Say good-bye to Elspeth, it seems clear to me that she's gonna die.
Everyone expects death to be the end for Elspeth (assuming she does die) there's a whole lot of potential for her story to continue into the underworld.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
3WWU, 2GWW, and 4RWW! These were the mana costs chosen to summon the perfect little angel! But Professor Avacyn accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction! Chemical x Thus, the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Gisela, Bruna, and Sigarda have dedicated their lives to fighting crime and the forces of evil!
Say good-bye to Elspeth, it seems clear to me that she's gonna die.
Everyone expects death to be the end for Elspeth (assuming she does die) there's a whole lot of potential for her story to continue into the underworld.
I disagree. I believe that she will die, and no, there is not much potential for her to continue in magic lore. Could she be mentioned again, or somehow briefly brought in as some kind of spirit? Perhaps, but if she's dead then she is done as a major mtg character.
Especially given Elspeth's ability to fulfill the myth function of "dying" by simply planeswalking away, I'm fairly certain that she'll live to fight another day. After all, there are still Phyrexians in the multiverse.
However, planeswalking away also has issues. Erebos keeps track of EVERY soul, whether they stay, become reincarnated, became a demon, became a Returned... whatever. If Elspeth just MIA, Erebos might spend the rest of eternity being paranoid about what happened to that missing entity. The Gods don't know what planeswalkers are and have no awareness of other planes.
But you're right that dying doesn't make sense either. Elspeth's journey is to find a land to settle down in peace, or at least have her revenge against Phyrexians. What is it about the creatures of Theros that suddenly made her willing to risk dying as a hero?
If she dies, what did she die FOR?
Come to think of it, why is Kiora suddenly fighting against the gods of Theros? She's here looking for help, what good would crossing hairs with the head honchos of the place do? And Gideon... who cares about helping the Boros legion on the way? What are you going to do, planeswalk an entire legion into Zendikar?
Especially given Elspeth's ability to fulfill the myth function of "dying" by simply planeswalking away, I'm fairly certain that she'll live to fight another day. After all, there are still Phyrexians in the multiverse.
However, planeswalking away also has issues. Erebos keeps track of EVERY soul, whether they stay, become reincarnated, became a demon, became a Returned... whatever. If Elspeth just MIA, Erebos might spend the rest of eternity being paranoid about what happened to that missing entity. The Gods don't know what planeswalkers are and have no awareness of other planes.
But you're right that dying doesn't make sense either. Elspeth's journey is to find a land to settle down in peace, or at least have her revenge against Phyrexians. What is it about the creatures of Theros that suddenly made her willing to risk dying as a hero?
If she dies, what did she die FOR?
Come to think of it, why is Kiora suddenly fighting against the gods of Theros? She's here looking for help, what good would crossing hairs with the head honchos of the place do? And Gideon... who cares about helping the Boros legion on the way? What are you going to do, planeswalk an entire legion into Zendikar?
Exactly. I was pretty confused about Gideon's role in Ravnica. We still don't know how "horrible" the underworld is supposed to be, it's still possible that she may find peace there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
3WWU, 2GWW, and 4RWW! These were the mana costs chosen to summon the perfect little angel! But Professor Avacyn accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction! Chemical x Thus, the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Gisela, Bruna, and Sigarda have dedicated their lives to fighting crime and the forces of evil!
However, planeswalking away also has issues. Erebos keeps track of EVERY soul, whether they stay, become reincarnated, became a demon, became a Returned... whatever. If Elspeth just MIA, Erebos might spend the rest of eternity being paranoid about what happened to that missing entity. The Gods don't know what planeswalkers are and have no awareness of other planes.
I just finished the first ebook, so the following MAY be a spoiler.
An oracle of Phenax delves into Elspeth's memories and sees her experiences. The oracle would report back to Phenax, so at least one of the gods is aware that Planeswalking exists (apart from Xenagos).
Come to think of it, why is Kiora suddenly fighting against the gods of Theros? She's here looking for help, what good would crossing hairs with the head honchos of the place do? And Gideon... who cares about helping the Boros legion on the way? What are you going to do, planeswalk an entire legion into Zendikar?
