To steer clear of baseless speculation, let's substitute Phantasmal Image for Phrexian Metalmorph. Since Tezzeret would be dealing with copies instead of the real deal, I don't think sentience would be a problem. Unless the Eldrazi conscripted it, thereby destroying the copy. Tezzeret could easily snare any of the Eldrazi in some Tangle Wire, though that's a temporary fix.
1) game and story segregation. What those will do in story terms are not accurately depicted as part of the mechanics.
2) Tezzeret couldn't produce illusions that powerful anyways.
I don't remember it ever explicitly being said, but there are a few plausible reasons:
1) Bolas is looking for anything that could potentially restore his lost oldwalker power.
2) Bolas wanted to see what Ugin had been up to
3) Bolas wanted to see what the Eldrazi were capable of and if he could use them in some way
4) Bolas enjoys screwing with Jace as a hobby (my personal favorite theory)
In any case, I'm sure his 'reason' will be made at least somewhat more clear, or retconned, with the next set to feature Eldrazi.
3 makes the most sense right now, but I'm fairly certain they'll retcon Bolas out of the story or retcon his motives. Not to mention that they have to retcon the Eldrazi if they want to deal with them. That or use the Lithomancer as a Superman figure.
guys, it's not that hard. when wotc will be tired of the eldrazi, Jace will find some kind of deus-ex-machina, a powerful artifact made by his ancestor Jacicus the First, the most powerful of all the oldwalkers, and will activate it completely destroying every eldrazi.
Is Jace, the Mind Sculptor a reincarnation of Jacicus?
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Haven't played anything but EDH and casual for over a year
I think I've read over this, but an Eldrazi can be 'removed from game'. I'm not sure how RFG works storywise, though if there is a way it might be used by a powerfull planeswalker as a lense to create a new plane (for example).
Speaking of which: wasn't Bolas quite interested in the Eldrazi, wasn't he the one who released them from their prisons? I dread the day he finds a way to consume their power...
Bolas did release them, though we don't yet know why. Probably because he can dodge whatever plane they're on so long as they're running loose (so why should he care?). When he finally wants to use them, he ought to be a good enough blood mage (like Sorin) to lure them to whatever plane he wants to destroy (Kamigawa?).
Anyway, on removing from the game, the flavour is much different depending on the card. Mostly it's either because the body gets disintegrated so there's nothing left to go to the graveyard or they're sent into some kind of purgatory. I don't think RFG effects would be especially useful against the Eldrazi as far as the storyline is concerned.
The fact that the Eldrazi are bound to Zendikar is a Hedron thing. They can't be destroyed and resummoned because they can't leave the plane. An RFG effect would cause their whole being to desintigrate: not just their body, but their soul (as far as they have one) as well. Also, because of the Hedrons, Memnarch's soul traps probably can't fetch an Eldrazi soul (see above) either.
On a side note: what would happen if Karn would implant the powerstones into an Eldrazi? Would Glacian's essence kind of take over the body? Would it try to reason with the Eldrazi mind (as far as it has one)?
The fact that the Eldrazi are bound to Zendikar is a Hedron thing. They can't be destroyed and resummoned because they can't leave the plane. An RFG effect would cause their whole being to desintigrate: not just their body, but their soul (as far as they have one) as well. Also, because of the Hedrons, Memnarch's soul traps probably can't fetch an Eldrazi soul (see above) either.
What the Hedrons did was lock them into a physical existence. The secondary lock, Sorin's lock, then shoved them into the space between Zendikar and the Aether so they were removed from game.
On a side note: what would happen if Karn would implant the powerstones into an Eldrazi? Would Glacian's essence kind of take over the body? Would it try to reason with the Eldrazi mind (as far as it has one)?
You'd probably annoy the Eldrazi if you tried ramming a powerstone into it. That's about it.
Powerstones aren't these amazing catch all devices. They pretty much only contain mana.
The fact that the Eldrazi are bound to Zendikar is a Hedron thing. They can't be destroyed and resummoned because they can't leave the plane. An RFG effect would cause their whole being to desintigrate: not just their body, but their soul (as far as they have one) as well. Also, because of the Hedrons, Memnarch's soul traps probably can't fetch an Eldrazi soul (see above) either.
Okay, sure. Let's say I agree with all of the above. Do you think a simple spell like Disintegrate is going to be enough to beat them? I'm not saying that they can't be RFG'd, just that regular run-of-the-mill exile spells simply aren't going to be enough to deal with them. Three oldwalkers couldn't beat them. They surely tried a Swords to Plowshares...
