Post this on somewhere else before. Got no rational answers.
Bolas is old right? Time is his enemy. He wants to restore his youth and power. He is actively searching methods to achieve such goals. He tried to absorb conflux but got stopped by Ajain.
Now we know on Theros gods exist. And planeswalker can become a god. Xenagos did it. He is not as smart as bolas. So why bolas not to try this becoming a god thing in the first place?
I know the boring stock answer that bolas thinks himself is above those gods on Theros. I don't find that is convincing.
Sure bolas is arrogant enough to believe himself is above gods. But he is literally running out of time. Now there is solution for him. Why not take it? We can see Theros gods are more powerful than post mending planeswalkers. Otherwise Xenagos would not try it. Why not become a god to buy himself sometime? It works better than tear apart a plane to absorb its Essenes.
I am by no way knowledgeable of the story line but I feel like the gods of Theros are stuck there on Theros, so Nicol would be stuck on a plane that doesn't seem like one he would personally enjoy.
Commander: UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre 1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl BG Meren's grinder
One more question : is Xenagos able to planeswalk after his Ascension? Theros gods are stuck because they are not planeswalker before they were god. What if a planeswalker become a god? He can plansewalk to other planes as normal planeswalker and come back to Theros as a god? Just wondering.
Even if becoming a god means lost of sparks I will take the opportunity and use the endless time I have to figure out a way to regain spark.
Of course bolas will not be a part of future story if this happens. I know wotc want to save bolas for future plots.
It is unknown whether a planeswalking Theros god would still have godlike powers on other planes. Obviously we are not likely to find out too soon as Xenagos died before testing this (no such trip has been mentioned in the e-books or Uncharted Realms).
I doubt Bolas would bother becoming a god on Theros if he thought he couldn't bring those powers outside that plane.
Theros is but one plane. Nicol Bolas is so ancient and has been a PW for so long that his plans are very elaborate. He has seen so many worlds and commanded such powerful magic that it would be strange to settle for an eternity on one single plane when he once was essentially a multiverse god before that. I don't think Nicol Bolas is one to settle or limit himself. He wants to reclaim everything he once had entirely. Once anyone has had a taste of power that great knowing it was once possible, they couldn't be satisfied with anything less.
Anyway I'm wondering why OP is under the impression that Bolas is on the brink of dying of old age.I feel like he's basically immortal already.
During Alara Unbroken, much ado was given to how cranky Bolas was because he was feeling his age.
Given... that was before he stuck a crazy straw into the Maelstrom and chugged that sucker, so he sure as heck isn't feeling it now. (Better living through binge consumption.... wait, that can't be right...)
Anyway I'm wondering why OP is under the impression that Bolas is on the brink of dying of old age.I feel like he's basically immortal already.
During Alara Unbroken, much ado was given to how cranky Bolas was because he was feeling his age.
Given... that was before he stuck a crazy straw into the Maelstrom and chugged that sucker, so he sure as heck isn't feeling it now. (Better living through binge consumption.... wait, that can't be right...)
Even if he was still feeling his age... for an Elder Dragon, that would give him what, another century or more to plot and plan with a mind still superior to everyone else's?
No need to try the hasty "Try Becoming a God" plan (that wouldn't give him what he wants anyway).
Elder Dragon able to manipulate events in countless planes, but suffering from old age >>> God of a single plane that Needs Prayer Badly.
As Barinellos mentioned, in Alara cycle, the main goal of Bolas is to regain immortality which is foiled by Ajani. He is no longer immortal long ago. All his elder dragon brothers are long died, he will soon join them since his spark changed.
Besides that, almost every introduction about current planeswalkers given by WOTC mentioned Bolas also mentioned his old age and he is running out of time. I remember one article on Wizards website which gives the status of current walkers mentioned this. Even the Duel of planeswalker game mentioned this. It gives me the impression that fear of dying of old age is what driving Bolas.
Since when the hype about Bolas began to build to such a level?
He is only briefly introduced in Legends. He wasn’t even mentioned as a planeswalker. I don’t remember any story mentioned bolas even a little bit 14 years ago when I first start to play magic.
