So in Theros we have a planeswalker who "ascended" to godhood, indicating an improvement in station; yet once divinized he gets killed by another planeswalker (albeit one who is wielding a weapon given her by another god). Elspeth seems sufficiently awed by Heliod, but maybe she's just got a guilt/inferiority complex.
Basically, what I'm wondering is: who's more powerful, the average 'walker or the average god? Do the gods of Theros have the upper hand on their own turf, but are constrained simply by being bound to one plane? The flavor text on Godhunter Octopus confirms that Kiora is in a pretty fierce pissing match with Thassa; will she prevail, or be forced to scurry off to a different plane with her tail between her legs?
Along similar lines, what do you suppose is the relative power of the gods on Theros compared to Avacyn on Innistrad? Or compared to Oona, Queen of the Fae on Lorwyn?
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My guess is that under normal circumstances (not having a weapon forged by a god and blessed by another,) a planeswalker would never come close to being able to slay a god. They can still fight back, as seen when Heliod tried to fry Elspeth.
As for characters from other planes, it is hard to compare them. As far as Innistrad goes, Avacyn is pretty much a god. I don't think a single Therosian god could have turned the tide like Avacyn did after her return. I doubt your average planeswalker would be able to kill her, or even harm her. She is probably more "killable" than an actual god, though.
Also, planeswalkers are not that powerful. Excluding the planeswalking part, they are not above what a regular member of their race could achieve. It's more like they gain experience more quickly, but they still have the same level cap.
It seems like while the specifics are different, the card game has generally nailed it. For example, gods are indestructible, Avacyn has flying, and all creatures have P/T, and can battle as such. As for Planeswalkers, while the Planeswalker cards are really there to spice up the game with flavor (but noT JUST flavor, or else they would not be coveted aS much) for the sake of actually giving Jace, Liliana, Chandra, Garruk, etc game presence, it is pointed out that we as players, are planeswalkers (I suppose unless you play Block Constructed lol) the scale is different for gameplay purposes. There's a scale for creature vs creature, but our experience of that scale is when we are summoning faux facsimiles (redundant terminology? lol) of them, and our scale is 20 life, 1 land per turn, mana, that sort of thing, creatures and characters in=story are bound by similar limitations, but not exact. Essentially, my answer is that the only advantage given to a Planeswalker over significant denizens of a given plane is their/our reliance on spells and summoning (while characters like Gideon or Garruk or Elspeth seem able bodied, planeswalkers still focus on their spells and command over other creatures they were able to get tabs on) and while any given mage on a given plane still requires mana for their spells, which require mana bonds with different land, they are limited to the lands (and color-combinations) ON that plane, while planeswalkers have amassed mana bonds and unique spells from MULTIPLE planes, giving them a slight edge.
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3WWU, 2GWW, and 4RWW! These were the mana costs chosen to summon the perfect little angel! But Professor Avacyn accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction! Chemical x Thus, the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Gisela, Bruna, and Sigarda have dedicated their lives to fighting crime and the forces of evil!
I'm fine with that. The sooner we can put that terrible de-powering idea down, the better. The world of Magic is full of forces way to powerful for neowalkers to take on realistically, thus making most of the conflicts either terribly far fetched or a forgone conclusion. I'm looking at you New Phyrexia.
I couldn't agree more. I really would like to see a continued uptick in Planeswalker storyline power (not, not, not in planeswalker card power...those need a continued POWER DOWN in my opinion). I understand why we can't have all-knowing all-powerful being for the storyline anymore (sorta) but I wouldn't mind demi god levels.
As for planeswalker vs. god, a planeswalker is more powerful. Just about any planeswalker could exile, disenchant, or any number of other things to a god. And that's basic spells. The gods aren't real GODS, they are enchantment creatures. Palneswalker trumps enchantment creature any day.
Two years from now, Elspeth will be 'summoning' Heliod.
As for planeswalker vs. god, a planeswalker is more powerful. Just about any planeswalker could exile, disenchant, or any number of other things to a god. And that's basic spells. The gods aren't real GODS, they are enchantment creatures. Palneswalker trumps enchantment creature any day.