On a side note: what would happen if Karn would implant the powerstones into an Eldrazi? Would Glacian's essence kind of take over the body? Would it try to reason with the Eldrazi mind (as far as it has one)?
Probably they would suck the mana from the powerstones, thank Karn for the appetizer, then eat him as the main course. Not sure where you're getting the idea that the two stones have the ability to control someone's mind...
The fact that the Eldrazi are bound to Zendikar is a Hedron thing. They can't be destroyed and resummoned because they can't leave the plane. An RFG effect would cause their whole being to desintigrate: not just their body, but their soul (as far as they have one) as well. Also, because of the Hedrons, Memnarch's soul traps probably can't fetch an Eldrazi soul (see above) either.
On a side note: what would happen if Karn would implant the powerstones into an Eldrazi? Would Glacian's essence kind of take over the body? Would it try to reason with the Eldrazi mind (as far as it has one)?
1. Gameplay/storyline segregation is a thing. Not every card effect has a one-to-one correspondence to the storyline.
2. The Eldrazi are eldritch abominations from the Blind Eternities, outside the ken of normal minds. They are beyond things like souls, and their minds are incomprehesible to other beings.
3. That's not how the Meekstone and Mightstone work. When the Legacy Weapon was realized, all of its parts, including the stones (with whatever is left of Glacian), Gerrard, Karn, evetything, was integrated into the gestalt that became Karn Planeswalker.
Because if he's still a god upon leaving Theros, the multiverse just got a dangerous new force to deal with, and he might be a Chekov's 'walker for future conflicts.)
It would certainly add another villain archetype to Magic's rogues gallery. We've already got the Phyrexians playing the role of assimilating Borg-types with a religious zealotry angle, the Eldrazi as Lovecraftian cosmic horrors and Nicol Bolas as the shadowy puppetmaster. Xenagos might give us the crazy ascended "A GOD AM I!!!" type. Think General Bison from the Street Fighter movie.
When you think about it, JCVD would kinda look like Gideon if he grew his hair out, and Kylie Minogue would make a passable Nissa.
I dont know if it is because i am tired that i am realizing this, but here you go
I recently realized that we could have a cycle of enemy color neowalkers try to take down the eldrazi. Think about it
Kiora (UG) Is trying to find a beast in the ocean that is large enough to fight the eldrazi without dying
Sorin (BW) tried to fight the eldrazi when they returned, but left because Nissa pissed him off by not following his orders when he told her to, and basically screwing things up. So he went to Zendikar and got distracted by the stuff going on there, however, there is nothing stopping him from going back to Zendikar now that Avacyn is trying to take care of stuff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING SPECULATION AHEAD: YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
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Nissa (G but could be GB) So Nissa screwed up a little by destroying the hedrons, and now needs to go find Sorin. This search will eventually lead her to Innistrad, where she might just learn how to use black mana. This one's a long shot, but I think it could work, especially since she said she was going to drag Sorin back to Zendikar and make him fight.
Gideon (W but he could be RW) This one I have heavy doubts about. Basically, the idea is that he returns with the knowledge, and the army he gained on Ravnica, then tries to kill the eldrazi
Ral Zarek (RU) there is actually no reason to put Ral in this hypothetical situation... shut up
Of course i could be dead wrong, or maybe just dead tired
Gideon (W but he could be RW) This one I have heavy doubts about. Basically, the idea is that he returns with the knowledge, and the army he gained on Ravnica, then tries to kill the eldrazi
Gideon is about as likely to turn red as Chandra is to turn white. Which means he's NOT.
For one, he has serious hang ups about red, no matter his relationship with Chandra. His master's master, the man he inherited his sural from was killed by a pyromancer. Red isn't happening in his identity.
Aside from that, you literally CAN'T transport an army from one world to another.
Ral Zarek (RU) there is actually no reason to put Ral in this hypothetical situation... shut up
Gideon is about as likely to turn red as Chandra is to turn white. Which means he's NOT.
For one, he has serious hang ups about red, no matter his relationship with Chandra. His master's master, the man he inherited his sural from was killed by a pyromancer. Red isn't happening in his identity.
Aside from that, you literally CAN'T transport an army from one world to another.
Yeah, Ral is a sticky wicket in the theory.