Kiora has an ego. She's been impersonating Thassa and Thassa doesn't think much of it. When confronted, she's going to lay a smack down to prove how boss she is. It's... more than likely a compensation for what she couldn't do against the Eldrazi.
And Gideon basically hit a dead end and noticed that there was a lot of suffering going on, and being who he is, couldn't just let it go. He was never going to try to use the Boros legion against the Eldrazi.
Deicide doesn't kill them. It exiles them. It cuts them from Nyx.
That, too. For a regular god, that would probably mean ceasing to exist altogether as they are made out of Nyx. For Xenagos, it may be just ceasing to be a god (removing the godhood of someone can still be considered deicide, right?).
Technically, I suppose, but it hardly counts. Even if you know the story, there is no way you'd know Yawgmoth is even depicted on the card unless you had actually read the novel. The picture itself is ambiguous, and if not for the flavor text, we wouldn't have any idea that it even reflected a specific moment in the story.
Deicide doesn't kill them. It exiles them. It cuts them from Nyx.
Sometimes, exile = kill. Silence the Believers is just the most recent example that comes to mind. As I see it, exile more of a mechanical function than a flavorful one--a way of saying "This creature is really ****ing gone, and he isn't coming back." "Gone" can mean "dead" or "banished" depending on the context.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'd rather die speaking the truth than live a lie." --Gix, to Yawgmoth (pre-Phyrexia)
"Crossing the River", as stated by Erebos in the trailer, could have a double meaning. The first, and probably most obvious and clear cut meaning is Elspeth is crossing over the Rivers that Ring the World and going into the Underworld. Hence, she is now dead and Erebos has finally claimed her soul. Remember, Elspeth was inches from death in the Phyrexian War right before she planeswalked to Theros.
Second, and this could be way reading into it, is the real world meaning of crossing the river. Which in this case, is a reference to crossing the Rubicon. Here, the idiom of crossing the Rubicon means that one is crossing a point of no return, and is about to do through a major ordeal. The reference refers to Caesar crossing the actual Rubicon River in Italy in 49 BC, which ignited the Caesar Civil War. Erebos could be making a reference to this idiom. "We all have to cross the river one day" parallels very nicely with "We all must endure ordeals one day". And Elspeth must finally show her strength instead of running away from them like she did in Conflux and New Phyrexia. For a badass, she has yet to show her potential. And considering the art and flavor text on Deicide, she finally crosses her river and completes her ordeal.
Perhaps Erebos's prize is Xenagos, and Heliod was too arrogant and ego-centric that he blamed Elspeth for everything, when he really should have blamed himself for being blind to everything. Just like in most Geek Theological Myth, Zeus always meddles and ****s things up because, hey he's Zeus. The other gods have to cover his butt every time. In this case, the only god that trusts Elspeth was Kruphix, who instructs her on the knowledge of killing and banishing Xenagos.
Killing off Elspeth would be awful. My little girl adores the story, she reads all the flavor text and you can't even imagine how great it feels as a dad to see an awesome model for girls.
The plot revolves on a little girl growing up to humble gods. Awesome. Wotc would be making a massive mistake messing with all the goodwill this line is generating for them.
Technically, I suppose, but it hardly counts. Even if you know the story, there is no way you'd know Yawgmoth is even depicted on the card unless you had actually read the novel. The picture itself is ambiguous, and if not for the flavor text, we wouldn't have any idea that it even reflected a specific moment in the story.
Technically it really doesn't.
It depicts them firing the collected mana of the Glimmer Moon at Yawgmoth, but it didn't kill him. He didn't die until they placed the mightstone and weakstone into Karn and realized the Legacy.
Sometimes, exile = kill. Silence the Believers is just the most recent example that comes to mind. As I see it, exile more of a mechanical function than a flavorful one--a way of saying "This creature is really ****ing gone, and he isn't coming back." "Gone" can mean "dead" or "banished" depending on the context.
Considering Godsend's history and abilities, it really doesn't. Deicide, in a vacuum might mean dead, but it isn't in a vacuum any more than Vindicate was.
