The land constantly changing on Zendikar wouldn't be blue. On Zendikar, the land isn't changing because some being is trying to forcibly improve the world, but because of natural processes. Green isn't opposed to change of any kind.
Actually the roil is completely chaotic and not a result from the natural worder, because quite literally it is Zendikar's immune system spazzing out to the Eldrazi's presence.
If anything Zendikar would be red.
However, as others have pointed out, the souls did not exist for flavour reasons. They were literally simply designed by development to give another high profile cycle of mythics for competitive. The soul association is just an afterthought by creative. As such I cannot really tell just how "canon" their name is. To me they are simply great elementals on their plane that the denizens simply call souls, but are not at all related to actual world souls.
As for cities, I believe a city itself is a deeply white concept. Cities are about structure and law. What cities represent though, i.e. civilization as a whole, is a blue concept, because civilizations usually try to advance and improve themselves. As always there are shades of grey instead of black and white alignment, but I'd consider cities first and foremost to be a white thing. With blue a close second.
Nope having some color affliations, or slight leaning towards a color is a good thing. It represents that magic is always everflowing. No one could ever say why so-and-so color is always good (blue the only exception). They have gotten better at it over the years.
Humans are bias, no matter how much some individuals may deny. The ebb and flow of colors also means less color-in-fighting, and more of "our time will come".
If Innistrad felt black, RTR felt blue, THS was white, and KtK red, does it mean that our next block will feel green? I would like to think it's true. Again lemme stress that these tendencies are very, very, slight but was perhaps thematically designed by creative this way.
Actually, considering Ravnica was pretty much a story of 10 guilds fighting each other via loopholes in the Guildpact and then doing it again when the Guildpact's backup triggered, all for pretty much their own selfish reasons of power... I'll say the plane was actually Black. Ravnica may a City-Plane, but the 10 powers that reside in it are clearly power-hungry parties that are only kept in check by a powerful binding contract. Yes, the contract itself was white in nature, but ultimately it was just a giant magically binding compromise between the 10 guilds so that the entire plane doesn't just fall to outright warfare - it's not like the normal residents of Ravnica had any say in the Guildpact, it was created and agreed by the same 10 major powers as well.
The plane looks structured on the surface because the Guildpact let the Azorius run the surface laws for most part, but actually the entire plane is more like a board of shareholders in a company constantly plotting to get a majority share of the company. Some just do it more actively than others, but the intent is generally there for every guild.
If Innistrad felt black, RTR felt blue, THS was white, and KtK red, does it mean that our next block will feel green? I would like to think it's true. Again lemme stress that these tendencies are very, very, slight but was perhaps thematically designed by creative this way.
This is was what I'm taking about when I say I hate the Soul cycle.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well, Rosewater's article today really does suggest that Tarkir 1.1 was intended to be even MORE flawed than 1.0. Whether or not one agrees with how well that panned out (although it's certainly worse from the non-draconian viewpoint. Draconian oppression vs. constant discord and strife...), one thing caught my attention. In the trope Rosewater refers to, the time traveler fixes what they THINK is the linchpin, and returns only to find things didn't go quite as planned.
In Vol's defense, he'd only recently been given the idea of restoring dragonkind. And I think his whole time in the Crux was less than a day. Add in his red psyche, and the odds are very much against him being able to analyze the situation well.
Anyway, at first glance (i.e. all the glance Vol had time for), saving Ugin's life was the linchpin. Ugin alive=dragon tempests persisting, right? But we know how not-so-well THAT worked for the khanates. If both 1.0 (constant warfare) and 1.1 (oppressed by dragons) are flawed, then it stands to reason that the Crux situation--the khanate/brood deadlock--is the "ideal". (Cue my hypotheses about Tarkir being an artificial plane created by Ugin, and quite a bit more stable than either Phyrexia or Serra's Realm, but with the problem of Ugin valuing balance over peace...or maybe even believing that absolute peace is a fool's desire.) So, what could Vol have done? He discounted attacking Bolas himself, which is understandable. Even in dragon form, he's not going to be a match for a pre-Mending planeswalker. So, what was left?