Yeah, I don't get why Elspeth and Xenagos go through so much trouble to fight the gods when they could simply cast Erase or Fade into Antiquity on them...
Also, I can't wait until the people of Zendikar find the 15 squirrels they need to defeat Emrakul.
As for planeswalker vs. god, a planeswalker is more powerful. Just about any planeswalker could exile, disenchant, or any number of other things to a god. And that's basic spells. The gods aren't real GODS, they are enchantment creatures. Palneswalker trumps enchantment creature any day.
I assure you the gods are real gods.
The planeswalkers have magic that foils the gods though. This seems to be true of Elspeth, Xenagos, and possibly Kiora and Ashiok as well.
Heliod had certainly never encountered anybody that could keep him from burning them alive and needed his ego stroked afterwards.
To the larger question: Avacyn's ability is defined as being whatever is necessary to protect humanity at the time. She theoretically has no upper limit so long as humanity is THAT bad off.
and from what I have read, Sorin was an oldwalker when Avacyn was created, so oldwalker or just below would be her power, meaning that planeswalkers now, or anything they have a chance against would get clobbered pretty easily. from xenagos it seems pretty clear that gods have more raw power than planeswalkers, but unless they were planeswalkers they have no understanding that there is much, if anything beyound Theros, and they cannot fundamentally chance who and what they are like Ajani has
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Because when you get right down to it, it doesn't work that way? What if Nylea decides to Bramblecrush Elspeth or Thassa Counterbores your Deicide and lobotomizes the spell out of your head? Do you really think a god will just sit there and let you resolve spells unmolested.
The Gods have way more power than the cards let on just like the Planeswalkers do. The ability to control forces of nature isn't something to scoff at. I'm willing to put money on a god vs most planeswalkers, especially a big five. Just because Xenagos didn't have the Naturalize for the Godsend or the Ranger's Guile for the Deicide doesn't mean gods are pushovers.
Also, planeswalkers are not that powerful. Excluding the planeswalking part, they are not above what a regular member of their race could achieve. It's more like they gain experience more quickly, but they still have the same level cap.
That's not entirely true. I think Xenagos sort of proves that.
Don't look at it like Walkers have the same level cap, but look at it like they have access to Prestige Classes that normal people don't. In the long run, they're capable of learning a lot more which pushes their limits up.
Also, considering how specific Deicide's effect is, it would appear having multiple copies of a card translates somehow to actual goings on. While you could just Path to Exile a god, it appears that Deicide's effect is a more proper way to handle a god, so essentially, Path to Exile could maybe send a god away, but they'd "summon their 2nd copy of Heliod, God of the Sun" [literal]come back from wherever they were banished to[/literal] tho that is interesting, has there been accounts of characters, planeswalkers included, casting bounce or exile spells to send a planar resident to the Aether, or Blind Eternities to get ripped apart into atoms or whatever?
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3WWU, 2GWW, and 4RWW! These were the mana costs chosen to summon the perfect little angel! But Professor Avacyn accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction! Chemical x Thus, the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Gisela, Bruna, and Sigarda have dedicated their lives to fighting crime and the forces of evil!
Also, planeswalkers are not that powerful. Excluding the planeswalking part, they are not above what a regular member of their race could achieve. It's more like they gain experience more quickly, but they still have the same level cap.
That's not entirely true. I think Xenagos sort of proves that.
Don't look at it like Walkers have the same level cap, but look at it like they have access to Prestige Classes that normal people don't. In the long run, they're capable of learning a lot more which pushes their limits up.
True. However, there isn't a big difference in terms of power between a planeswalker and a very powerful mage. At least, not as much as what many seem to think.
Well, if we're going by card based examples, the question of course becomes: Who's more powerful - This Runeclaw Bear, this Traveling Philosopher, or this Pillarfield Ox who can beat either one and live?
Metaphorical pissing contests are fun, but I don't think there's going to be any given, definitive, answer.
