I don't think it counts as firmly green if the card is a hybrid card. I give you the multicolour cards, but if a troll is hybrid black, then I imagine it is possible for it to be mono black.
There is a few red/white and red/blue goblins, but I doubt we'll get monowhite/blue goblins.
As a big fan of Liliana I really enjoyed that little story. It is intriguing since it looks like basically her entire life was a set up planned by the Onakke and the mysterious Raven Man.
I find it very interesting as well. Makes you wonder why. And when. Why was Liliana chosen to be part of this multi planar conspiracy? Was is because she is a Planeswalker? Because she is a Necromancer of immense power? Because the puppet masters that be (Raven Man) think that the Chain Veil may be able to turn her into their Vader? What made these guys pick her over some other walker or, gods forbid, a native of Shandalar?
And when was she chosen? Was she chosen at birth? When she killed her Brother? When she ascended? When she made the pact with the demons?
Also, what part did Kothophed play in this? Did the Raven Man somehow manipulate him into sending Lili to get the Veil? What did he want with this artifact?
So many questions about Liliana's storyline. I need more.
As a big fan of Liliana I really enjoyed that little story. It is intriguing since it looks like basically her entire life was a set up planned by the Onakke and the mysterious Raven Man.
I find it very interesting as well. Makes you wonder why. And when. Why was Liliana chosen to be part of this multi planar conspiracy? Was is because she is a Planeswalker? Because she is a Necromancer of immense power? Because the puppet masters that be (Raven Man) think that the Chain Veil may be able to turn her into their Vader? What made these guys pick her over some other walker or, gods forbid, a native of Shandalar?
And when was she chosen? Was she chosen at birth? When she killed her Brother? When she ascended? When she made the pact with the demons?
Also, what part did Kothophed play in this? Did the Raven Man somehow manipulate him into sending Lili to get the Veil? What did he want with this artifact?
So many questions about Liliana's storyline. I need more.
A lot of good questions, but I get the feeling that Nicol Bolas is behind the Raven Man, considering he's been responsible for manipulating our main Red walker and two Blue planeswalkers (Jace, Tezzeret) to varying degrees, I would NOT be surprised if he did in fact have tabs on Liliana.
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3WWU, 2GWW, and 4RWW! These were the mana costs chosen to summon the perfect little angel! But Professor Avacyn accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction! Chemical x Thus, the Powerpuff Girls were born! Using their ultra super powers, Gisela, Bruna, and Sigarda have dedicated their lives to fighting crime and the forces of evil!
wait when has raven man been shown besides with liliana?
He hasn't.
I'm quite honestly not even close to being sure where he could have possibly gotten that impression to start with.
Ramaz manipulated Chandra and Bolas appears to have played the odds with Jace. Tezzeret has never had any outside influence to get where he is.
you know i think i misread his post i guess he was talking about bolas directly manipulating those planeswalkers while i thought he was saying he'd used raven man to manipulate them.
edit and i don't know just because bolas didn;t use agents with those planeswalkers doesn't mean that he couldn't/wouldn't use them on other planeswalkers.
I don't think it counts as firmly green if the card is a hybrid card. I give you the multicolour cards, but if a troll is hybrid black, then I imagine it is possible for it to be mono black.
There is a few red/white and red/blue goblins, but I doubt we'll get monowhite/blue goblins.
Touche, but still, if you think about it there's nothing inherent about trolls that prevents them from being mono-B. It'd even fit mechanically. There just hasn't been any precedent, but as I've shown with faeries, and also the Lorwyn goblins, precedent means little in a setting with countless of different planes of existence.
If I can hop back to the Onakke for a second, why is everyone assuming the ogres depicted here are demonic and evil? The way I understood it from this UR, the Onakke were destroyed by an unknown force (possibly the veil itself) and the fact that Liliana saw the raven in the aftermath hints that Raven Man has some connection to it.
The Onakke spirit appearing before Liliana may have something to do with the veil being in presence of the tribe's remains. Perhaps the force of destruction trapped their spirits within the veil, hence all that "a million in one" and "freeing them" talk she keeps hearing. The spirits obviously have a link to her mind, being able to use what happened to her brother to show this. As foreboding as they seem to be, I don't believe they are malevolent. It almost gives me a Japanese Ghost story vibe. The spirits are trying to tell her something in the only way they can. Any further speculation would hedge on baseless, but I feel that Liliana may end up doing something good for all the wrong reasons (if you've ever played Cthulu Saves the World, the "evil does good for evil reasons" trope shouldn't be new to you).