Then after Yawgmoth left a power vacuum, suddenly bolas has been resurrected as the ultimate bad guy. Now everyone says how powerful Bolas is even to a degree Bolas is better than an actual god? Unbelievable.
In mythology, is the average dragon stronger than the average human? Why yes, yes he is. It would come to reason, therefore, that an Elder Dragon planeswalker would be stronger than a human planeswalker. Ok, that doesn't compare to a god....until you remember that pre-Mending planeswalkers were ridiculously powerful, some even being revered as gods (such as in the case of Freyalise or Serra). Nicol Bolas wouldn't become a god because it's not the same power. He wants more than just immortality, really. He wants EVERYTHING that his spark once was, every last bit of immeasurable power. Gods clearly can be "destroyed" if people stop believing in them. It's what Ajani currently plans to do to get rid of Heliod, and it's happened with other forgotten gods, both major and minor, according to Kruphix and Ashiok's research on the city-god that Ephara consumed.
Nicol Bolas wants all his power back, and the gods simply don't have the same power. Hell, Elspeth was just able to completely stop Heliod evaporating her with Khrusor, which is considered the strongest weapon in Theros. Nicol Bolas wouldn't have any semblance to any Theran dragon, so he'd already look rather odd to any Theran denizen, AND he'd have to get a bunch of people to believe in him to even count as a god. He wouldn't even have the power of the "head god", and if that said power isn't enough to deal with a post-Mending planeswalker, it isn't enough for the dragon. Pre-Mending walkers are considered to be the strongest beings to ever exist in the Multiverse. That's why being a god on Theros just isn't enough, not to mention that as soon as he planeswalked out of Theros, all that power is gone when his connection to Nyx is severed.
As Barinellos mentioned, in Alara cycle, the main goal of Bolas is to regain immortality which is foiled by Ajani. He is no longer immortal long ago. All his elder dragon brothers are long died, he will soon join them since his spark changed.
Ajani didn't foil his plan. Ajani drove him off before he destroyed Alara, and all of that AFTER he consumed the vast majority of the Maelstrom.
It should also be noted that Bolas appears to have, according to his own words, KILLED the survivors of the Elder Dragon War who had lasted that long. (In essence, Chromium and Arcades died by other means.)
Since when the hype about Bolas began to build to such a level?
He is only briefly introduced in Legends. He wasn’t even mentioned as a planeswalker. I don’t remember any story mentioned bolas even a little bit 14 years ago when I first start to play magic.
Yes he was. In Legends II cycle, he was shown as a planeswalker, an enormously, staggeringly strong Planeswalker.
Then after Yawgmoth left a power vacuum, suddenly bolas has been resurrected as the ultimate bad guy. Now everyone says how powerful Bolas is even to a degree Bolas is better than an actual god? Unbelievable.
Yawgmoth wasn't all that people like to pretend he was either. Most of Yawgmoth's plans were thought up and executed by middle management in the Phyrexian hierarchy. Gix, Croag, and the other demons were the real brains behind things like the Sleeper Agents and the Planar Overlay.
In mythology, is the average dragon stronger than the average human? Why yes, yes he is. It would come to reason, therefore, that an Elder Dragon planeswalker would be stronger than a human planeswalker. Ok, that doesn't compare to a god....until you remember that pre-Mending planeswalkers were ridiculously powerful, some even being revered as gods (such as in the case of Freyalise or Serra). Nicol Bolas wouldn't become a god because it's not the same power. He wants more than just immortality, really. He wants EVERYTHING that his spark once was, every last bit of immeasurable power. Gods clearly can be "destroyed" if people stop believing in them. It's what Ajani currently plans to do to get rid of Heliod, and it's happened with other forgotten gods, both major and minor, according to Kruphix and Ashiok's research on the city-god that Ephara consumed.
Nicol Bolas wants all his power back, and the gods simply don't have the same power. Hell, Elspeth was just able to completely stop Heliod evaporating her with Khrusor, which is considered the strongest weapon in Theros. Nicol Bolas wouldn't have any semblance to any Theran dragon, so he'd already look rather odd to any Theran denizen, AND he'd have to get a bunch of people to believe in him to even count as a god. He wouldn't even have the power of the "head god", and if that said power isn't enough to deal with a post-Mending planeswalker, it isn't enough for the dragon. Pre-Mending walkers are considered to be the strongest beings to ever exist in the Multiverse. That's why being a god on Theros just isn't enough, not to mention that as soon as he planeswalked out of Theros, all that power is gone when his connection to Nyx is severed.
