So sorry if someone has already stated this? But how has Urza not yet come up in conversation? He is an outstanding planeswalker, while having been dead for some time now, his legacy still lives on. (Hehe, get it?)
I believe the discussion focuses on the current cast. Urza was a strong planeswalker but he always preferred to use artifice to solve his problems. And I would not place him anywhere near Bolas or Ugin. Bolas required planes he visited to be suitably prepared or they would shatter. Ugin's mere presence raised up dragonstorms. Urza would have lost to Gix if it wasn't for Xantcha and Ratepe.
sense Ajani has beaten Nicol Bolas in the past its truly hard to say in my opinion that Nicol Bolas is the strongest 1v1.. the most cunning yes, but not most powerful
I guess I would go with Liliana with the veil as the most powerful Planeswalker currently
sense Ajani has beaten Nicol Bolas in the past its truly hard to say in my opinion that Nicol Bolas is the strongest 1v1.. the most cunning yes, but not most powerful
I guess I would go with Liliana with the veil as the most powerful Planeswalker currently
sense Ajani has beaten Nicol Bolas in the past its truly hard to say in my opinion that Nicol Bolas is the strongest 1v1.. the most cunning yes, but not most powerful
I guess I would go with Liliana with the veil as the most powerful Planeswalker currently
Well Ajani kinda cheated.
Could you explain how he cheated in spoiler tags? I haven't read the Alara books nor I plan to.
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Could you explain how he cheated in spoiler tags? I haven't read the Alara books nor I plan to.
Neither have I actually but my understanding is that...
Whilst Bolas was basically bathing in the maelstrom at the middle of the conflux Ajani called up an avatar of Bolas and was able to use it to run Bolas off. The best "summary" I've seen is that Ajani ubeat Bolas with the legend rule lol.
Could you explain how he cheated in spoiler tags? I haven't read the Alara books nor I plan to.
Neither have I actually but my understanding is that...
Whilst Bolas was basically bathing in the maelstrom at the middle of the conflux Ajani called up an avatar of Bolas and was able to use it to run Bolas off. The best "summary" I've seen is that Ajani ubeat Bolas with the legend rule lol.
And Ajani was able to syphon some of the maelstrom to use that spell. A better way to think about is is Ajani Goldmane used his final but used Bolas life total instead of the "player".
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Could you explain how he cheated in spoiler tags? I haven't read the Alara books nor I plan to.
Neither have I actually but my understanding is that...
Whilst Bolas was basically bathing in the maelstrom at the middle of the conflux Ajani called up an avatar of Bolas and was able to use it to run Bolas off. The best "summary" I've seen is that Ajani ubeat Bolas with the legend rule lol.
so you dont believe that Ajani could take him now?
I don't think the Raven Man is a planeswalker. He seems more like a curse or delusion Lilliana has. Considering the cost of using the Chain Veil, I don't know that I'd consider her, with it, as powerful as some has. She isn't at liberty of making very adequate use of the thing. Two demons in and she's feeling the drawbacks.
I thought Urza was the most powerful of all? Currently, Bolas obviously is. I think Jace and Kiora + Bident are being grossly underestimated.
Raven man appears in her origin story before her spark ignites. It's either a mental illness or a planeswalker with an agenda for her. He's also appears outside of dominaria, which really shoe horns him into being mobile.
I'd say ugin/bolas and karn.
Sorin, lilli, Ob, garruk
Chandra, Gideon, jade, nissa
Others
Sorin is beginning to fall out of favor with me. I think he is going to slide into tier 4 soon. If nahiri is alive she's tier 2 for me. She single handedly rolled ob, and he made the new walkers look like a pile of kiddie toys. I think she's a beast.
One other option for Raven Man: we know Lili had already started her Dark Dabbling before her origin story really kicks in. Maybe she had inadvertently given something (person / creature / demon) a foothold inside her head, and she is now carrying a fragment or aspect of that being around with her like a mental parasite. It would make it slightly distinct from a Tyler Durdenesque mental issue, but still explain how it can manifest to her beyond the bounds of Dominaria without necessarily being a planeswalker. Just a thought.
so you dont believe that Ajani could take him now?
