THIS IS NOT A VS, OR A COMPLAIN THREAD, BETWEEN THE 2 'WALKER TYPES. DON'T TAKE IT THERE. Thank you.
I'm am wondering what are their capability differences, in say something like if they went to war. What are physical strengths? I know Oldwalkers used to have obcene strength, I can't compare it to anything because my minds a blank from being sick. What about the Bradywalkers? Are they limited to what they work out similar to human strength? In order for them to get stronger would they have to hit the gym? How much concentration is needed for Bradywalkers and Oldwalkers to cast something simple like say, a full set of clothes or some shoes, to something huge like a tempest storm? How much damage can they take, both Oldwalkers and Bradywalkers? Can an arm be chopped off and imagined back in it's place? Do they get a scar? What does it take to kill either planeswalker types?
Thank you! And again, don't turn this into X is better than Y because X could do this better. We already know these things and Oldwalkers aren't coming back. I want to get a grasp on the new ones because I had a dream about new ones and I'm intrigued now.
I'm am wondering what are their capability differences, in say something like if they went to war. What are physical strengths? I know Oldwalkers used to have obcene strength, I can't compare it to anything because my minds a blank from being sick. What about the Bradywalkers? Are they limited to what they work out similar to human strength? In order for them to get stronger would they have to hit the gym? How much concentration is needed for Bradywalkers and Oldwalkers to cast something simple like say, a full set of clothes or some shoes, to something huge like a tempest storm? How much damage can they take, both Oldwalkers and Bradywalkers? Can an arm be chopped off and imagined back in it's place? Do they get a scar? What does it take to kill either planeswalker types?
The most important distinction between Oldwalkers and modern 'walkers is their physical form (and this speaks to nearly every point you bring up). Oldwalkers transcended physical form; their body, clothing, appearance, everything was constructed by sheer force of will. They were immortal in the Greco-Roman pantheon sense of the word; they did not age, they did not die of natural causes. Suicide was an option, by simply willing themselves not to live. Incredibly powerful attacks could kill them, such as in duels, or when Urza activated the Titan Engines on Phyrexia, but everyday battle scars were easily shrugged off. (Yawgmoth believed that the spark was located in the brain; he tortured the planewalker Dyfed by embedding a powerstone dagger in her brain and scrambling it around. This prevented her from being able to escape or change form, and allowed his followers to vivisect her.) They were, effectively, gods. They had access to near limitless supplies of mana, and could shape worlds to their will.
Modern 'walkers, after the Mending, are normal mortals. They can be hurt, they can die, they can't change shape (at least because of their spark; with enough study they could learn such tricks). They age like normal members of their respective races, they have to study and learn to become skilled mages. (Tezzeret is notable for being a particularly bad mage, but talented with artifice.) In other words, the only thing that makes a planeswalker different from a normal mage is the ability to enter the Blind Eternities and survive.
In other words, the only thing that makes a planeswalker different from a normal mage is the ability to enter the Blind Eternities and survive.
Basically true, but they are typically more naturally gifted than your average mage. Chandra's arrival on Regatha was noticed across the plane because she was so much more powerful than anyone they'd ever seen (at least, since Jaya Ballard, the oldwalker), even compared to fire mages who had studied their entire lives.
I was just thinking about the differences between old and new 'walkers and was just popping in to make a post, which is a funny coincidence.
One thing that I was thinking of was around what "unit of time" a game of Magic represented. With the old Planeswalkers, I could see huge spells being thrown back and forth over a relatively short period. With the new Planeswalkers, who seem to be worn out after 2-3 spells, a game of Magic seems like it must represent a much longer timeline.
If we go by what seems to be in the fiction a fight between the Old Planeswalkers would be in more or less real time, where a fight between the New Planeswalkers (based on number of spells cast and mana spent) would have to be over the course of several days.
Basically true, but they are typically more naturally gifted than your average mage. Chandra's arrival on Regatha was noticed across the plane because she was so much more powerful than anyone they'd ever seen (at least, since Jaya Ballard, the oldwalker), even compared to fire mages who had studied their entire lives.
It's also worth noting things like Jace's telepathy, Gideon's fighting capabilities, and Tezzeret's natural artifice understanding... and depending on what you want to take from Test of Metal, the "Rhabdomancy".
It makes sense that the more gifted planeswalkers are the ones who we end up seeing. Narratively, they're more interesting characters than Average-Joe-Who-Happens-To-Be-Able-To-Planeswalk, and logically it makes sense that the less-gifted ones wouldn't survive so long in the vast multiverse.
I know that Neowalkers definitely are more powerful than non-walkers (on average) due to their access to MORE and more VARIETY of mana. Do Oldwalkers rely on mana bonds, or are they just overflowing with it naturally? Or do those 2 explanations co-exist for an Oldwalker?
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It's more than just the manabonds. Chandra was extremely powerful and naturally gifted as a child, before she ascended even. Tezzeret was the same. Jace was the same. I can't think of a precise quote or anything, but it's definitely been implied (if not outright stated) that that natural talent is related to the spark.
Oldwalkers did use manabonds, but couldn't they pull mana directly from the Blind Eternities or something as well? I'm a little fuzzy on that one.
It's more than just the manabonds. Chandra was extremely powerful and naturally gifted as a child, before she ascended even. Tezzeret was the same. Jace was the same. I can't think of a precise quote or anything, but it's definitely been implied (if not outright stated) that that natural talent is related to the spark.
Oldwalkers did use manabonds, but couldn't they pull mana directly from the Blind Eternities or something as well? I'm a little fuzzy on that one.
If I recall correctly from the Time Spiral novels, the spark was tied into the aether of the Blind Eternities, which allowed Oldwalkers to syphon mana directly from the Eternities. The Mending changed the spark to break that tie because of the stress that the 'walkers were putting on the fabric of the multiverse.
I might be misremembering all of those details, though.
It's more than just the manabonds. Chandra was extremely powerful and naturally gifted as a child, before she ascended even. Tezzeret was the same. Jace was the same. I can't think of a precise quote or anything, but it's definitely been implied (if not outright stated) that that natural talent is related to the spark.
Oldwalkers did use manabonds, but couldn't they pull mana directly from the Blind Eternities or something as well? I'm a little fuzzy on that one.
I think it's more that it causes them to develop into remarkable people rather than actually being some gift of the spark.
The spark doesn't provide Jace's telepathy, but because he had the spark, he ended up with the additional ability as well.
But it has been outright stated that the sparks grants a greater natural talent than those without.... still there is no set manifestation of this talent.
I'm fuzzy on specifics about some neowalkers, but as far as old planeswalkers, I know Bo Levar was just a sailor/smuggler when he died and his spark ignited, showing no inclination to magic or artifice beforehand. Are there neowalkers that expressed no artifice or magic inclination of any kind before becoming 'walkers? I'm guessing Ajani and Garruk could be two, maybe Domri and Elspeth too. If neowalkers expressed no magical/artifice ability before becoming 'walkers, then how do they have those abilities after becoming 'walkers?
I'm fuzzy on specifics about some neowalkers, but as far as old planeswalkers, I know Bo Levar was just a sailor/smuggler when he died and his spark ignited, showing no inclination to magic or artifice beforehand. Are there neowalkers that expressed no artifice or magic inclination of any kind before becoming 'walkers? I'm guessing Ajani and Garruk could be two, maybe Domri and Elspeth too. If neowalkers expressed no magical/artifice ability before becoming 'walkers, then how do they have those abilities after becoming 'walkers?
Ajani was an expert healer and had the ability to see a person's essential essence.
Garruk had a pretty strong affinity for soothing beasts.
Gideon had no gifts with magic or artifice, but that didn't stop the spark from manifesting as a trait. Gideon was an exceptional fighter, actually FAR better than he should have been given his training. That realization is what caused his spark to flare.
Elspeth had some instinctual spellcasting ability, but she was also barely 13 when she ascended. And she'd been imprisoned in a phyrexian asylum for a lot of that, so no training for her.
Domri falls into the same place as Garruk, being able to manipulate beasts.
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I'm am wondering what are their capability differences, in say something like if they went to war. What are physical strengths? I know Oldwalkers used to have obcene strength, I can't compare it to anything because my minds a blank from being sick. What about the Bradywalkers? Are they limited to what they work out similar to human strength? In order for them to get stronger would they have to hit the gym? How much concentration is needed for Bradywalkers and Oldwalkers to cast something simple like say, a full set of clothes or some shoes, to something huge like a tempest storm? How much damage can they take, both Oldwalkers and Bradywalkers? Can an arm be chopped off and imagined back in it's place? Do they get a scar? What does it take to kill either planeswalker types?
Thank you! And again, don't turn this into X is better than Y because X could do this better. We already know these things and Oldwalkers aren't coming back. I want to get a grasp on the new ones because I had a dream about new ones and I'm intrigued now.
The most important distinction between Oldwalkers and modern 'walkers is their physical form (and this speaks to nearly every point you bring up). Oldwalkers transcended physical form; their body, clothing, appearance, everything was constructed by sheer force of will. They were immortal in the Greco-Roman pantheon sense of the word; they did not age, they did not die of natural causes. Suicide was an option, by simply willing themselves not to live. Incredibly powerful attacks could kill them, such as in duels, or when Urza activated the Titan Engines on Phyrexia, but everyday battle scars were easily shrugged off. (Yawgmoth believed that the spark was located in the brain; he tortured the planewalker Dyfed by embedding a powerstone dagger in her brain and scrambling it around. This prevented her from being able to escape or change form, and allowed his followers to vivisect her.) They were, effectively, gods. They had access to near limitless supplies of mana, and could shape worlds to their will.
Modern 'walkers, after the Mending, are normal mortals. They can be hurt, they can die, they can't change shape (at least because of their spark; with enough study they could learn such tricks). They age like normal members of their respective races, they have to study and learn to become skilled mages. (Tezzeret is notable for being a particularly bad mage, but talented with artifice.) In other words, the only thing that makes a planeswalker different from a normal mage is the ability to enter the Blind Eternities and survive.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Basically true, but they are typically more naturally gifted than your average mage. Chandra's arrival on Regatha was noticed across the plane because she was so much more powerful than anyone they'd ever seen (at least, since Jaya Ballard, the oldwalker), even compared to fire mages who had studied their entire lives.
One thing that I was thinking of was around what "unit of time" a game of Magic represented. With the old Planeswalkers, I could see huge spells being thrown back and forth over a relatively short period. With the new Planeswalkers, who seem to be worn out after 2-3 spells, a game of Magic seems like it must represent a much longer timeline.
If we go by what seems to be in the fiction a fight between the Old Planeswalkers would be in more or less real time, where a fight between the New Planeswalkers (based on number of spells cast and mana spent) would have to be over the course of several days.
It's also worth noting things like Jace's telepathy, Gideon's fighting capabilities, and Tezzeret's natural artifice understanding... and depending on what you want to take from Test of Metal, the "Rhabdomancy".
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Oldwalkers did use manabonds, but couldn't they pull mana directly from the Blind Eternities or something as well? I'm a little fuzzy on that one.
If I recall correctly from the Time Spiral novels, the spark was tied into the aether of the Blind Eternities, which allowed Oldwalkers to syphon mana directly from the Eternities. The Mending changed the spark to break that tie because of the stress that the 'walkers were putting on the fabric of the multiverse.
I might be misremembering all of those details, though.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
I think it's more that it causes them to develop into remarkable people rather than actually being some gift of the spark.
The spark doesn't provide Jace's telepathy, but because he had the spark, he ended up with the additional ability as well.
But it has been outright stated that the sparks grants a greater natural talent than those without.... still there is no set manifestation of this talent.
Ajani was an expert healer and had the ability to see a person's essential essence.
Garruk had a pretty strong affinity for soothing beasts.
Gideon had no gifts with magic or artifice, but that didn't stop the spark from manifesting as a trait. Gideon was an exceptional fighter, actually FAR better than he should have been given his training. That realization is what caused his spark to flare.
Elspeth had some instinctual spellcasting ability, but she was also barely 13 when she ascended. And she'd been imprisoned in a phyrexian asylum for a lot of that, so no training for her.
Domri falls into the same place as Garruk, being able to manipulate beasts.