He was, however, hardly a main villain anymore at that time.
Seems like you're bending the parameters just to get Deicide to qualify; Volrath was the primary antagonist of the Weatherlight saga, and Topple was the moment he met his end; hence, Topple is the first card to feature the death of a major villain.
He was, however, hardly a main villain anymore at that time.
Seems like you're bending the parameters just to get Deicide to qualify; Volrath was the primary antagonist of the Weatherlight saga, and Topple was the moment he met his end; hence, Topple is the first card to feature the death of a major villain.
I don't give a damn to bend anything for Deicide to fit. I just want to have things straight. And thank you for enlightening me, I know very well who Volrath was.
I am just saying that Topple does not quite depict a breaking storyline point. Volrath was the big bad of Rath cycle, but in the time of Topple, Crovax was becoming the primary villain, and Topple just concludes Volrath's fall from grace. You are right that it is the first to depict a once main villain to die. But it is wholly different league than Deicide.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I spoke to Jenna Helland at PAX Prime. She said that Elspeth would not be fleeing, removed from, or exiting the plane of Theros as she has with her previous homes. Whether that means she dies or simply finds a permanent home (it could very easily be both, given how death works on Theros) is anyone's guess.
I spoke to Jenna Helland at PAX Prime. She said that Elspeth would not be fleeing, removed from, or exiting the plane of Theros as she has with her previous homes. Whether that means she dies or simply finds a permanent home (it could very easily be both, given how death works on Theros) is anyone's guess.
Please let it be true, poor character... she's had enough of these crappy events.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Making an account to post this. If I'm stating the obvious or what's already been established, forgive me.
Here's my take on the last part of the (really well-done) trailer:
Take comfort in this: True heroes never die
Heroes in mythology are immortalized either in legends or literally.
Resign yourself to your glorious fate.
I am coming to claim my prize.
The prize Erebos speaks of is probably Elspeth's soul.
Everyone expects death to be the end for Elspeth (assuming she does die) there's a whole lot of potential for her story to continue into the underworld.
I disagree. I believe that she will die, and no, there is not much potential for her to continue in magic lore. Could she be mentioned again, or somehow briefly brought in as some kind of spirit? Perhaps, but if she's dead then she is done as a major mtg character.
However, planeswalking away also has issues. Erebos keeps track of EVERY soul, whether they stay, become reincarnated, became a demon, became a Returned... whatever. If Elspeth just MIA, Erebos might spend the rest of eternity being paranoid about what happened to that missing entity. The Gods don't know what planeswalkers are and have no awareness of other planes.
But you're right that dying doesn't make sense either. Elspeth's journey is to find a land to settle down in peace, or at least have her revenge against Phyrexians. What is it about the creatures of Theros that suddenly made her willing to risk dying as a hero?
If she dies, what did she die FOR?
Come to think of it, why is Kiora suddenly fighting against the gods of Theros? She's here looking for help, what good would crossing hairs with the head honchos of the place do? And Gideon... who cares about helping the Boros legion on the way? What are you going to do, planeswalk an entire legion into Zendikar?
Exactly. I was pretty confused about Gideon's role in Ravnica. We still don't know how "horrible" the underworld is supposed to be, it's still possible that she may find peace there.
I just finished the first ebook, so the following MAY be a spoiler.
Kiora has an ego. She's been impersonating Thassa and Thassa doesn't think much of it. When confronted, she's going to lay a smack down to prove how boss she is. It's... more than likely a compensation for what she couldn't do against the Eldrazi.
And Gideon basically hit a dead end and noticed that there was a lot of suffering going on, and being who he is, couldn't just let it go. He was never going to try to use the Boros legion against the Eldrazi.
But how was that for some boss art and flavor text? This is the first time we've seen a main villain die on a card!
Deicide doesn't kill them. It exiles them. It cuts them from Nyx.
Isn't Vindicate the death of Yawgmoth?
That, too. For a regular god, that would probably mean ceasing to exist altogether as they are made out of Nyx. For Xenagos, it may be just ceasing to be a god (removing the godhood of someone can still be considered deicide, right?).