I think Ajani would get picked from Bolas' teeth within a few minutes. I think that most of the humanoid walkers would be. Hell since we don't know if Ugin brings the Dragon storms with him I'm not even comfortable saying that Ugin could go draco-a-draco with Bolas anywhere other than Tarkir.
Now that we have seen Ob in BAMF action. Where do you folks think he stands?
While I should say I'm not a fan of 'rankings' because certain walkers have powers that allow them to beat others, I'd say there are essentially four tiers.
Average: These are the the planeswalkers who are basically no stronger than your average mage, or the recently ascended. Domri Rade is the poster child for these. Tezzeret without his arm or gadgets is this, too.
Special: These are the planeswalkers with a special power that puts them above your average mage. Most of our recurring cast, including the Gatewatch, fall into this category.
Jace: Mental Powers
Gideon: Invulernability
Tezzeret: Artifice
Ashiok: Dream Manipulation
Chandra: Pyromancy
Venser: Teleportation
Koth: Geomancy
Dack: Psychometry
Garruk: Natural Strength, Summoning
Kiora: Summoning
Sarkhan: Dragon form
Vraska: Stone Gaze
Exceptional: These are the walkers who have a very conditional level of strength that makes them stronger than the exceptional planeswalkers, so long as their conditions are met. Usually this is an item but it can also be a place. They can be as powerful, or more so, than Ancients with this power. The ones I can think of are:
Nissa: When connected to Zendikar
Chandra: When channeling other's mana
Kiora: With Thassa's Bident
Dack: With the Gauntlet
Liliana: With the Chain Veil
Ancient: These are the unique planeswalkers or former oldwalkers that give them a level of power unseen among the neowalkers, and that it would generally take several Special walkers or very specific Exceptional Walkers to beat. Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Sorin and Karn all fall into this category. I would now add Ob Nixilis to this list.
Nicol Bolas: Elder Dragon, Oldwalker, Immensely Powerful
Ugin: Spirit Dragon, Oldwalker, About as powerful as Bolas.
Karn: Silver Golem, Home of the Mightstone and Weakstone, and the Legacy
Sorin Markov: Millenia-old Vampire, Exact Power Unknown but greatly diminished since the Mending
Ob Nixilis: Human Warlord turned Demon, was more powerful than a Special planeswalker before re-ascending, since then he defeated three Special Walkers with ease
I left out characters who are unclear exactly where they fit.
Ob Nixilis: Human Warlord turned Demon, was more powerful than a Special planeswalker before re-ascending, since he defeated three Special Walkers with ease
Ob was resparked when he tore through the Gatewatch, and that did increase his power - before that, he had just lost to Nissa alone. He is probably near the lower "end" of Ancient tier.
Ob Nixilis: Human Warlord turned Demon, was more powerful than a Special planeswalker before re-ascending, since he defeated three Special Walkers with ease
Ob was resparked when he tore through the Gatewatch, and that did increase his power - before that, he had just lost to Nissa alone. He is probably near the lower "end" of Ancient tier.
He lost to Nissa because she tapped into Khalni Heart, so he was facing her when the condition to her special power was met. According to the fat pack booklet, Nissa has not yet realised the true extent of her ability to manipulate leylines.
Ob Nixilis: Human Warlord turned Demon, was more powerful than a Special planeswalker before re-ascending, since then he defeated three Special Walkers with ease
Ob was resparked when he tore through the Gatewatch, and that did increase his power - before that, he had just lost to Nissa alone. He is probably near the lower "end" of Ancient tier.
Should say 'since then' instead of just 'since', I've fixed it now.
The thought was that Ob Nixilis wasn't seriously at risk from the Player Character in DotP 2015, and he would have beaten Nissa if not for the Khalni Heart. So before he reascended, he could beat your average planeswalker.
After ascension, he beat three in a row and has a wide array of powers, to the point where he can kill swaths of normal people with barely any effort.
Any thoughts maybe Elspeth would become STRONGER after her death? The mask showcased in Journey into Nyx foreshadows her return, and it's likely that she'd become more powerful than we could possibly imagine.
While I should say I'm not a fan of 'rankings' because certain walkers have powers that allow them to beat others, I'd say there are essentially four tiers.
Average: These are the the planeswalkers who are basically no stronger than your average mage, or the recently ascended. Domri Rade is the poster child for these. Tezzeret without his arm or gadgets is this, too.
