaphysics of the soul (whatever those happen to be) and NOTHING physical at all influences spark distribution.
Isn't that what I said though? While we do not know the details about how the spark is distributed, we do know that it cannot be genetic.
@TIC: That... That isn't how mana bonding works. At all.
It's ALSO a spiritual thing.
I know, that statement is a summary of the conversation that I had continued with Mull via PM (though if you read it carefully, you will see that I don't say anything about bonding with mana of a particular color or colors, but rather the ability to use mana. This does not take the place of favoring one color of mana over another based on personal or spiritual preferences). The new guy was touching on an aspect of out discussion, so I threw out a summary in case he was interested.
Even if it is a recessive gene, that'd mean that the offspring of two planesalkers would always be a planeswalker.
Basically, we do not know how the spark is distributed, but it does not appear to be genetic at all.
We have explicit statements from Creative specifically stating that genetics play no part in planeswalkers at all.
It's attached to the metaphysics of the soul (whatever those happen to be) and NOTHING physical at all influences spark distribution.
Isn't that what I said though? While we do not know the details about how the spark is distributed, we do know that it cannot be genetic.
Oh, I wasn't disagreeing, I was just further elaborating to strengthen our position.
I know, that statement is a summary of the conversation that I had continued with Mull via PM (though if you read it carefully, you will see that I don't say anything about bonding with mana of a particular color or colors, but rather the ability to use mana. This does not take the place of favoring one color of mana over another based on personal or spiritual preferences). The new guy was touching on an aspect of out discussion, so I threw out a summary in case he was interested.
But the things you said are still inaccurate and attempt to explain a spiritual/mental process. It has nothing to do with body chemistry or any other similar principles.
It is all headcannon I had been using in my debate with Mull. Though, I do wonder why we haven't seen anyone, a mage or planeswalker, trying to discover how mana bonds work. The state of mind and body needed to form the bonds, whatever biochemical processes are active during the formation of the mana bond seem like ripe research pursuits for a planeswalker or mage character.
Something I've been wondering since we saw the kor without the elongated skulls and all from Rath.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
okay, to start with, elves in magic aren't nature spirits. Just... have to get that out there first.
But no, it is unlikely they all share a common ancestor. Some excuse could be made that elves and humans might, since they can interbreed without any magical influence, but all the rest of those listed cannot as far as we are aware.
It should be noted, as an aside, that the Rathi kor weren't baseline kor either, but had mutated because of their diet (feeding exclusively off creatures that lived in the aetherstorm clouds that blanketed Rath). Anyways, from a meta perspective, the kor weren't created from any outside inspiration.
Maybe Kor did descend from humans, but not through natural, biological means, rendering the entire concept of ancestry, as we know it, moot.
Why would that make it a go-to answer? Your example is looking at a series of planes separated by the chaotic fabric of creation and existence, infinite possibilities etc. My only answer is that I would lump the stranger hybrids, like the satyrs and minotaurs, as being different species of plane-bound races, born from the chemical interactions of the stuff that makes up the Blind Eternities whose souls, or consciousness is based in a principle associated with the creature's primary mana type. Similarly, I would say that the Eldrazi are essentially massive maintenance engines that devour planes and return the planes' raw composition to the multiverse, where new planes can come into existence. Otherwise, the presence of satyrs and minotaurs becomes more a question of whether these were originally created to serve a function and then gained agency, or if it is just including mainstays of a plane's source real-world inspiration simply "because."
I would link a plane's little iconics to that plane's big iconics. I will refer to merfolk and goblins in response to your example. Feel free to mention any other little iconics and I'd be happy to give my thoughts.
Goblins - viashino who employ the aspects of red that favor impulse and creativity to take on more humanlike visages (mostly, New Mirrodin's are a bit different) to mock the dragons and viashino. New Mirrodin's have a lizardlike appearance. Also, the dragonlike Patron of the Akki was said to resemble a fetal akki. Merfolk - sea serpents that use the temporal manipulation elements of blue (library manipulation elements like Telling Time or Ponder) to take on a more compact form that can interact with water dwellers and land dwellers in order to outwit the big blue krakens. While both of my examples, the goblins and the merfolk, are employing their core colors in taking on their identity, it comes down to switching on and off specific genes in order to alter their physiologies. In the case of merfolk, blue's control gives them a more focused, appearance whereas the chaotic spontaneity of red is what gives rise to goblins of varying sizes, ear/nose shapes etc. Tying this event is further tied into the theory of evolution when you consider that the first of the goblins and merfolk would've appeared long ago across the various planes, allowing the gene pool to spread. The knowledge of how to activate/deactivate genes with mana does present a problem, until you accept that such knowledge would be kept under tight guard in most academic circles, or even lost to the ages if you want to say some other big iconic tried to take advantage of a disenfranchised little iconic in a spat against another big iconic.