I don't think Bolas has anything to do with this one. If Bolas was aware of a power-enhancing artifact, I think he'd be all over that faster than Wizards banning Skullclamp.
If I can hop back to the Onakke for a second, why is everyone assuming the ogres depicted here are demonic and evil? The way I understood it from this UR, the Onakke were destroyed by an unknown force (possibly the veil itself) and the fact that Liliana saw the raven in the aftermath hints that Raven Man has some connection to it.
The Onakke spirit appearing before Liliana may have something to do with the veil being in presence of the tribe's remains. Perhaps the force of destruction trapped their spirits within the veil, hence all that "a million in one" and "freeing them" talk she keeps hearing. The spirits obviously have a link to her mind, being able to use what happened to her brother to show this. As foreboding as they seem to be, I don't believe they are malevolent. It almost gives me a Japanese Ghost story vibe. The spirits are trying to tell her something in the only way they can. Any further speculation would hedge on baseless, but I feel that Liliana may end up doing something good for all the wrong reasons (if you've ever played Cthulu Saves the World, the "evil does good for evil reasons" trope shouldn't be new to you).
I don't think Bolas has anything to do with this one. If Bolas was aware of a power-enhancing artifact, I think he'd be all over that faster than Wizards banning Skullclamp.
I believe the assumption that the Onakke are responsible comes from the flavor test of Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient, which implies that the Chain Veil is part of a plot to pave the way for the Onakke's return. However, you might be on to something about the Raven Man being involved in their destruction.
I don't want to get too far off-topic, but I have a quick couple thoughts about the Raven Man - MaRo and others have said that one goal for post-Mending creative was to establish a "Rogue's Gallery" for MtG - hence the return of the Phyrexians, Nicol Bolas being built up as a villain, and the creation of the Eldrazi. Could the Raven Man be part of that plan as well? He is arguably Liliana's true adversary, and by manipulating her, has at least affected Garruk, indirectly influenced events on Innistrad (again, through Lili's actions), and presumably will have a hand in many events to come. So who or what is this guy? Either he can cross planes or he is manifesting himself from within Liliana. (The Seed that was planted?) The Raven Man being a long-term manipulator could point to Bolas, of course, but I'm wondering if he's instead connected to some other villain from MtG's past. (It' a shame Lili's not native to Shandalar, otherwise I'd suggest Lim-Dul's spirit.) Any ideas?
As for the Onakke themselves - I agree changing them from trolls to ogres is probably one of the more blatant retcons in recent memory, and also agree it was probably due to the fact that the flavor of Trolls (heavily Green-affiliated) runs counter to the idea of the Onakke being artificers.
I too would love to see Lim-Dul brought back into the story due to his connection to Shandalar. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I wouldn't mind if he were somehow connected to the Chain Veil, but I fear that the Onakke residing in it or through it would limit that possibility (but just as Mairsil influenced LIm-Dul through the ring, I think it'd be neat to have Lim-Dul try to influence Liliana via the veil).
The Raven Man thread seems so mysterious that WotC would be able to take him in any direction. His interplanar appears suggests he may be a planeswalker, but nothing else he has done seems planeswalker-like. He seems much more mysterious...
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
If I can hop back to the Onakke for a second, why is everyone assuming the ogres depicted here are demonic and evil? The way I understood it from this UR, the Onakke were destroyed by an unknown force (possibly the veil itself) and the fact that Liliana saw the raven in the aftermath hints that Raven Man has some connection to it.
The Onakke spirit appearing before Liliana may have something to do with the veil being in presence of the tribe's remains. Perhaps the force of destruction trapped their spirits within the veil, hence all that "a million in one" and "freeing them" talk she keeps hearing. The spirits obviously have a link to her mind, being able to use what happened to her brother to show this. As foreboding as they seem to be, I don't believe they are malevolent. It almost gives me a Japanese Ghost story vibe. The spirits are trying to tell her something in the only way they can. Any further speculation would hedge on baseless, but I feel that Liliana may end up doing something good for all the wrong reasons (if you've ever played Cthulu Saves the World, the "evil does good for evil reasons" trope shouldn't be new to you).
I don't think Bolas has anything to do with this one. If Bolas was aware of a power-enhancing artifact, I think he'd be all over that faster than Wizards banning Skullclamp.
I believe the assumption that the Onakke are responsible comes from the flavor test of Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient, which implies that the Chain Veil is part of a plot to pave the way for the Onakke's return. However, you might be on to something about the Raven Man being involved in their destruction.