As for the comparison between the Theros Gods and Avacyn? Well, as previously mentioned, Avacyn gets stronger the worse off the people are. That'd be dependent on the environment. On average, they're probably about equal, but if the humans are devoted, the gods might fare better, and if they get lax and screw with those humans, Avacyn would likely be able to strike back. Oona, in comparison to both...isn't as powerful. Faeries as a whole aren't that powerful of a race.
But they are very, very tricky. And that might be all the advantage they need.
Anyways, on the metaphorical Planeswalker V. God face-off, I think, as a whole, the Planeswalkers are probably more powerful. The big thing to remember in that situation is, of course, that we're Planeswalkers. And the gods are strong, but we can very easily control them.
But if you want to go "boring not game related story reasons" then it's because the Planeswalkers have more experience to draw on. Raw power is great, but there's only so much it can do in the face of wisdom and skill.
Oona, in comparison to both...isn't as powerful. Faeries as a whole aren't that powerful of a race.
Oona literally altered the structure of her entire world for thousands of years and rewrote every living being on it multiple times over.
Oona should NOT be shrugged off. She usurped an entire world and made it what she wanted.
As far as gods v. planeswalkers, I don't think we have enough literature to really give the debate enough information. A story relating a duel between Thassa and Kiora could be a good example, if they ever do it (or have done it; if there's a link to such a thing, let me know!).
But generally, I feel that Kiora, through the cards and other contextual clues, and Xenagos, in the ebook, are being presented as more powerful (as planeswalkers) than other post-Mending 'walkers in other books. For instance, Xenagos seems to be doing magical feats with little effort, Kiora is toeing the line with a god and wielding what appears to be a lot of magic (she appears as a god, while Elspeth does not [though that could be her humility]). Meanwhile, the other 'walkers seem to have to put in more effort and have mortal, human fatigue (besides Bolas). Is this just artistic license with the writing, or an active thrust at making 'walkers slightly more than plane Jane mortals, or are Xenagos and Kiora just naturally more powerful?
Oona, in comparison to both...isn't as powerful. Faeries as a whole aren't that powerful of a race.
Oona literally altered the structure of her entire world for thousands of years and rewrote every living being on it multiple times over.
Oona should NOT be shrugged off. She usurped an entire world and made it what she wanted.
Were there novels on Lorwyn?, he asked, before actually searching himself.
I wasn't shrugging her off. She is powerful. So are the gods. So's Avacyn. They're all powerful. But Oona's power isn't all hers. Her power is harvested from others via her faeries. On her own, still powerful, but more importantly, she, as stated, was very, very tricky. Wicked intelligent.
She's also dead now, so I'm not 100% sure it matters.
I may not have played the game during Lorwyn block, but that doesn't mean I haven't heard the horror stories of the fae. Objectively, not powerful.
Doesn't mean they won't win.
As far as gods v. planeswalkers, I don't think we have enough literature to really give the debate enough information. A story relating a duel between Thassa and Kiora could be a good example, if they ever do it (or have done it; if there's a link to such a thing, let me know!).
But generally, I feel that Kiora, through the cards and other contextual clues, and Xenagos, in the ebook, are being presented as more powerful (as planeswalkers) than other post-Mending 'walkers in other books. For instance, Xenagos seems to be doing magical feats with little effort, Kiora is toeing the line with a god and wielding what appears to be a lot of magic (she appears as a god, while Elspeth does not [though that could be her humility]). Meanwhile, the other 'walkers seem to have to put in more effort and have mortal, human fatigue (besides Bolas). Is this just artistic license with the writing, or an active thrust at making 'walkers slightly more than plane Jane mortals, or are Xenagos and Kiora just naturally more powerful?
Oona, in comparison to both...isn't as powerful. Faeries as a whole aren't that powerful of a race.
Oona literally altered the structure of her entire world for thousands of years and rewrote every living being on it multiple times over.
Oona should NOT be shrugged off. She usurped an entire world and made it what she wanted.
Were there novels on Lorwyn?, he asked, before actually searching himself.