Then I realized--Yasova was left. If he'd swayed her, or even slain her, he would have kept her from dominating the minds of Ugin's reinforcements, and thus left Ugin with the upper hand. The real linchpin wasn't Ugin's death, but Yasova's intervention. But his panic over Bolas's mere presence on Tarkir shoved that out of the picture. Not to mention that with his psyche, he'd be quick to disregard non-draconian capabilities until it's too late.
On a side note, the above situation of Vol not wanting to get caught between Bolas and Ugin, and the last UR of him being glad he was small enough to avoid the notice of the Kolaghan brood, makes me think that for all his adulation of the draconian, he might actually have a powerful inferiority complex (and it's not like Zurgo 1.0's pre-Spark treatment of him helped matters). It would explain why he keeps choosing to seek guidance rather than truth--in his subconscious, he doesn't believe he has the competence to seek truth by himself. So, he looks to the strongest thing there is, and expects to imprint upon himself their absolute competence. He's...essentially rather immature. (Which makes one wonder how Ugin's beacon found just him, rather than Narset as well.) He's trying to attain strength effectively immediately, rather than develop it on his own. (Be warned that I haven't read the Alara novel.)
For all we know, it's Creative opening up the Elder type to conjoin with other creature types (Elder Hydra, Elder Demon, etc.). Not to mention this might be meant to be elder Dragon, not Elder Dragon. (Or is "elder" supposed to share etymology with "eldritch", rather than "alder"?)
[quote from="Jay13x »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/336902-uncharted-realms-discussions?comment=4321"] Because there is no explanation save for a f*%#&@g retcon...
No a recton wouldn't do it. The dragons on Tarkir couldn't possibly have been around for the Elder Dragon Wars. I'm thinking this is a change of definition on their part. These are ancient and powerful dragons which they want to set apart from others.
For all we know, it's Creative opening up the Elder type to conjoin with other creature types (Elder Hydra, Elder Demon, etc.). Not to mention this might be meant to be elder Dragon, not Elder Dragon. (Or is "elder" supposed to share etymology with "eldritch", rather than "alder"?)
Might be, but it does not make friggin sense to take a term that has twenty real years of established use and turn it completely around...
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Narset is probably Sultai, judging from her eyes. Switched her fate with Taigam. Sarkhan would be shocked at this revelation. Not all change is good. I expect to see the story unfold this week
Narset is probably Sultai, judging from her eyes. Switched her fate with Taigam. Sarkhan would be shocked at this revelation. Not all change is good. I expect to see the story unfold this week
Blue eyes make one Sultai?
The only thing that looks like Sultai is her golden breastplate...and even that might be just her walker attire.
Moreover, she is in a kind of martial art pose again....nope, not seeing the Sultai here.
Elder on one plane != Elder on another plane? After all, Theros' Gods are completely different types of beings from Lorwyn's Gods. And Innistrad's Vampires aren't undead like most Vampires on other planes. Not sure why this would be a problem.
This is my theory about the soul cycle
The soul cycle does appears focus on the Planeswalker protagonist rather than the flavor of the plane
Theros- Elspeth (with ajani doing something and Heliod assigning a role to elspeth) The Theros gods ruling stuff
Ravnica- blue- jace (also Niv Mizzet's meddling/research role) perhaps the nature of a maze and clue comprehension skills
Zendikar- Nissa (Although it can be argued that Sorin does stuff also rich in mana resource is green's thing) Loads of trees. Like the elves heavy tribal.
Innistrad Liliana (Sorin is orzhov color at this point) Also loads of gloom
soul of shandalar was originally soul of tarkir and I am not familiar as MaRo stated on his tumblr (I am not really familiar with shandalar lor exept for the wiki article and I can't find a b;ock)
If there is a soul of Tarkir then Sarkhan can represent the block with his time travel rule breaking (perhaps he kind learned to love from Narset)
Elder on one plane != Elder on another plane? After all, Theros' Gods are completely different types of beings from Lorwyn's Gods. And Innistrad's Vampires aren't undead like most Vampires on other planes. Not sure why this would be a problem.
Okay. Let us say that Wizards just retcon all zombies in Magic into Phyrexians. That is basically what happens here.
Taking a two decades established very specific term and applying it to something mundane and generic.
Never mind, question to Doug Beyer was sent. We will see.