Special: These are the planeswalkers with a special power that puts them above your average mage. Most of our recurring cast, including the Gatewatch, fall into this category.
Jace: Mental Powers
Gideon: Invulernability
Tezzeret: Artifice
Ashiok: Dream Manipulation
Chandra: Pyromancy
Venser: Teleportation
Koth: Geomancy
Dack: Psychometry
Garruk: Natural Strength, Summoning
Kiora: Summoning
Sarkhan: Dragon form
Vraska: Stone Gaze
Exceptional: These are the walkers who have a very conditional level of strength that makes them stronger than the exceptional planeswalkers, so long as their conditions are met. Usually this is an item but it can also be a place. They can be as powerful, or more so, than Ancients with this power. The ones I can think of are:
Nissa: When connected to Zendikar
Chandra: When channeling other's mana
Kiora: With Thassa's Bident
Dack: With the Gauntlet
Liliana: With the Chain Veil
Ancient: These are the unique planeswalkers or former oldwalkers that give them a level of power unseen among the neowalkers, and that it would generally take several Special walkers or very specific Exceptional Walkers to beat. Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Sorin and Karn all fall into this category. I would now add Ob Nixilis to this list.
Nicol Bolas: Elder Dragon, Oldwalker, Immensely Powerful
Ugin: Spirit Dragon, Oldwalker, About as powerful as Bolas.
Karn: Silver Golem, Home of the Mightstone and Weakstone, and the Legacy
Sorin Markov: Millenia-old Vampire, Exact Power Unknown but greatly diminished since the Mending
Ob Nixilis: Human Warlord turned Demon, was more powerful than a Special planeswalker before re-ascending, since then he defeated three Special Walkers with ease
I left out characters who are unclear exactly where they fit.
I would add Ajani to the Exceptional category, given that his power is vastly affected by the person he's with/against. Ajani gave Bolas a defeat with his avatar magic, after all.
Any thoughts maybe Elspeth would become STRONGER after her death? The mask showcased in Journey into Nyx foreshadows her return, and it's likely that she'd become more powerful than we could possibly imagine.
Heliod is Vader?
All I think we can say at the moment is that she will be back, but with what power and capabilities it's impossible to say. We don't even know what form / colours / corporeality she'll come back with.
Liliana of the veil is the most powerful problably. Karn is also very powerful, but liliana is better
I'm going to assume you are talking about cards which is not what this discussion is about. Liliana with or without the veil is not even close to the top.
Well...Liliana is pretty clear about Sorin's power when talking to Jace. The difference between then is so huge that he not even consider her a treat. So, my top five would be:
1) Nicol, Ugin, Sorin (I wouldn't dare to put then in any order)
i was curious where you guys would put nahiri on the grand list of planeswalker power...
presumably below the ancient PWs (urza, nicol bolas, yawgmoth et al), but yea i dunno.. its not like there are a lot of stories with her using her power as far as ive read.
i was curious where you guys would put nahiri on the grand list of planeswalker power...
presumably below the ancient PWs (urza, nicol bolas, yawgmoth et al), but yea i dunno.. its not like there are a lot of stories with her using her power as far as ive read.
I think until we see her post-mending we shouldn't try to place her. 1000 years ago Sorin recognized her as more powerful than she had been last time he had seen her but his being defeated by her was because he was exhausted from creating the Helvault.
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I believe the discussion focuses on the current cast. Urza was a strong planeswalker but he always preferred to use artifice to solve his problems. And I would not place him anywhere near Bolas or Ugin. Bolas required planes he visited to be suitably prepared or they would shatter. Ugin's mere presence raised up dragonstorms. Urza would have lost to Gix if it wasn't for Xantcha and Ratepe.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
I guess I would go with Liliana with the veil as the most powerful Planeswalker currently
Well Ajani kinda cheated.
Could you explain how he cheated in spoiler tags? I haven't read the Alara books nor I plan to.
Breathe out.
Let your passion give you strength for the task at hand... And let the bashing begin!
Neither have I actually but my understanding is that...
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
so you dont believe that Ajani could take him now?
I thought Urza was the most powerful of all? Currently, Bolas obviously is. I think Jace and Kiora + Bident are being grossly underestimated.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I'd say ugin/bolas and karn.