Kiora hasn't really done much other than fool a bunch of tritons into thinking she's Thassa (she rode in on a Trench Gorger). She doesn't really act like a god as much as use the name.
To be honest, I don't want to read that Uncharted Realms story if and when it shows up. The plot armor is going to Kiora since she's more popular unless Wizards wants her to learn a little humility and have her do a "tactical retreat" when she realizes that trying to fight a being who controls the very water she swims in isn't very smart.
Then again, I am sort of curious to see what the writer comes up with if Thassa is supposed to lose that doesn't feeling like jobbing. I can't see how Kiora can win when Thassa has sheer numbers, home sea advantage and the ability to shapeshift.
I can't see how Kiora can win when Thassa has sheer numbers, home sea advantage and the ability to shapeshift.
More or less, it comes down to the fact that walkers have magics which the gods have never seen. They are extremely powerful, but they don't have the same capacity as the walkers do. They also respond poorly to realizing that they don't have an easy time of it. It shakes them badly and that throws off the rest of their game.
In my understanding it is wrong to think of it in terms of "Who is more powerful? God or planeswalker?"
The question makes about as much sense as "Who can do more push-ups a human male or female?" You can select pairs of toddlers of either gender and pair them with professional gymnasts of the other gender and end up getting evidence in either direction.
Now Gods on Theros are identified by their connection to Nyx which gives them greater power than mortals. The assumption is that they are extremely powerful on Theros due to their God-hood stemming from that plane. It stands to reason that they are on a one-dimensional "power level" above the "mighty mortal" planeswalkers as far as their interactions are concerned - but that does not mean that a protagonist planeswalker cannot defeat them.
I am not only referring to Elspeth's role as the Champion, equipped with Godsend, being a planeswalker with God-ly blessing. Fiction is full of the stories that let the underdog succeed, often by using skills orthogonal to the one-dimensional "power-level" scale implied by the question in the thread title. And a planeswalker is the natural counterpart to a plane-bound God: Not especially powerful in a single plane, with certain domains, but above mortals and with the experience and flexibility of planar travel.
Along similar lines of thinking both Avacyn and Oona derive their power from their planes. Avacyn by an enchantment set in place by her creator that makes her stronger as the horrors of Innistrad grow and Oona by gathering her power by taking it by magic/minion herself.
So what do have Gods, Angels and Faeries in common in these cases? An external power source of some sort.
Now I would go further and say comparing such "dependent" beings from different planes in power level does not seem to make much sense either - the characters often have totally different areas of expertise. That said you can assume that the mightiest being on a plane usually is more powerful than most planeswalkers - especially all protagonists.
Sometimes you are on an artifact plane and Shatter is better than Terror; sometimes you are on Theros and Heliod is stronger than Elspeth.
"Power, it isn't something you put on or take of like a jacket. It's something you just ARE."
-Xykon
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I can't see how Kiora can win when Thassa has sheer numbers, home sea advantage and the ability to shapeshift.
More or less, it comes down to the fact that walkers have magics which the gods have never seen. They are extremely powerful, but they don't have the same capacity as the walkers do. They also respond poorly to realizing that they don't have an easy time of it. It shakes them badly and that throws off the rest of their game.
Also, the Theros gods can't directly interact with mortals, according to the first book. It's a mistake to think of any of this in terms of a shonen action manga of 'who is stronger than who'. The gods can interact with the environment (I.E. .aking waves, shooting a bow, sending a incinerating light beam, grabbing someone with a crook), but Heliod couldn't just straight up punch Elspeth. And those powers are strictly limited by their domain, Heliod only controls the sun, Thassa the waves, Nylea the forest. That's shown and talked about several times in the first book. That's actually a rather large disadvantage when confronting a planeswalker, especially when the planeswalker doesn't have the innate fear and respect that the common populace does. The gods frequently use their human followers to do their work, and they don't think at human scale (which is why they need Oracles).
Not being able to burn someone pretty much neuters the god of the sun.
As for the Kiora/Thassa fight, I'm pretty sure that occurs after the silence, so Thassa's only means to fight her is through her Nyxborn.