Best answer so far.
I'm a strong advocate for pre-mending walkers are insanely powerful. However I feel a trend that wotc is trying to narrow the gap between old walker and neowalker. The god like power of old walker is mentioned less and less. Now they are printing old walkers in commander 2014 which makes people make direct comparison between old and neo walkers. I know these cards doesn't represent the actual power of planeswalker. But for normal players who doesn't study the lore will easy take cards as reference of power. And they are building up Bolas, Jace more and more powerful.
The reason why I'm against Bolas's hype is also that I want to preserve the all powerful status of old walkers. In current lore Bolas is portrayed as the one single strongest being which render the mending Pointless . If a post mending Bolas is anywhere near his former self, no matter what he has been eating(planes, malestorms), then the gap between the two isn't that great.
I have this feeling as time goes by wotc will totally discard the difference between two types of planeswalkers.
I'm a strong advocate for pre-mending walkers are insanely powerful. However I feel a trend that wotc is trying to narrow the gap between old walker and neowalker. The god like power of old walker is mentioned less and less. Now they are printing old walkers in commander 2014 which makes people make direct comparison between old and neo walkers.
This is something particularly true of Ob Nixilis, because o the influence of the Chain Veil he became a demon.... but that just feels weird when you consider that his form was just a projection of his mind. Maybe there was some subconscious mind altering effects in play, but it very much doesn't match how we should be thinking of pre-mending walkers.
The reason why I'm against Bolas's hype is also that I want to preserve the all powerful status of old walkers. In current lore Bolas is portrayed as the one single strongest being which render the mending Pointless . If a post mending Bolas is anywhere near his former self, no matter what he has been eating(planes, malestorms), then the gap between the two isn't that great.
He is still far far below what he was at the height of his power.
Bolas was so strong that he did not move through the Eternities, they moved around him and if he appeared on a plane that had not been properly prepared before hand, it would CRACK that reality.
Bolas fought the first Planeswalker duel on Dominaria, a battle that took over a month and destroyed 2/3rds of a CONTINENT.
See, it goes into that idea golblin talked about. Bolas, even before he was a walker, was nearly as strong as an oldwalker to start with. The Elder Dragon Empire spanned dozens, possibly hundreds of planes before the war.
I have this feeling as time goes by wotc will totally discard the difference between two types of planeswalkers.
This is, however, a fair concern. Especially since Mark recently talked about how much he dislikes the idea that neowalkers are called that because they do not wield the same power as oldwalkers. He doesn't care for the fact that players make that distinction and would prefer everyone to just call them all planeswalkers as if there were no difference.
This is, however, a fair concern. Especially since Mark recently talked about how much he dislikes the idea that neowalkers are called that because they do not wield the same power as oldwalkers. He doesn't care for the fact that players make that distinction and would prefer everyone to just call them all planeswalkers as if there were no difference.
I think the power level of PWs should be established. Post-Mending PWs are weaker and frankly it only makes sense to commit to a distinction. The issue of returning to that power level is that PWs wouldn't be as interesting if they're excessively powerful. I would prefer if it was established that having a spark enhances the natural ability to wield magic of the being or mage beyond just acquiring mana bonds and experience by travel. That it allows for more potent magic. That it inherently grants them a bigger destiny in the multiverse beyond just walking from plane to plane. That Jace is a remarkable mind mage compared to others with similar magic because he is a PWs but not exclusively because he has experienced diverse magic from far flung worlds, but because of raw power enhanced by something others are not. The spark, say, focuses magic like a lens for a PW to wield. Experience should be something, IMO, that distinguishes PWs from each other but not from other sentient beings wielding magic too.