I don't want to get too far off-topic, but I have a quick couple thoughts about the Raven Man - MaRo and others have said that one goal for post-Mending creative was to establish a "Rogue's Gallery" for MtG - hence the return of the Phyrexians, Nicol Bolas being built up as a villain, and the creation of the Eldrazi. Could the Raven Man be part of that plan as well? He is arguably Liliana's true adversary, and by manipulating her, has at least affected Garruk, indirectly influenced events on Innistrad (again, through Lili's actions), and presumably will have a hand in many events to come. So who or what is this guy? Either he can cross planes or he is manifesting himself from within Liliana. (The Seed that was planted?) The Raven Man being a long-term manipulator could point to Bolas, of course, but I'm wondering if he's instead connected to some other villain from MtG's past. (It' a shame Lili's not native to Shandalar, otherwise I'd suggest Lim-Dul's spirit.) Any ideas?
As for the Onakke themselves - I agree changing them from trolls to ogres is probably one of the more blatant retcons in recent memory, and also agree it was probably due to the fact that the flavor of Trolls (heavily Green-affiliated) runs counter to the idea of the Onakke being artificers.
Wow, I missed that flavor text completely. Kinda makes a good portion of my statement null and void. Thanks for that catch.
If the raven Man is indeed a walker, there is still the chance (super model slim) of it involving Lim-Dul. His soul was sealed away but I don't remember that being specific about where. If the Onakke were patrons of the dark arts, they could have very well unearthed (word choice?) the necromancer's sealed soul and built an artifact from its power.
Only other thing that comes to mind from older magic would be Mairsil, but I'm 90% sure Jaya blew him up when she ascended.
Lili disliking angels is well-established, in both cards and comics.
She finds them to be meddlesome and their self-proclaimed moral high ground to be insufferable at pest and oppressive at worst.
A bit miffed that the Onakke aren't trolls anymore, because trolls have always been my favorite creature type, but it's really not a big deal.
Them being trolls now changes nothing from before because there really wasn't anything from before.
I am not enamored with Matt Knicl's style in any of his short stories, as they feel very unpolished. He crammed a lot of Shandalaran references in, which, by-and-large, is probably a good move to keep things cohesive (and while I felt it was stretching too far to include Talrand just for the sake of mentioning as many Shandalaran things as possible, cheating him out of a marriage was funny). I appreciated the "continuation" (of sorts) of Jennifer Clarke Wilkes's sliver short story from last summer.
My favorite reference, however, was the exposition:
The city was a cesspool of corruption, thievery, and murder; a reflection, some said, of a mysterious and evil god they claim founded the city centuries before. The god was long gone, but his stain still covered and twisted Lesh, home to cults dedicated to Xathrid demons and agents of the Vaasgoth vampires.
That god is undoubtedly Leshrac Nightwalker, who toyed for a while on Shandalar with Tevash Szat before they left Lim-Dul there. Any reference to prerevisionist history is good in my book.
Again, I like the continued building of cohesive storylines that Uncharted Realms have been providing us.
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
The story felt like an exercise in "how many references can we fit of places/people of Shandalar in this short story?"
The slivers not doing their "kill intruders on sight" thing was a bit interesting. The Hivelord seemed intrigued by Jalira and Yisan. I'm pretty sure it sensed them both since it was able to exert its will upon them when the two were disguised as sivers.
They made an attempt in rationalizing old and new slivers together. It's believable but I doubt it will change the minds of anyone who hates the new Slivers.
VYAzelas, I agree that I liked the rationalization of the old and new sliver design. Jennifer Clarke Wilkes gave enough to go on in her original short story that Matt Knicl's edits to the hierarchy in Skep was believable. As for Leshrac references, don't forget the nods to prerevision that Wilkes gave us in "Prisoner of the Skep":
The echoes of ancient mage wars still rang here, preserved in weird formations of unnatural stone and amber shapes that sprouted like some unholy forest from the wave-battered cliffs. Every rock, it seemed, held ancient monsters birthed in a primordial chaos, now preserved as eternal shadows in the tortured earth.
Here we get reference to the wars waged by Lim-Dul and later the wars of the MicroProse Shandalar game.
I am dying for an opportunity to write a short story for Uncharted Realms to make some explicit connections between prerevisionist Shandalar and our return to the plane!!