The color problem with Gideon is why i had such doubts. He was basically there as a place holder. I was more thinking they could do two new walkers that are RU and WR.
2) Tezzeret couldn't produce illusions that powerful anyways.
In that book you don't like, he says that he would frequently make small-scale illusions, such as clothes, realistic enough that they were essentially real.
The illusion itself is easy enough to deal with. Just throw a spell at it and *poof*. So it's really not very powerful, especially in the context of Tezzie summoning an Esperzoa in AoA.
In that book you don't like, he says that he would frequently make small-scale illusions, such as clothes, realistic enough that they were essentially real.
Right, so his clothes can beat the Eldrazi...
wait a minute...
let's think this through...
The illusion itself is easy enough to deal with. Just throw a spell at it and *poof*. So it's really not very powerful, especially in the context of Tezzie summoning an Esperzoa in AoA.
For the record, I don't think it was an esperzoa. It was a many tentacled and slightly bladed metal thing, but that's still a bit different than the big lightning jellyfish.
Dont worry, Karn will somehow mutate into Urza and save the day..
Just kidding
but seriously, I am not sure how all these storylines connect but we need to see more Phyrexia and more Eldrazi soon, before people move on to the next thing. Also, what is Bolas up to these days? They keep making all these cool villainous baddies and then moving on to other stuff (innistrad, RtR, Theros...whats next that I dont care about?)
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
All this talks about illusions, but I'm not even sure if the Illusions themselves are capable of comprehending the Eldrazi's true form - we know for sure their summoners can't.
For all we know, they might just transform to the physical forms (in the cards) because that's all they can comprehend, and then get promptly wiped out because that's not the "true" form.
And I seriously doubt Eldrazi would bother to comprehend and be "shocked" by an illusion. Chances are they see the "blue mana" in the clone and just proceed to consume it. Despite game mechanics, illusions maintain the "blueness" in their nature and the Eldrazi "care" only about eating that existence support color.
You make a point there, and I like to draw a parallel to Warhammer 40.000. You've got beings there that are invissible to magics, up to a point that they make people around them irritated; they are some kind of 'void' in the fabric of reality. Translating this to MtG speak, would it be possible to have a colorless creature, without a manacost, battle the Eldrazi? One that can't be regularly summoned, because it doesn't adhere to the normal way of things and not being comprised of mana, and as such can't fall victim to Eldrazi mananomnoms?
All this talks about illusions, but I'm not even sure if the Illusions themselves are capable of comprehending the Eldrazi's true form - we know for sure their summoners can't.
For all we know, they might just transform to the physical forms (in the cards) because that's all they can comprehend, and then get promptly wiped out because that's not the "true" form.
There is nothing in the lore that suggests that an Eldrazi's physical form is anything but exactly that.
They may be inspired by Cthulu, but they didn't inherit everything from it.
1) game and story segregation. What those will do in story terms are not accurately depicted as part of the mechanics.
2) Tezzeret couldn't produce illusions that powerful anyways.
In-game: bad, bad, terrible things. D:
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3 makes the most sense right now, but I'm fairly certain they'll retcon Bolas out of the story or retcon his motives. Not to mention that they have to retcon the Eldrazi if they want to deal with them. That or use the Lithomancer as a Superman figure.
Is Jace, the Mind Sculptor a reincarnation of Jacicus?
Speaking of which: wasn't Bolas quite interested in the Eldrazi, wasn't he the one who released them from their prisons? I dread the day he finds a way to consume their power...
Anyway, on removing from the game, the flavour is much different depending on the card. Mostly it's either because the body gets disintegrated so there's nothing left to go to the graveyard or they're sent into some kind of purgatory. I don't think RFG effects would be especially useful against the Eldrazi as far as the storyline is concerned.
On a side note: what would happen if Karn would implant the powerstones into an Eldrazi? Would Glacian's essence kind of take over the body? Would it try to reason with the Eldrazi mind (as far as it has one)?
What the Hedrons did was lock them into a physical existence. The secondary lock, Sorin's lock, then shoved them into the space between Zendikar and the Aether so they were removed from game.
You'd probably annoy the Eldrazi if you tried ramming a powerstone into it. That's about it.
Powerstones aren't these amazing catch all devices. They pretty much only contain mana.