So as far as the powers in the universe, Avacyn and the Theros gods are extremely powerful but limited in scope, and the key to 'defeating' them is by circumventing their power. The same holds true for most of the powerful beings of the multiverse.
You should probably tell that to pre-ascended Xenagos when Nylea shot an arrow at his chest and choke-slammed him into the dirt before the recoil from the arrow could knock Xenagos down. Her next action was twisting the arrow in Xenagos's chest while she held him down.
The complete irony is that Xenagos said to her "you can't touch me since I'm a mortal and gods can't touch mortals" or something along those lines before Nylea messed him up.
Heliod has also attempted to burn Elspeth to a crisp when they first interacted in the novel.
Thassa also turned a guy's family into eels once according to the Planeswalker Guide. She also poked a guy with her finger to put glyphs on him as a reward for completing the Labyrinth in an Uncharted Realms story as well.
I read the same book you did but it seems to me that the "can't interact with mortals directly" seems like a rule rather than something they can't actually do unless your definition of direct interaction is different from mine.
I read the same book you did but it seems to me that the "can't interact with mortals directly" seems like a rule rather than something they can't actually do unless your definition of direct interaction is different from mine.
Hmmm, I missed the chokeslam, but everything else you mention is indirect (not actual physical contact). There are still strong limits on their 'domains'.
Anyways, on the metaphorical Planeswalker V. God face-off, I think, as a whole, the Planeswalkers are probably more powerful. The big thing to remember in that situation is, of course, that we're Planeswalkers. And the gods are strong, but we can very easily control them.
The Theros ebook suggests that Gods and Walkers are very much comparable in power as far as the lore goes. That Walkers have access to other planes and other knowledge tips the balance towards the Walkers. Heliod is obviously stunned that a mortal can resist his powers in any way and Phenax is terrified by the existence of other planes. Elspeth doesn't seem more powerful than the Gods, its just that their perspective is narrow.
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Basically, what I'm wondering is: who's more powerful, the average 'walker or the average god? Do the gods of Theros have the upper hand on their own turf, but are constrained simply by being bound to one plane? The flavor text on Godhunter Octopus confirms that Kiora is in a pretty fierce pissing match with Thassa; will she prevail, or be forced to scurry off to a different plane with her tail between her legs?
Along similar lines, what do you suppose is the relative power of the gods on Theros compared to Avacyn on Innistrad? Or compared to Oona, Queen of the Fae on Lorwyn?
As for characters from other planes, it is hard to compare them. As far as Innistrad goes, Avacyn is pretty much a god. I don't think a single Therosian god could have turned the tide like Avacyn did after her return. I doubt your average planeswalker would be able to kill her, or even harm her. She is probably more "killable" than an actual god, though.
Also, planeswalkers are not that powerful. Excluding the planeswalking part, they are not above what a regular member of their race could achieve. It's more like they gain experience more quickly, but they still have the same level cap.
I couldn't agree more. I really would like to see a continued uptick in Planeswalker storyline power (not, not, not in planeswalker card power...those need a continued POWER DOWN in my opinion). I understand why we can't have all-knowing all-powerful being for the storyline anymore (sorta) but I wouldn't mind demi god levels.
As for planeswalker vs. god, a planeswalker is more powerful. Just about any planeswalker could exile, disenchant, or any number of other things to a god. And that's basic spells. The gods aren't real GODS, they are enchantment creatures. Palneswalker trumps enchantment creature any day.
Two years from now, Elspeth will be 'summoning' Heliod.
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Yeah, I don't get why Elspeth and Xenagos go through so much trouble to fight the gods when they could simply cast Erase or Fade into Antiquity on them...
Also, I can't wait until the people of Zendikar find the 15 squirrels they need to defeat Emrakul.
I assure you the gods are real gods.
The planeswalkers have magic that foils the gods though. This seems to be true of Elspeth, Xenagos, and possibly Kiora and Ashiok as well.
Heliod had certainly never encountered anybody that could keep him from burning them alive and needed his ego stroked afterwards.