It employs some basic science, and some fiction and could be called science fiction, though that would discount the fantasy elements blended in. I like it, but am pretty biased.
Game? I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. I'm answering Flisch, and inviting further debate. To reiterate my original post, I'm wondering what, in terms of culture or genetics, distinguishes the Kor from Zendikar's humans. The Kor are my favorite little white characteristic race, given their strange appearance. I just can't help but wonder what aspects of White we can best apply to the Kor to differentiate them from the human creature type.
The thing is, Flisch is right. In terms of genetics, there's not much meaningful point in opening that can of worms.
Now culture is another matter that has at least some merit in discussion.
The sole time Magic has ever dealt with genetics (as genetics that we understand rather than pseudo science fantasy jargon) is with Urza and the Bloodlines project.
Well, for one thing, there's the emphasis on minimal survivalist living as well as a deep attachment to the land not as property, but as... almost a member of the family. Aside from that, there's a rather more severe and barbaric sense of morality that the kor seem to possess, at least in so far as we know it to be true on Zendikar.
As to the kor, barbaric as in Tivadar's Crusade barbaric? I don't recall much of the kor from the Zendikar novel, only the one kor witch and her goblin friend.
But... everyone IS capable of it. There's nothing stopping people from wielding magic, really, aside from the socio-economic group you were born into, but even then, that's the difference between a wizard and someone who casts more from emotional connections, like a shaman or druid.
Please just... recognize this isn't the place for it. In general, it just doesn't behoove us to look at magic as if it were science, and trying to EXPLAIN it ultimately robs it of the mystique. You literally explain the magic away.
I do understand that. Don't mistake me there.
We're just very much in a different era of fiction now.
The kor witch was a perfect example of such.
She was sacrificed to the wilds as a baby for superstitious reasons and just didn't have the decency to die.
Aside from that, there is a brutal pragmatism which means they are less likely to treat medical problems that are too difficult and they'll just finish the job rather than let the weak link drag the chain down.
But that's what makes MTG so unique in a world of fantasy settings where genetics are the only thing that matters. In MTG, Magic is a natural, omnipresent feature of the universe, and everyone and everything can use it (albeit not everyone is a good spell crafter, of course).
Frankly, fantasy settings where genetics matter are bother completely and utterly immoral (hint: thinking that genetics matter is a bad thing in the real world for a reason) and because it offers far more creativity than "this person is inherently blessed by the universe and that person is just a normal kid". If you want eugenics, go to LOTR.
If being a planeswalker is genetic, then there must be a particular, recessive, extremely recessive, gene expressed in the planeswalker at birth. We don't know that specifically, so it is a pointless tangent.
Basically, we do not know how the spark is distributed, but it does not appear to be genetic at all.
It's attached to the metaphysics of the soul (whatever those happen to be) and NOTHING physical at all influences spark distribution.
@TIC: That... That isn't how mana bonding works. At all.
It's ALSO a spiritual thing.
As pointed by others before, the spark isn't genetic. While its distribution is an inherent event tied to the nature of the soul, people can exchange sparks to other people, and as hinted by Maro's answer on Blue's opinion of it, it can possibly be replicated.
Isn't that what I said though? While we do not know the details about how the spark is distributed, we do know that it cannot be genetic.
I know, that statement is a summary of the conversation that I had continued with Mull via PM (though if you read it carefully, you will see that I don't say anything about bonding with mana of a particular color or colors, but rather the ability to use mana. This does not take the place of favoring one color of mana over another based on personal or spiritual preferences). The new guy was touching on an aspect of out discussion, so I threw out a summary in case he was interested.
But the things you said are still inaccurate and attempt to explain a spiritual/mental process. It has nothing to do with body chemistry or any other similar principles.
Your theory is inherently flawed.