We don't know how Theros gods rank against current PWs. We do know they're a local phenomenon, and we do know Nicol Bolas as a being is probably a greater entity because even Kruphix was uncertain about whether or not the entire Theros pantheon could stop him, or the Eldrazi, or the Pharexians if they arrived on Theros. But Nicol Bolas is a greater entity compares to other PWs, let alone gods. When you're talking about an entire multiverse of worlds, Theros is just one pebble in the ocean. I mean Xenagos himself pursued the agenda he did upon learning this. They're a big deal on their turf but beyond their world, it's pointless.
Bolas is old right? Time is his enemy. He wants to restore his youth and power. He is actively searching methods to achieve such goals. He tried to absorb conflux but got stopped by Ajain.
Now we know on Theros gods exist. And planeswalker can become a god. Xenagos did it. He is not as smart as bolas. So why bolas not to try this becoming a god thing in the first place?
I know the boring stock answer that bolas thinks himself is above those gods on Theros. I don't find that is convincing.
Sure bolas is arrogant enough to believe himself is above gods. But he is literally running out of time. Now there is solution for him. Why not take it? We can see Theros gods are more powerful than post mending planeswalkers. Otherwise Xenagos would not try it. Why not become a god to buy himself sometime? It works better than tear apart a plane to absorb its Essenes.
UBG Tasigur, the lab enabler UR Planeswalker Control
UBRW Breya's personal box of combos BRW Vampire beats, by Dre
1 Karn, where all lands are command towers UBR Inalla's Venser lock
UBRGW Atog Atog contraption tribal WUB Xur's second chance
UGW Derivi, bird tribal R Brother's Yamazaki
BRG Prosh, the scourge of multiplayer GW Capt. Sisay's Deck Dumping Service
UB All Your Spells do Belong to Me UG Tapioca Pearl
BG Meren's grinder
Even if becoming a god means lost of sparks I will take the opportunity and use the endless time I have to figure out a way to regain spark.
Of course bolas will not be a part of future story if this happens. I know wotc want to save bolas for future plots.
It is unknown whether a planeswalking Theros god would still have godlike powers on other planes. Obviously we are not likely to find out too soon as Xenagos died before testing this (no such trip has been mentioned in the e-books or Uncharted Realms).
I doubt Bolas would bother becoming a god on Theros if he thought he couldn't bring those powers outside that plane.
What we do know is that one cannot planeswalk to or from Nyx as well, so that has all sorts of implications about Nyx's reach.
Edit: For the record, and to cut some of the discussion short, these were the answers previously given that Dhy found irrational.
http://community.wizards.com/forum/flavor-and-storylines/threads/4145371
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
No, he isn't.
No, they aren't.
Xenagos did not do it for power. He did to prove a point.
Actually, Bolas's Conflux plot worked way better than Xenagos's Nyx plot, as seen one of them is still alive and the other isn't.
Given... that was before he stuck a crazy straw into the Maelstrom and chugged that sucker, so he sure as heck isn't feeling it now. (Better living through binge consumption.... wait, that can't be right...)
Even if he was still feeling his age... for an Elder Dragon, that would give him what, another century or more to plot and plan with a mind still superior to everyone else's?
No need to try the hasty "Try Becoming a God" plan (that wouldn't give him what he wants anyway).
Elder Dragon able to manipulate events in countless planes, but suffering from old age >>> God of a single plane that Needs Prayer Badly.
Besides that, almost every introduction about current planeswalkers given by WOTC mentioned Bolas also mentioned his old age and he is running out of time. I remember one article on Wizards website which gives the status of current walkers mentioned this. Even the Duel of planeswalker game mentioned this. It gives me the impression that fear of dying of old age is what driving Bolas.
Since when the hype about Bolas began to build to such a level?
He is only briefly introduced in Legends. He wasn’t even mentioned as a planeswalker. I don’t remember any story mentioned bolas even a little bit 14 years ago when I first start to play magic.
Then after Yawgmoth left a power vacuum, suddenly bolas has been resurrected as the ultimate bad guy. Now everyone says how powerful Bolas is even to a degree Bolas is better than an actual god? Unbelievable.