To the larger question: Avacyn's ability is defined as being whatever is necessary to protect humanity at the time. She theoretically has no upper limit so long as humanity is THAT bad off.
Oona, on the other hand... harder to tell.
The Gods have way more power than the cards let on just like the Planeswalkers do. The ability to control forces of nature isn't something to scoff at. I'm willing to put money on a god vs most planeswalkers, especially a big five. Just because Xenagos didn't have the Naturalize for the Godsend or the Ranger's Guile for the Deicide doesn't mean gods are pushovers.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
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That's not entirely true. I think Xenagos sort of proves that.
Don't look at it like Walkers have the same level cap, but look at it like they have access to Prestige Classes that normal people don't. In the long run, they're capable of learning a lot more which pushes their limits up.
True. However, there isn't a big difference in terms of power between a planeswalker and a very powerful mage. At least, not as much as what many seem to think.
Metaphorical pissing contests are fun, but I don't think there's going to be any given, definitive, answer.
As for the comparison between the Theros Gods and Avacyn? Well, as previously mentioned, Avacyn gets stronger the worse off the people are. That'd be dependent on the environment. On average, they're probably about equal, but if the humans are devoted, the gods might fare better, and if they get lax and screw with those humans, Avacyn would likely be able to strike back. Oona, in comparison to both...isn't as powerful. Faeries as a whole aren't that powerful of a race.
But they are very, very tricky. And that might be all the advantage they need.
Anyways, on the metaphorical Planeswalker V. God face-off, I think, as a whole, the Planeswalkers are probably more powerful. The big thing to remember in that situation is, of course, that we're Planeswalkers. And the gods are strong, but we can very easily control them.
But if you want to go "boring not game related story reasons" then it's because the Planeswalkers have more experience to draw on. Raw power is great, but there's only so much it can do in the face of wisdom and skill.
Oona literally altered the structure of her entire world for thousands of years and rewrote every living being on it multiple times over.
Oona should NOT be shrugged off. She usurped an entire world and made it what she wanted.
But generally, I feel that Kiora, through the cards and other contextual clues, and Xenagos, in the ebook, are being presented as more powerful (as planeswalkers) than other post-Mending 'walkers in other books. For instance, Xenagos seems to be doing magical feats with little effort, Kiora is toeing the line with a god and wielding what appears to be a lot of magic (she appears as a god, while Elspeth does not [though that could be her humility]). Meanwhile, the other 'walkers seem to have to put in more effort and have mortal, human fatigue (besides Bolas). Is this just artistic license with the writing, or an active thrust at making 'walkers slightly more than plane Jane mortals, or are Xenagos and Kiora just naturally more powerful?
Were there novels on Lorwyn?, he asked, before actually searching himself.
She's also dead now, so I'm not 100% sure it matters.
I may not have played the game during Lorwyn block, but that doesn't mean I haven't heard the horror stories of the fae. Objectively, not powerful.
Doesn't mean they won't win.
I apologize if that sounded a little contentious.
That's actually debatable. They put a last minute sting at the end of Eventide. Oona persists... but in how large a capacity, that's up in the air.
Kiora hasn't really done much other than fool a bunch of tritons into thinking she's Thassa (she rode in on a Trench Gorger). She doesn't really act like a god as much as use the name.
To be honest, I don't want to read that Uncharted Realms story if and when it shows up. The plot armor is going to Kiora since she's more popular unless Wizards wants her to learn a little humility and have her do a "tactical retreat" when she realizes that trying to fight a being who controls the very water she swims in isn't very smart.
Then again, I am sort of curious to see what the writer comes up with if Thassa is supposed to lose that doesn't feeling like jobbing. I can't see how Kiora can win when Thassa has sheer numbers, home sea advantage and the ability to shapeshift.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
More or less, it comes down to the fact that walkers have magics which the gods have never seen. They are extremely powerful, but they don't have the same capacity as the walkers do. They also respond poorly to realizing that they don't have an easy time of it. It shakes them badly and that throws off the rest of their game.