Sorin, lilli, Ob, garruk
Chandra, Gideon, jade, nissa
Others
Sorin is beginning to fall out of favor with me. I think he is going to slide into tier 4 soon. If nahiri is alive she's tier 2 for me. She single handedly rolled ob, and he made the new walkers look like a pile of kiddie toys. I think she's a beast.
I think Ajani would get picked from Bolas' teeth within a few minutes. I think that most of the humanoid walkers would be. Hell since we don't know if Ugin brings the Dragon storms with him I'm not even comfortable saying that Ugin could go draco-a-draco with Bolas anywhere other than Tarkir.
Average: These are the the planeswalkers who are basically no stronger than your average mage, or the recently ascended. Domri Rade is the poster child for these. Tezzeret without his arm or gadgets is this, too.
Special: These are the planeswalkers with a special power that puts them above your average mage. Most of our recurring cast, including the Gatewatch, fall into this category.
Jace: Mental Powers
Gideon: Invulernability
Tezzeret: Artifice
Ashiok: Dream Manipulation
Chandra: Pyromancy
Venser: Teleportation
Koth: Geomancy
Dack: Psychometry
Garruk: Natural Strength, Summoning
Kiora: Summoning
Sarkhan: Dragon form
Vraska: Stone Gaze
Exceptional: These are the walkers who have a very conditional level of strength that makes them stronger than the exceptional planeswalkers, so long as their conditions are met. Usually this is an item but it can also be a place. They can be as powerful, or more so, than Ancients with this power. The ones I can think of are:
Nissa: When connected to Zendikar
Chandra: When channeling other's mana
Kiora: With Thassa's Bident
Dack: With the Gauntlet
Liliana: With the Chain Veil
Ancient: These are the unique planeswalkers or former oldwalkers that give them a level of power unseen among the neowalkers, and that it would generally take several Special walkers or very specific Exceptional Walkers to beat. Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Sorin and Karn all fall into this category. I would now add Ob Nixilis to this list.
Nicol Bolas: Elder Dragon, Oldwalker, Immensely Powerful
Ugin: Spirit Dragon, Oldwalker, About as powerful as Bolas.
Karn: Silver Golem, Home of the Mightstone and Weakstone, and the Legacy
Sorin Markov: Millenia-old Vampire, Exact Power Unknown but greatly diminished since the Mending
Ob Nixilis: Human Warlord turned Demon, was more powerful than a Special planeswalker before re-ascending, since then he defeated three Special Walkers with ease
I left out characters who are unclear exactly where they fit.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Ob was resparked when he tore through the Gatewatch, and that did increase his power - before that, he had just lost to Nissa alone. He is probably near the lower "end" of Ancient tier.
He lost to Nissa because she tapped into Khalni Heart, so he was facing her when the condition to her special power was met. According to the fat pack booklet, Nissa has not yet realised the true extent of her ability to manipulate leylines.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
The thought was that Ob Nixilis wasn't seriously at risk from the Player Character in DotP 2015, and he would have beaten Nissa if not for the Khalni Heart. So before he reascended, he could beat your average planeswalker.
After ascension, he beat three in a row and has a wide array of powers, to the point where he can kill swaths of normal people with barely any effort.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I would add Ajani to the Exceptional category, given that his power is vastly affected by the person he's with/against. Ajani gave Bolas a defeat with his avatar magic, after all.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Heliod is Vader?
All I think we can say at the moment is that she will be back, but with what power and capabilities it's impossible to say. We don't even know what form / colours / corporeality she'll come back with.
He is his own biggest downfall though. Personality wise, he's also a ginormous jerk.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I'm going to assume you are talking about cards which is not what this discussion is about. Liliana with or without the veil is not even close to the top.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
1) Nicol, Ugin, Sorin (I wouldn't dare to put then in any order)
4) Nahiri
5) Ob Nixilis
presumably below the ancient PWs (urza, nicol bolas, yawgmoth et al), but yea i dunno.. its not like there are a lot of stories with her using her power as far as ive read.
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I think until we see her post-mending we shouldn't try to place her. 1000 years ago Sorin recognized her as more powerful than she had been last time he had seen her but his being defeated by her was because he was exhausted from creating the Helvault.