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
I like how they explained how the Alpha Slivers (The new ones) only affect slivers you control. It's because the Alphas only allow slivers near to them to evolve. Anyone else notice that?
They made an attempt in rationalizing old and new slivers together. It's believable but I doubt it will change the minds of anyone who hates the new Slivers.
I'll give them that it was at least an attempt, but you're right. I still think the new SINOs are an abomination.
EDIT: And I agree with ilovesaprolings, her ability to turn them both into slivers not five minutes after first encountering one was a huge cop out.
It does feel like a cop-out but who knows? Maybe there are books on Sliver physiology and she read some without telling anyone.
I'm assuming Sliver DNA is highly dynamic so if you manage to polymorph yourself into a true Sliver, you'll be subject to the same physical changes and hivemind as a normal sliver would. They don't explain how polymorphing works in MTG so it's tough to say.
It does feel like a cop-out but who knows? Maybe there are books on Sliver physiology and she read some without telling anyone.
I'm assuming Sliver DNA is highly dynamic so if you manage to polymorph yourself into a true Sliver, you'll be subject to the same physical changes and hivemind as a normal sliver would. They don't explain how polymorphing works in MTG so it's tough to say.
She made it a point to mention how excited she was to be one of the first people to study the creatures, so I doubt there are just Tomes of Eldritch Sliver Lore lying around she could have been boning up on.
EDIT: I want to stress again how much this story felt like REFERENCE ALL THE SHANDALARS!, as if the author had a checklist of every card that was supposed to be Shandalarian and had to hit the boxes. "Xanthrid? Check. Vaasgoth? Check. Eloren Wilds? Check." He spent more time trying to shove the ShandaLore down our throat than he did on any kind of character development or, I don't know, thinking through his plot to find all the holes in the logic.
EDIT TO THE EDIT: ShandaLore is my new favorite portmanteau.
EDIT THE THIRD: I also forgot to mention how much the Silver/Sliver pun doesn't work when you think about it. They don't speak English on Shandalar, so unless they conveniently happen to have Shandalarian words for "sliver" and "silver" that are one letter off, it breaks down the minute you take a step back.
There is a few red/white and red/blue goblins, but I doubt we'll get monowhite/blue goblins.
I find it very interesting as well. Makes you wonder why. And when. Why was Liliana chosen to be part of this multi planar conspiracy? Was is because she is a Planeswalker? Because she is a Necromancer of immense power? Because the puppet masters that be (Raven Man) think that the Chain Veil may be able to turn her into their Vader? What made these guys pick her over some other walker or, gods forbid, a native of Shandalar?
And when was she chosen? Was she chosen at birth? When she killed her Brother? When she ascended? When she made the pact with the demons?
Also, what part did Kothophed play in this? Did the Raven Man somehow manipulate him into sending Lili to get the Veil? What did he want with this artifact?
So many questions about Liliana's storyline. I need more.
When asking for if something was stolen on Kamigawa:
Have some irony:
He hasn't.
I'm quite honestly not even close to being sure where he could have possibly gotten that impression to start with.
Ramaz manipulated Chandra and Bolas appears to have played the odds with Jace. Tezzeret has never had any outside influence to get where he is.
edit and i don't know just because bolas didn;t use agents with those planeswalkers doesn't mean that he couldn't/wouldn't use them on other planeswalkers.
Touche, but still, if you think about it there's nothing inherent about trolls that prevents them from being mono-B. It'd even fit mechanically. There just hasn't been any precedent, but as I've shown with faeries, and also the Lorwyn goblins, precedent means little in a setting with countless of different planes of existence.
I don't think Bolas has anything to do with this one. If Bolas was aware of a power-enhancing artifact, I think he'd be all over that faster than Wizards banning Skullclamp.
I believe the assumption that the Onakke are responsible comes from the flavor test of Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient, which implies that the Chain Veil is part of a plot to pave the way for the Onakke's return. However, you might be on to something about the Raven Man being involved in their destruction.
I don't want to get too far off-topic, but I have a quick couple thoughts about the Raven Man - MaRo and others have said that one goal for post-Mending creative was to establish a "Rogue's Gallery" for MtG - hence the return of the Phyrexians, Nicol Bolas being built up as a villain, and the creation of the Eldrazi. Could the Raven Man be part of that plan as well? He is arguably Liliana's true adversary, and by manipulating her, has at least affected Garruk, indirectly influenced events on Innistrad (again, through Lili's actions), and presumably will have a hand in many events to come. So who or what is this guy? Either he can cross planes or he is manifesting himself from within Liliana. (The Seed that was planted?) The Raven Man being a long-term manipulator could point to Bolas, of course, but I'm wondering if he's instead connected to some other villain from MtG's past. (It' a shame Lili's not native to Shandalar, otherwise I'd suggest Lim-Dul's spirit.) Any ideas?