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Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Okay. Let us say that Wizards just retcon all zombies in Magic into Phyrexians. That is basically what happens here.
It isn't. That's a hyperbole. It'd be like a new plane we haven't been to has zombies that the locals refer to as Phyrexians. Not every zombie on every plane, just like how not every dragon on every plane is now elder. It's more like the new slivers vs the old slivers. Look different, function different, both called Slivers, but aren't the same thing.
Okay. Let us say that Wizards just retcon all zombies in Magic into Phyrexians. That is basically what happens here.
It isn't. That's a hyperbole. It'd be like a new plane we haven't been to has zombies that the locals refer to as Phyrexians. Not every zombie on every plane, just like how not every dragon on every plane is now elder. It's more like the new slivers vs the old slivers. Look different, function different, both called Slivers, but aren't the same thing.
Well...the hyperbole was kind of the point of the post.
The real message is the next sentence...
The sliver example is, I admit, rather good. But this is even more difficult to swallow.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Narset is probably Sultai, judging from her eyes. Switched her fate with Taigam. Sarkhan would be shocked at this revelation. Not all change is good. I expect to see the story unfold this week
Blue eyes make one Sultai?
The only thing that looks like Sultai is her golden breastplate...and even that might be just her walker attire.
Moreover, she is in a kind of martial art pose again....nope, not seeing the Sultai here.
Where is this pic?
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Narset is probably Sultai, judging from her eyes. Switched her fate with Taigam. Sarkhan would be shocked at this revelation. Not all change is good. I expect to see the story unfold this week
Blue eyes make one Sultai?
The only thing that looks like Sultai is her golden breastplate...and even that might be just her walker attire.
Moreover, she is in a kind of martial art pose again....nope, not seeing the Sultai here.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Actually the roil is completely chaotic and not a result from the natural worder, because quite literally it is Zendikar's immune system spazzing out to the Eldrazi's presence.
If anything Zendikar would be red.
However, as others have pointed out, the souls did not exist for flavour reasons. They were literally simply designed by development to give another high profile cycle of mythics for competitive. The soul association is just an afterthought by creative. As such I cannot really tell just how "canon" their name is. To me they are simply great elementals on their plane that the denizens simply call souls, but are not at all related to actual world souls.
As for cities, I believe a city itself is a deeply white concept. Cities are about structure and law. What cities represent though, i.e. civilization as a whole, is a blue concept, because civilizations usually try to advance and improve themselves. As always there are shades of grey instead of black and white alignment, but I'd consider cities first and foremost to be a white thing. With blue a close second.
Humans are bias, no matter how much some individuals may deny. The ebb and flow of colors also means less color-in-fighting, and more of "our time will come".
If Innistrad felt black, RTR felt blue, THS was white, and KtK red, does it mean that our next block will feel green? I would like to think it's true. Again lemme stress that these tendencies are very, very, slight but was perhaps thematically designed by creative this way.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
The plane looks structured on the surface because the Guildpact let the Azorius run the surface laws for most part, but actually the entire plane is more like a board of shareholders in a company constantly plotting to get a majority share of the company. Some just do it more actively than others, but the intent is generally there for every guild.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
This is was what I'm taking about when I say I hate the Soul cycle.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Elder dragons. They just couldn't let this pass, right?
I mean, we know almost nothing about elder dragons and them BAM, 5 new ones. Hope they will care to explain
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TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
In Vol's defense, he'd only recently been given the idea of restoring dragonkind. And I think his whole time in the Crux was less than a day. Add in his red psyche, and the odds are very much against him being able to analyze the situation well.
Anyway, at first glance (i.e. all the glance Vol had time for), saving Ugin's life was the linchpin. Ugin alive=dragon tempests persisting, right? But we know how not-so-well THAT worked for the khanates. If both 1.0 (constant warfare) and 1.1 (oppressed by dragons) are flawed, then it stands to reason that the Crux situation--the khanate/brood deadlock--is the "ideal". (Cue my hypotheses about Tarkir being an artificial plane created by Ugin, and quite a bit more stable than either Phyrexia or Serra's Realm, but with the problem of Ugin valuing balance over peace...or maybe even believing that absolute peace is a fool's desire.) So, what could Vol have done? He discounted attacking Bolas himself, which is understandable. Even in dragon form, he's not going to be a match for a pre-Mending planeswalker. So, what was left?