Nicol Bolas wants all his power back, and the gods simply don't have the same power. Hell, Elspeth was just able to completely stop Heliod evaporating her with Khrusor, which is considered the strongest weapon in Theros. Nicol Bolas wouldn't have any semblance to any Theran dragon, so he'd already look rather odd to any Theran denizen, AND he'd have to get a bunch of people to believe in him to even count as a god. He wouldn't even have the power of the "head god", and if that said power isn't enough to deal with a post-Mending planeswalker, it isn't enough for the dragon. Pre-Mending walkers are considered to be the strongest beings to ever exist in the Multiverse. That's why being a god on Theros just isn't enough, not to mention that as soon as he planeswalked out of Theros, all that power is gone when his connection to Nyx is severed.
It should also be noted that Bolas appears to have, according to his own words, KILLED the survivors of the Elder Dragon War who had lasted that long. (In essence, Chromium and Arcades died by other means.)
Yes he was. In Legends II cycle, he was shown as a planeswalker, an enormously, staggeringly strong Planeswalker.
Yawgmoth wasn't all that people like to pretend he was either. Most of Yawgmoth's plans were thought up and executed by middle management in the Phyrexian hierarchy. Gix, Croag, and the other demons were the real brains behind things like the Sleeper Agents and the Planar Overlay.
Yawgmoth was equally built up as Bolas.
Best answer so far.
I'm a strong advocate for pre-mending walkers are insanely powerful. However I feel a trend that wotc is trying to narrow the gap between old walker and neowalker. The god like power of old walker is mentioned less and less. Now they are printing old walkers in commander 2014 which makes people make direct comparison between old and neo walkers. I know these cards doesn't represent the actual power of planeswalker. But for normal players who doesn't study the lore will easy take cards as reference of power. And they are building up Bolas, Jace more and more powerful.
The reason why I'm against Bolas's hype is also that I want to preserve the all powerful status of old walkers. In current lore Bolas is portrayed as the one single strongest being which render the mending Pointless . If a post mending Bolas is anywhere near his former self, no matter what he has been eating(planes, malestorms), then the gap between the two isn't that great.
I have this feeling as time goes by wotc will totally discard the difference between two types of planeswalkers.
He is still far far below what he was at the height of his power.
Bolas was so strong that he did not move through the Eternities, they moved around him and if he appeared on a plane that had not been properly prepared before hand, it would CRACK that reality.
Bolas fought the first Planeswalker duel on Dominaria, a battle that took over a month and destroyed 2/3rds of a CONTINENT.
See, it goes into that idea golblin talked about. Bolas, even before he was a walker, was nearly as strong as an oldwalker to start with. The Elder Dragon Empire spanned dozens, possibly hundreds of planes before the war.
This is, however, a fair concern. Especially since Mark recently talked about how much he dislikes the idea that neowalkers are called that because they do not wield the same power as oldwalkers. He doesn't care for the fact that players make that distinction and would prefer everyone to just call them all planeswalkers as if there were no difference.
I think the power level of PWs should be established. Post-Mending PWs are weaker and frankly it only makes sense to commit to a distinction. The issue of returning to that power level is that PWs wouldn't be as interesting if they're excessively powerful. I would prefer if it was established that having a spark enhances the natural ability to wield magic of the being or mage beyond just acquiring mana bonds and experience by travel. That it allows for more potent magic. That it inherently grants them a bigger destiny in the multiverse beyond just walking from plane to plane. That Jace is a remarkable mind mage compared to others with similar magic because he is a PWs but not exclusively because he has experienced diverse magic from far flung worlds, but because of raw power enhanced by something others are not. The spark, say, focuses magic like a lens for a PW to wield. Experience should be something, IMO, that distinguishes PWs from each other but not from other sentient beings wielding magic too.
We don't know how Theros gods rank against current PWs. We do know they're a local phenomenon, and we do know Nicol Bolas as a being is probably a greater entity because even Kruphix was uncertain about whether or not the entire Theros pantheon could stop him, or the Eldrazi, or the Pharexians if they arrived on Theros. But Nicol Bolas is a greater entity compares to other PWs, let alone gods. When you're talking about an entire multiverse of worlds, Theros is just one pebble in the ocean. I mean Xenagos himself pursued the agenda he did upon learning this. They're a big deal on their turf but beyond their world, it's pointless.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||