As for the Onakke themselves - I agree changing them from trolls to ogres is probably one of the more blatant retcons in recent memory, and also agree it was probably due to the fact that the flavor of Trolls (heavily Green-affiliated) runs counter to the idea of the Onakke being artificers.
I too would love to see Lim-Dul brought back into the story due to his connection to Shandalar. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I wouldn't mind if he were somehow connected to the Chain Veil, but I fear that the Onakke residing in it or through it would limit that possibility (but just as Mairsil influenced LIm-Dul through the ring, I think it'd be neat to have Lim-Dul try to influence Liliana via the veil).
The Raven Man thread seems so mysterious that WotC would be able to take him in any direction. His interplanar appears suggests he may be a planeswalker, but nothing else he has done seems planeswalker-like. He seems much more mysterious...
Wow, I missed that flavor text completely. Kinda makes a good portion of my statement null and void. Thanks for that catch.
If the raven Man is indeed a walker, there is still the chance (super model slim) of it involving Lim-Dul. His soul was sealed away but I don't remember that being specific about where. If the Onakke were patrons of the dark arts, they could have very well unearthed (word choice?) the necromancer's sealed soul and built an artifact from its power.
Only other thing that comes to mind from older magic would be Mairsil, but I'm 90% sure Jaya blew him up when she ascended.
She finds them to be meddlesome and their self-proclaimed moral high ground to be insufferable at pest and oppressive at worst.
A bit miffed that the Onakke aren't trolls anymore, because trolls have always been my favorite creature type, but it's really not a big deal.
Them being trolls now changes nothing from before because there really wasn't anything from before.
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I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
When asking for if something was stolen on Kamigawa:
Have some irony:
bad that Geralf n gissa are kind of dead :\
No, but being serrious have someone been able to see any articles today?
anyone else think we will see a UR where Yisan takes over Shandalar with an army of slivers?
When asking for if something was stolen on Kamigawa:
Have some irony:
My favorite reference, however, was the exposition:
That god is undoubtedly Leshrac Nightwalker, who toyed for a while on Shandalar with Tevash Szat before they left Lim-Dul there. Any reference to prerevisionist history is good in my book.
Again, I like the continued building of cohesive storylines that Uncharted Realms have been providing us.
When asking for if something was stolen on Kamigawa:
Have some irony:
The slivers not doing their "kill intruders on sight" thing was a bit interesting. The Hivelord seemed intrigued by Jalira and Yisan. I'm pretty sure it sensed them both since it was able to exert its will upon them when the two were disguised as sivers.
They made an attempt in rationalizing old and new slivers together. It's believable but I doubt it will change the minds of anyone who hates the new Slivers.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
Well don't that beat all.
I also found it fascinating that the Hivelord could detect that they were not actually slivers somehow.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
Here we get reference to the wars waged by Lim-Dul and later the wars of the MicroProse Shandalar game.
I am dying for an opportunity to write a short story for Uncharted Realms to make some explicit connections between prerevisionist Shandalar and our return to the plane!!
EDIT: And I agree with ilovesaprolings, her ability to turn them both into slivers not five minutes after first encountering one was a huge cop out.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
I'm assuming Sliver DNA is highly dynamic so if you manage to polymorph yourself into a true Sliver, you'll be subject to the same physical changes and hivemind as a normal sliver would. They don't explain how polymorphing works in MTG so it's tough to say.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
EDIT: I want to stress again how much this story felt like REFERENCE ALL THE SHANDALARS!, as if the author had a checklist of every card that was supposed to be Shandalarian and had to hit the boxes. "Xanthrid? Check. Vaasgoth? Check. Eloren Wilds? Check." He spent more time trying to shove the ShandaLore down our throat than he did on any kind of character development or, I don't know, thinking through his plot to find all the holes in the logic.
EDIT TO THE EDIT: ShandaLore is my new favorite portmanteau.
EDIT THE THIRD: I also forgot to mention how much the Silver/Sliver pun doesn't work when you think about it. They don't speak English on Shandalar, so unless they conveniently happen to have Shandalarian words for "sliver" and "silver" that are one letter off, it breaks down the minute you take a step back.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!