Okay, sure. Let's say I agree with all of the above. Do you think a simple spell like Disintegrate is going to be enough to beat them? I'm not saying that they can't be RFG'd, just that regular run-of-the-mill exile spells simply aren't going to be enough to deal with them. Three oldwalkers couldn't beat them. They surely tried a Swords to Plowshares...
Probably they would suck the mana from the powerstones, thank Karn for the appetizer, then eat him as the main course. Not sure where you're getting the idea that the two stones have the ability to control someone's mind...
1. Gameplay/storyline segregation is a thing. Not every card effect has a one-to-one correspondence to the storyline.
2. The Eldrazi are eldritch abominations from the Blind Eternities, outside the ken of normal minds. They are beyond things like souls, and their minds are incomprehesible to other beings.
3. That's not how the Meekstone and Mightstone work. When the Legacy Weapon was realized, all of its parts, including the stones (with whatever is left of Glacian), Gerrard, Karn, evetything, was integrated into the gestalt that became Karn Planeswalker.
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It would certainly add another villain archetype to Magic's rogues gallery. We've already got the Phyrexians playing the role of assimilating Borg-types with a religious zealotry angle, the Eldrazi as Lovecraftian cosmic horrors and Nicol Bolas as the shadowy puppetmaster. Xenagos might give us the crazy ascended "A GOD AM I!!!" type. Think General Bison from the Street Fighter movie.
When you think about it, JCVD would kinda look like Gideon if he grew his hair out, and Kylie Minogue would make a passable Nissa.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
I recently realized that we could have a cycle of enemy color neowalkers try to take down the eldrazi. Think about it
Kiora (UG) Is trying to find a beast in the ocean that is large enough to fight the eldrazi without dying
Sorin (BW) tried to fight the eldrazi when they returned, but left because Nissa pissed him off by not following his orders when he told her to, and basically screwing things up. So he went to Zendikar and got distracted by the stuff going on there, however, there is nothing stopping him from going back to Zendikar now that Avacyn is trying to take care of stuff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING SPECULATION AHEAD: YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nissa (G but could be GB) So Nissa screwed up a little by destroying the hedrons, and now needs to go find Sorin. This search will eventually lead her to Innistrad, where she might just learn how to use black mana. This one's a long shot, but I think it could work, especially since she said she was going to drag Sorin back to Zendikar and make him fight.
Gideon (W but he could be RW) This one I have heavy doubts about. Basically, the idea is that he returns with the knowledge, and the army he gained on Ravnica, then tries to kill the eldrazi
Ral Zarek (RU) there is actually no reason to put Ral in this hypothetical situation... shut up
Of course i could be dead wrong, or maybe just dead tired
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Gideon is about as likely to turn red as Chandra is to turn white. Which means he's NOT.
For one, he has serious hang ups about red, no matter his relationship with Chandra. His master's master, the man he inherited his sural from was killed by a pyromancer. Red isn't happening in his identity.
Aside from that, you literally CAN'T transport an army from one world to another.
Yeah, Ral is a sticky wicket in the theory.
The color problem with Gideon is why i had such doubts. He was basically there as a place holder. I was more thinking they could do two new walkers that are RU and WR.
CHECK OUT MY TRIBAL CUSTOM SET KREVAN
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/custom-set-creation-and/530273-krevan-the-first-set-in-a-tribal-block
In that book you don't like, he says that he would frequently make small-scale illusions, such as clothes, realistic enough that they were essentially real.
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wait a minute...
let's think this through...
For the record, I don't think it was an esperzoa. It was a many tentacled and slightly bladed metal thing, but that's still a bit different than the big lightning jellyfish.
Just kidding
but seriously, I am not sure how all these storylines connect but we need to see more Phyrexia and more Eldrazi soon, before people move on to the next thing. Also, what is Bolas up to these days? They keep making all these cool villainous baddies and then moving on to other stuff (innistrad, RtR, Theros...whats next that I dont care about?)
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
For all we know, they might just transform to the physical forms (in the cards) because that's all they can comprehend, and then get promptly wiped out because that's not the "true" form.
And I seriously doubt Eldrazi would bother to comprehend and be "shocked" by an illusion. Chances are they see the "blue mana" in the clone and just proceed to consume it. Despite game mechanics, illusions maintain the "blueness" in their nature and the Eldrazi "care" only about eating that existence support color.
There is nothing in the lore that suggests that an Eldrazi's physical form is anything but exactly that.
They may be inspired by Cthulu, but they didn't inherit everything from it.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.