Then I realized--Yasova was left. If he'd swayed her, or even slain her, he would have kept her from dominating the minds of Ugin's reinforcements, and thus left Ugin with the upper hand. The real linchpin wasn't Ugin's death, but Yasova's intervention. But his panic over Bolas's mere presence on Tarkir shoved that out of the picture. Not to mention that with his psyche, he'd be quick to disregard non-draconian capabilities until it's too late.
On a side note, the above situation of Vol not wanting to get caught between Bolas and Ugin, and the last UR of him being glad he was small enough to avoid the notice of the Kolaghan brood, makes me think that for all his adulation of the draconian, he might actually have a powerful inferiority complex (and it's not like Zurgo 1.0's pre-Spark treatment of him helped matters). It would explain why he keeps choosing to seek guidance rather than truth--in his subconscious, he doesn't believe he has the competence to seek truth by himself. So, he looks to the strongest thing there is, and expects to imprint upon himself their absolute competence. He's...essentially rather immature. (Which makes one wonder how Ugin's beacon found just him, rather than Narset as well.) He's trying to attain strength effectively immediately, rather than develop it on his own. (Be warned that I haven't read the Alara novel.)
This is the biggest, unprecedented flavcr fail in recent time. This is downright idiotic, ignorant....I am at loss of words.
Elder Dragons were a RACE. Not OLD Dragons. You were BORN as Elder, not became one by being dragon and growing old...
But it was a matter of time when the cuts on Creative bear fruit.
Man, I am pissed. I wonder how Doug Beyer explains this. Because there is no explanation save for a f*%#&@g retcon...
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
No a recton wouldn't do it. The dragons on Tarkir couldn't possibly have been around for the Elder Dragon Wars. I'm thinking this is a change of definition on their part. These are ancient and powerful dragons which they want to set apart from others.
Might be, but it does not make friggin sense to take a term that has twenty real years of established use and turn it completely around...
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Blue eyes make one Sultai?
The only thing that looks like Sultai is her golden breastplate...and even that might be just her walker attire.
Moreover, she is in a kind of martial art pose again....nope, not seeing the Sultai here.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
This is my theory about the soul cycle
The soul cycle does appears focus on the Planeswalker protagonist rather than the flavor of the plane
Theros- Elspeth (with ajani doing something and Heliod assigning a role to elspeth) The Theros gods ruling stuff
Ravnica- blue- jace (also Niv Mizzet's meddling/research role) perhaps the nature of a maze and clue comprehension skills
Zendikar- Nissa (Although it can be argued that Sorin does stuff also rich in mana resource is green's thing) Loads of trees. Like the elves heavy tribal.
Innistrad Liliana (Sorin is orzhov color at this point) Also loads of gloom
soul of shandalar was originally soul of tarkir and I am not familiar as MaRo stated on his tumblr (I am not really familiar with shandalar lor exept for the wiki article and I can't find a b;ock)
If there is a soul of Tarkir then Sarkhan can represent the block with his time travel rule breaking (perhaps he kind learned to love from Narset)
How canon are the core set and soul cycles
Okay. Let us say that Wizards just retcon all zombies in Magic into Phyrexians. That is basically what happens here.
Taking a two decades established very specific term and applying it to something mundane and generic.
Never mind, question to Doug Beyer was sent. We will see.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
It isn't. That's a hyperbole. It'd be like a new plane we haven't been to has zombies that the locals refer to as Phyrexians. Not every zombie on every plane, just like how not every dragon on every plane is now elder. It's more like the new slivers vs the old slivers. Look different, function different, both called Slivers, but aren't the same thing.
Well...the hyperbole was kind of the point of the post.
The real message is the next sentence...
The sliver example is, I admit, rather good. But this is even more difficult to swallow.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/112529400134/doug-please-explain-why-is-silumgar-an-elder
not sure i got everything, but...
Point 2 seems to be the important to us. Point 1 to the new players, and point 3 to all that dont read UR...
No signature yet.
Where is this pic?
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Here is the article
Here s the picture