The question makes about as much sense as "Who can do more push-ups a human male or female?" You can select pairs of toddlers of either gender and pair them with professional gymnasts of the other gender and end up getting evidence in either direction.
Now Gods on Theros are identified by their connection to Nyx which gives them greater power than mortals. The assumption is that they are extremely powerful on Theros due to their God-hood stemming from that plane. It stands to reason that they are on a one-dimensional "power level" above the "mighty mortal" planeswalkers as far as their interactions are concerned - but that does not mean that a protagonist planeswalker cannot defeat them.
I am not only referring to Elspeth's role as the Champion, equipped with Godsend, being a planeswalker with God-ly blessing. Fiction is full of the stories that let the underdog succeed, often by using skills orthogonal to the one-dimensional "power-level" scale implied by the question in the thread title. And a planeswalker is the natural counterpart to a plane-bound God: Not especially powerful in a single plane, with certain domains, but above mortals and with the experience and flexibility of planar travel.
Along similar lines of thinking both Avacyn and Oona derive their power from their planes. Avacyn by an enchantment set in place by her creator that makes her stronger as the horrors of Innistrad grow and Oona by gathering her power by taking it by magic/minion herself.
So what do have Gods, Angels and Faeries in common in these cases? An external power source of some sort.
Now I would go further and say comparing such "dependent" beings from different planes in power level does not seem to make much sense either - the characters often have totally different areas of expertise. That said you can assume that the mightiest being on a plane usually is more powerful than most planeswalkers - especially all protagonists.
Sometimes you are on an artifact plane and Shatter is better than Terror; sometimes you are on Theros and Heliod is stronger than Elspeth.
"Power, it isn't something you put on or take of like a jacket. It's something you just ARE."
-Xykon
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well, they need to be flying squirrels and they need to have extra 6 of anything to sacrifice... lol
yeah, card power is pretty bad when trying and evaluate lore.
Also, the Theros gods can't directly interact with mortals, according to the first book. It's a mistake to think of any of this in terms of a shonen action manga of 'who is stronger than who'. The gods can interact with the environment (I.E. .aking waves, shooting a bow, sending a incinerating light beam, grabbing someone with a crook), but Heliod couldn't just straight up punch Elspeth. And those powers are strictly limited by their domain, Heliod only controls the sun, Thassa the waves, Nylea the forest. That's shown and talked about several times in the first book. That's actually a rather large disadvantage when confronting a planeswalker, especially when the planeswalker doesn't have the innate fear and respect that the common populace does. The gods frequently use their human followers to do their work, and they don't think at human scale (which is why they need Oracles).
Not being able to burn someone pretty much neuters the god of the sun.
As for the Kiora/Thassa fight, I'm pretty sure that occurs after the silence, so Thassa's only means to fight her is through her Nyxborn.
So as far as the powers in the universe, Avacyn and the Theros gods are extremely powerful but limited in scope, and the key to 'defeating' them is by circumventing their power. The same holds true for most of the powerful beings of the multiverse.
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The complete irony is that Xenagos said to her "you can't touch me since I'm a mortal and gods can't touch mortals" or something along those lines before Nylea messed him up.
Heliod has also attempted to burn Elspeth to a crisp when they first interacted in the novel.
Thassa also turned a guy's family into eels once according to the Planeswalker Guide. She also poked a guy with her finger to put glyphs on him as a reward for completing the Labyrinth in an Uncharted Realms story as well.
I read the same book you did but it seems to me that the "can't interact with mortals directly" seems like a rule rather than something they can't actually do unless your definition of direct interaction is different from mine.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
Hmmm, I missed the chokeslam, but everything else you mention is indirect (not actual physical contact). There are still strong limits on their 'domains'.
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The Theros ebook suggests that Gods and Walkers are very much comparable in power as far as the lore goes. That Walkers have access to other planes and other knowledge tips the balance towards the Walkers. Heliod is obviously stunned that a mortal can resist his powers in any way and Phenax is terrified by the existence of other planes. Elspeth doesn't seem more powerful than the Gods, its just that their perspective is narrow.