Technically, I suppose, but it hardly counts. Even if you know the story, there is no way you'd know Yawgmoth is even depicted on the card unless you had actually read the novel. The picture itself is ambiguous, and if not for the flavor text, we wouldn't have any idea that it even reflected a specific moment in the story.
Sometimes, exile = kill. Silence the Believers is just the most recent example that comes to mind. As I see it, exile more of a mechanical function than a flavorful one--a way of saying "This creature is really ****ing gone, and he isn't coming back." "Gone" can mean "dead" or "banished" depending on the context.
"Crossing the River", as stated by Erebos in the trailer, could have a double meaning. The first, and probably most obvious and clear cut meaning is Elspeth is crossing over the Rivers that Ring the World and going into the Underworld. Hence, she is now dead and Erebos has finally claimed her soul. Remember, Elspeth was inches from death in the Phyrexian War right before she planeswalked to Theros.
Second, and this could be way reading into it, is the real world meaning of crossing the river. Which in this case, is a reference to crossing the Rubicon. Here, the idiom of crossing the Rubicon means that one is crossing a point of no return, and is about to do through a major ordeal. The reference refers to Caesar crossing the actual Rubicon River in Italy in 49 BC, which ignited the Caesar Civil War. Erebos could be making a reference to this idiom. "We all have to cross the river one day" parallels very nicely with "We all must endure ordeals one day". And Elspeth must finally show her strength instead of running away from them like she did in Conflux and New Phyrexia. For a badass, she has yet to show her potential. And considering the art and flavor text on Deicide, she finally crosses her river and completes her ordeal.
Perhaps Erebos's prize is Xenagos, and Heliod was too arrogant and ego-centric that he blamed Elspeth for everything, when he really should have blamed himself for being blind to everything. Just like in most Geek Theological Myth, Zeus always meddles and ****s things up because, hey he's Zeus. The other gods have to cover his butt every time. In this case, the only god that trusts Elspeth was Kruphix, who instructs her on the knowledge of killing and banishing Xenagos.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
The plot revolves on a little girl growing up to humble gods. Awesome. Wotc would be making a massive mistake messing with all the goodwill this line is generating for them.
It depicts them firing the collected mana of the Glimmer Moon at Yawgmoth, but it didn't kill him. He didn't die until they placed the mightstone and weakstone into Karn and realized the Legacy.
Considering Godsend's history and abilities, it really doesn't. Deicide, in a vacuum might mean dead, but it isn't in a vacuum any more than Vindicate was.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/543682-announcing-mtg-gvyjthqxgr-conspiracy?page=49#c1239
Topple
He was, however, hardly a main villain anymore at that time.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Seems like you're bending the parameters just to get Deicide to qualify; Volrath was the primary antagonist of the Weatherlight saga, and Topple was the moment he met his end; hence, Topple is the first card to feature the death of a major villain.
Diabolic Intent and Gerrard's Verdict/Last Caress also depict the deaths of major villains, for what it's worth.
I don't give a damn to bend anything for Deicide to fit. I just want to have things straight. And thank you for enlightening me, I know very well who Volrath was.
I am just saying that Topple does not quite depict a breaking storyline point. Volrath was the big bad of Rath cycle, but in the time of Topple, Crovax was becoming the primary villain, and Topple just concludes Volrath's fall from grace. You are right that it is the first to depict a once main villain to die. But it is wholly different league than Deicide.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Please let it be true, poor character... she's had enough of these crappy events.
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Here's my take on the last part of the (really well-done) trailer:
Heroes in mythology are immortalized either in legends or literally.
The prize Erebos speaks of is probably Elspeth's soul.
Do we know if there's other confirmation of an 'extended trailer' beyond this one person's account of what was said?
I'd really *like* to believe that we're going to get even more trailery goodness
His prize is having Elspeth in the underworld. That is what I thought it was.
G Mono-Green Devotion
EDH
GWR Marath, Will of the Wild(Cats!)
G Melira, Sylvok Outcast
WUBRG Sliver Hivelord
URW Narset, Enlightened Master(Thread)
UBG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant