It's possible re-reading that maybe in-world, Planeswalkers are more like "urban legends", while people who have personal experiences with one might know that they exist for sure (like Aurelia's interaction with Gideon), maybe others aren't 100% sure that they really exist. One thing I did think was odd reading it was that Niv-Mizzet would immediately jump to the conclusion that the disappearances on the grid would be because they were walking way to different planes. This seemed like an odd thing to figure out if you had no clue about planeswalkers. Maybe this was more like an experiment to prove that something that's only an urban legend really does exist and who they are, rather than outright learning that planeswalkers are a thing in the first place.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
Would've probably enjoyed this more without Jace. I really hate Jace for being such a pandering cliche.
Anyway, I can't take Ral seriously. Every time he talks I just hear Ben 10 and remember how horribly he was miscast as Yuri Lowenthal. He's okay, I guess, but I expected him to zap his competition at some point to get rid of her. I guess all those hints of Ral shifting into black by MaRo are now pointless.
I really hope they deal with this Gideon and Chandra plotline during BFZ.
to be honest I'm not sure how much of the books Wizards has decided to use in it's current and future plans for Ravnica. We have not seen the shade of Kos nor know the whereabouts of Feather. Also, even if the Ship was designed to be an interplanar transport similar to The Weatherlight, that does not mean the vast majority of Ravnica nor even its Guildmasters are aware of it's true purpose.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
to be honest I'm not sure how much of the books Wizards has decided to use in it's current and future plans for Ravnica. We have not seen the shade of Kos nor know the whereabouts of Feather. Also, even if the Ship was designed to be an interplanar transport similar to The Weatherlight, that does not mean the vast majority of Ravnica nor even its Guildmasters are aware of it's true purpose.
Fearther is locked away in Sunhome. According to the story Krenko, Mob Boss an Orzhov person sent Krenko into Sunhome to "free" her but it was just as a distraction. He broke the detention sphere she was in only for her to shortly thereafter be locked up again.
I think a lot of us give Niv Mizzet too much credit. He may be a genius, but if he knew -everything-, that would be poor characterization.
I think I prefer that he's been oblivious of some details, especially if it's something that supposedly has a one in a million million chance of occurring. Compile that with an overpopulated plane that makes it difficult to pick out. Kinda like a grain of sand on a beach.
He may never have observed a planes walker 'walking frequently enough to realize it was statistically significant. It's hard enough to grasp a concept that throws the laws of physics out the window.
That said, I find it amusing that Ral suggested Mizzet would have a reaction similar to the gods' discovery that everything they know is only an insignificantly small part of a whole multiverse.
I think Niv knows about Planeswalkers exist, given that fellow guild founder Azor is presumed to be one, or brought to Ravnica by one. Odds are he has a good idea that Jace may be a Walker and sees a difference in what he knows an Old Walker had and what Jace has displayed.
I think a lot of us give Niv Mizzet too much credit. He may be a genius, but if he knew -everything-, that would be poor characterization.
Plus, the Izzet usually come across as easily distracted, with their whole "impulsive creativity" shtick. It's not too unthinkable that Niv-Mizzet never really cared about that sorta stuff up until now.
Having that said, I kinda hope Niv-Mizzet does know about planeswalkers and just wants to know more details or an actual pattern. Maybe he tries to find out how planeswalkers planeswalk and then try to emulate that.* It just seems odd that the angels of all things knew about planeswalkers and not a guild focused on knowledge and research.
*I'm not saying that Niv should be able to planeswalk eventually, but it would make sense for him to try to figure out how it works, and then try to invent a way to emulate that, fruitlessly so.
Why would he want to figure out a pattern if he already knows what is happening?
Just because he might know of planeswalkers doesn't mean he knows about the spark. It's not unreasonable to think for the uninformed that planeswalkers are just casting very powerful unique spells.
Honestly I wonder if Doug's been asked whether Niv-Mizzet literally has no idea what a Planeswalker is, or if the UR was just vague and he knows what a Planeswalker is, but doesn't know if they actually exist or who they are. I still find the whole lightning grid thing to not make any sense if he didn't know what a Planeswalker is at least, since it seems like a leap of logic with the given information in-universe to go "oh this person disappeared off the grid, he must be walking to a different plane of existence." They might even know that different planes exist, but not that there are people who can walk between them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
Honestly I wonder if Doug's been asked whether Niv-Mizzet literally has no idea what a Planeswalker is, or if the UR was just vague and he knows what a Planeswalker is, but doesn't know if they actually exist or who they are. I still find the whole lightning grid thing to not make any sense if he didn't know what a Planeswalker is at least, since it seems like a leap of logic with the given information in-universe to go "oh this person disappeared off the grid, he must be walking to a different plane of existence." They might even know that different planes exist, but not that there are people who can walk between them.
I think the idea was never "they must be going to other planes." I think it was "There is some clear spatial distortions around these people. We should try and figure out what's going on."
I don't understand all this Iquatana stuff. We don't even know if it's an interesting place. To my knowledge we've seen it in two small instances. Of course they're going to use Ravnica. Ravnica is one of the most popular settings in the magic multiverse.
Well, due to its popularity, Ravnica is more than likely getting a revisit within the next five years or so, I imagine. Iquatana seems like the sort of world that would never work as a full block set and we are unlikely to see more samples from it in Core Sets now that Core Sets are no more. So, now that it is almost confirmed out of Origins, the only chances of getting more Iquatana are in special products like Commander. So, we are realistically looking at seeing somewhere between 0 and 3 Iquatana cards in the next decade, at best. While Ravnica could possibly get two blocks dedicated to it in the mean time.
I don't understand all this Iquatana stuff. We don't even know if it's an interesting place. To my knowledge we've seen it in two small instances. Of course they're going to use Ravnica. Ravnica is one of the most popular settings in the magic multiverse.
Well, due to its popularity, Ravnica is more than likely getting a revisit within the next five years or so, I imagine. Iquatana seems like the sort of world that would never work as a full block set and we are unlikely to see more samples from it in Core Sets now that Core Sets are no more. So, now that it is almost confirmed out of Origins, the only chances of getting more Iquatana are in special products like Commander. So, we are realistically looking at seeing somewhere between 0 and 3 Iquatana cards in the next decade, at best. While Ravnica could possibly get two blocks dedicated to it in the mean time.
So? How do you know that it's even a world worth while? How do you know it has anything more worth seeing? Maybe they decided that Iquatana was not something they wanted to explore. I'm sure there are plenty of worlds that got a card in Planechase that we wont ever see because that was all they were ever intended to have. I'm pretty sure that if we never go to Iquatana for even 1/10 of a set no one will really be that sad about it.
It is not just Iquatana, though. This might have been the best chance for exploring worlds that are not Block material on their own, yet still had potential for providing unique settings and it seems rather disappointing to me that we are getting mostly worlds that are very likely to get revisits anyway (Ravnica, Zendikar and Theros are almost confirmed).
I've seen "Underwater World" being requested at least twice in MaRo's blog (MaRo shot it down both times because he said it was too difficult to portray all five colors in such a world), and since I and another poster would like to see Iquatana as well and MaRo's answer implies that he (and maybe other people in the staff) had given it some thought, I would imagine it is not that rare an idea. Niche for a block, definitely, but it should be safe for 1/10th of a set, I would think. Note that Iquatana has also had relatively little build up creatively. Narcomoeba, Jace's Phantom and the Aether Flues seem mostly bottom-up designs that simply tie the world with Illusions and Memory Manipulation (both skills associated with Jace), so the world could have been given about any flavor that creative found fitting.
Note as well that the most popular things about Ravnica are the Guilds, the two color cards associated with them and some of the Paruns. Things that are going to be limited in a core set where Ravnica is going to be used mostly to give a setting to maybe 15-20 Jace-related cards (I imagine at least some cards will remain generic).
The deal breakers could be the amount of resources and time creative would need to invest on building the world from the little that exists. It might simply be too much to ask for more than 3 new fleshed out worlds in a block (and we've been promised some new worlds, at least). Plus, Jace is now the Living Guildpact, and as such might need bigger ties with Ravnica than a world he won't be visiting again any time soon like Iquatana. But it is still something that saddens me.
It is not just Iquatana, though. This might have been the best chance for exploring worlds that are not Block material on their own, yet still had potential for providing unique settings and it seems rather disappointing to me that we are getting mostly worlds that are very likely to get revisits anyway (Ravnica, Zendikar and Theros are almost confirmed).
I've seen "Underwater World" being requested at least twice in MaRo's blog (MaRo shot it down both times because he said it was too difficult to portray all five colors in such a world), and since I and another poster would like to see Iquatana as well and MaRo's answer implies that he (and maybe other people in the staff) had given it some thought, I would imagine it is not that rare an idea. Niche for a block, definitely, but it should be safe for 1/10th of a set, I would think. Note that Iquatana has also had relatively little build up creatively. Narcomoeba, Jace's Phantom and the Aether Flues seem mostly bottom-up designs that simply tie the world with Illusions and Memory Manipulation (both skills associated with Jace), so the world could have been given about any flavor that creative found fitting.
Note as well that the most popular things about Ravnica are the Guilds, the two color cards associated with them and some of the Paruns. Things that are going to be limited in a core set where Ravnica is going to be used mostly to give a setting to maybe 15-20 Jace-related cards (I imagine at least some cards will remain generic).
The deal breakers could be the amount of resources and time creative would need to invest on building the world from the little that exists. It might simply be too much to ask for more than 3 new fleshed out worlds in a block (and we've been promised some new worlds, at least). Plus, Jace is now the Living Guildpact, and as such might need bigger ties with Ravnica than a world he won't be visiting again any time soon like Iquatana. But it is still something that saddens me.
I'd like to see where this idea that Inaquatakabakasanpeiplane or whatever isn't going to be a world. They've confirmed that some of the planes featured in Origins will be new planes. Just because Jace/Chandra (and personally I believe more that Chandra will be the one to head to Ravnica, but I digress) are heading to Ravnica doesn't mean that Jace's homeworld can't be Inquatonikansa or whatever. In all seriousness, Iquatana isn't ruled out anywhere, and we don't know WHERE Jace comes from. He doesn't know either. Why are we saying it's for sure out?
It's easy and logical to trace Jace's first walk to Iquatana though. And I agree that, where relevant showcasing those worlds as settings in this set was ideal. Why not look to the Planeschase pool when making such decisions? Then again we don't know what WOTC has planned for the lore and tying cards into it for the future. I'll wait and see what the planes are before judging, but I will say that I just don't want to see Ravnica. But will.
I'd like to see where this idea that Inaquatakabakasanpeiplane or whatever isn't going to be a world. They've confirmed that some of the planes featured in Origins will be new planes. Just because Jace/Chandra (and personally I believe more that Chandra will be the one to head to Ravnica, but I digress) are heading to Ravnica doesn't mean that Jace's homeworld can't be Inquatonikansa or whatever. In all seriousness, Iquatana isn't ruled out anywhere, and we don't know WHERE Jace comes from. He doesn't know either. Why are we saying it's for sure out?
Well, Jace has said he has little to no memories of his home world. Yet Jace's Phantasm mentions that he is familiar with the Iquati "abstract memories". Thus, Iquatana can't be his home world (unless the Jace's Phantasm flavor text is set in the future, where he has rediscovered his past).
I'd rather have them visit worlds that are a good fit for the planeswalkers that are the actual focus of Origins than have them go "this is a good opportunity to showcase plane X without devoting an entire block to them, let's find a 'walkers whose backstory we can cram it into".
That said, it would be pretty funny (and rather realistic) if one of the 'walker's first planeswalk was to a completely random plane. Like Nissa ending up on Rabiah. Or Chandra on Pyrulea.
So the Uncharted Realms today spoiled each of the five planeswalkers' respective home planes and their first plane visited:
Planeswalker: Gideon
Home Plane: Theros
First-Planeswalk Plane: Bant
Planeswalker: Jace
Home Plane: Vryn
First-Planeswalk Plane: Ravnica
Planeswalker: Liliana
Home Plane: Dominaria
First-Planeswalk Plane: Innistrad
Planeswalker: Chandra
Home Plane: Kaladesh
First-Planeswalk Plane: Regatha
Planeswalker: Nissa
Home Plane: Zendikar
First-Planeswalk Plane: Lorwyn
My question is whether Kaladesh has ever been mentioned before as Chandra's home plane, and if not, does this spoiler lend support to the supposedly fake spoiled Chandra card?
Also, awesome to see Vryn finally. Rebound likely won't be a thing in Origins so soon after Dragons, but I'm still curious about the mechanics of the plane.
My question is whether Kaladesh has ever been mentioned before as Chandra's home plane, and if not, does this spoiler lend support to the supposedly fake spoiled Chandra card?
I was wondering the same thing. Does anyone know if Kaladesh was a known plane before the spoiler?
Did anyone else find it interesting that Liliana's story is called "the Fourth Pact"? She had been a planeswalker for some time before having to make the demonic pacts after the Mending. Don't get me wrong I CANT WAIT for my favorite planeswalker's story, but I'm just a little confused since that isnt really her origin story. I suppose it is possible that her story starts pre-mending and finishes with her final pact post-mending. (???)
Mark said there would new new planes debuted in this set. Kaladesh was confirmed early on as one of them. I'm assuming Vryn is the other.
revisiting Dominaria and Innistrad through young Lili's eyes should be very interesting.
and I asked this in another discussion, but isn't Regatha a Planechase plane? I'm too lazy to look it up.
So excited! Return to Dominaria! .....Kind of,
Seriously some of these planes were the best of all time, others I will be excited to meet having 'visited'.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
...I suppose it is possible that her story starts pre-mending and finishes with her final pact post-mending. (???)
This is most likely how its gonna be. I guess these stories are going to fill all the holes in each character's backstory (from before ascending up to their first card appearance.
Also, its going to be nice to see dominaria again on cards after so long
But the people behind the barrier knew.
Anyway, I can't take Ral seriously. Every time he talks I just hear Ben 10 and remember how horribly he was miscast as Yuri Lowenthal. He's okay, I guess, but I expected him to zap his competition at some point to get rid of her. I guess all those hints of Ral shifting into black by MaRo are now pointless.
I really hope they deal with this Gideon and Chandra plotline during BFZ.
Your mods are terrified of me.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Fearther is locked away in Sunhome. According to the story Krenko, Mob Boss an Orzhov person sent Krenko into Sunhome to "free" her but it was just as a distraction. He broke the detention sphere she was in only for her to shortly thereafter be locked up again.
I think I prefer that he's been oblivious of some details, especially if it's something that supposedly has a one in a million million chance of occurring. Compile that with an overpopulated plane that makes it difficult to pick out. Kinda like a grain of sand on a beach.
He may never have observed a planes walker 'walking frequently enough to realize it was statistically significant. It's hard enough to grasp a concept that throws the laws of physics out the window.
That said, I find it amusing that Ral suggested Mizzet would have a reaction similar to the gods' discovery that everything they know is only an insignificantly small part of a whole multiverse.
Plus, the Izzet usually come across as easily distracted, with their whole "impulsive creativity" shtick. It's not too unthinkable that Niv-Mizzet never really cared about that sorta stuff up until now.
Having that said, I kinda hope Niv-Mizzet does know about planeswalkers and just wants to know more details or an actual pattern. Maybe he tries to find out how planeswalkers planeswalk and then try to emulate that.* It just seems odd that the angels of all things knew about planeswalkers and not a guild focused on knowledge and research.
*I'm not saying that Niv should be able to planeswalk eventually, but it would make sense for him to try to figure out how it works, and then try to invent a way to emulate that, fruitlessly so.
Just because he might know of planeswalkers doesn't mean he knows about the spark. It's not unreasonable to think for the uninformed that planeswalkers are just casting very powerful unique spells.
Why prevent others from walking into Ravnica when you can try to find a way to walk to other planes yourself?
But the people behind the barrier knew.
I think the idea was never "they must be going to other planes." I think it was "There is some clear spatial distortions around these people. We should try and figure out what's going on."
Well, due to its popularity, Ravnica is more than likely getting a revisit within the next five years or so, I imagine. Iquatana seems like the sort of world that would never work as a full block set and we are unlikely to see more samples from it in Core Sets now that Core Sets are no more. So, now that it is almost confirmed out of Origins, the only chances of getting more Iquatana are in special products like Commander. So, we are realistically looking at seeing somewhere between 0 and 3 Iquatana cards in the next decade, at best. While Ravnica could possibly get two blocks dedicated to it in the mean time.
So? How do you know that it's even a world worth while? How do you know it has anything more worth seeing? Maybe they decided that Iquatana was not something they wanted to explore. I'm sure there are plenty of worlds that got a card in Planechase that we wont ever see because that was all they were ever intended to have. I'm pretty sure that if we never go to Iquatana for even 1/10 of a set no one will really be that sad about it.
It is not just Iquatana, though. This might have been the best chance for exploring worlds that are not Block material on their own, yet still had potential for providing unique settings and it seems rather disappointing to me that we are getting mostly worlds that are very likely to get revisits anyway (Ravnica, Zendikar and Theros are almost confirmed).
I've seen "Underwater World" being requested at least twice in MaRo's blog (MaRo shot it down both times because he said it was too difficult to portray all five colors in such a world), and since I and another poster would like to see Iquatana as well and MaRo's answer implies that he (and maybe other people in the staff) had given it some thought, I would imagine it is not that rare an idea. Niche for a block, definitely, but it should be safe for 1/10th of a set, I would think. Note that Iquatana has also had relatively little build up creatively. Narcomoeba, Jace's Phantom and the Aether Flues seem mostly bottom-up designs that simply tie the world with Illusions and Memory Manipulation (both skills associated with Jace), so the world could have been given about any flavor that creative found fitting.
Note as well that the most popular things about Ravnica are the Guilds, the two color cards associated with them and some of the Paruns. Things that are going to be limited in a core set where Ravnica is going to be used mostly to give a setting to maybe 15-20 Jace-related cards (I imagine at least some cards will remain generic).
The deal breakers could be the amount of resources and time creative would need to invest on building the world from the little that exists. It might simply be too much to ask for more than 3 new fleshed out worlds in a block (and we've been promised some new worlds, at least). Plus, Jace is now the Living Guildpact, and as such might need bigger ties with Ravnica than a world he won't be visiting again any time soon like Iquatana. But it is still something that saddens me.
I'd like to see where this idea that Inaquatakabakasanpeiplane or whatever isn't going to be a world. They've confirmed that some of the planes featured in Origins will be new planes. Just because Jace/Chandra (and personally I believe more that Chandra will be the one to head to Ravnica, but I digress) are heading to Ravnica doesn't mean that Jace's homeworld can't be Inquatonikansa or whatever. In all seriousness, Iquatana isn't ruled out anywhere, and we don't know WHERE Jace comes from. He doesn't know either. Why are we saying it's for sure out?
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Well, Jace has said he has little to no memories of his home world. Yet Jace's Phantasm mentions that he is familiar with the Iquati "abstract memories". Thus, Iquatana can't be his home world (unless the Jace's Phantasm flavor text is set in the future, where he has rediscovered his past).
Jace already had a link to Iquatana in Jace's Phantasm, though. Possibly Jace's Mindseeker as well.
Planeswalker: Gideon
Home Plane: Theros
First-Planeswalk Plane: Bant
Planeswalker: Jace
Home Plane: Vryn
First-Planeswalk Plane: Ravnica
Planeswalker: Liliana
Home Plane: Dominaria
First-Planeswalk Plane: Innistrad
Planeswalker: Chandra
Home Plane: Kaladesh
First-Planeswalk Plane: Regatha
Planeswalker: Nissa
Home Plane: Zendikar
First-Planeswalk Plane: Lorwyn
My question is whether Kaladesh has ever been mentioned before as Chandra's home plane, and if not, does this spoiler lend support to the supposedly fake spoiled Chandra card?
Also, awesome to see Vryn finally. Rebound likely won't be a thing in Origins so soon after Dragons, but I'm still curious about the mechanics of the plane.
And Liliana's from Dominaria! Get excite!
I was wondering the same thing. Does anyone know if Kaladesh was a known plane before the spoiler?
revisiting Dominaria and Innistrad through young Lili's eyes should be very interesting.
and I asked this in another discussion, but isn't Regatha a Planechase plane? I'm too lazy to look it up.
Click the pic for more info.
Seriously some of these planes were the best of all time, others I will be excited to meet having 'visited'.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Also, its going to be nice to see dominaria again on cards after so long
Flipping Delvers since 2011
MY DECKS
Modern: UR Izzet Delver
Pauper: U Delver Faeries | R Red Burn | GInfect
Commander: WB Athreos, God of Passage | UR Keranos Spellslinger | GWU Derevi, Tempo Tactician | BGU Tasigur, the Golden Fang | RW Feather, the Redeemed