Yeah, I really enjoyed this story a lot. Inclusion is an issue that's very important to me, and seeing a gay couple treated seriously and respectfully on dailymtg made my day like you wouldn't believe. Yes, it was a tragedy that ended in a double suicide, which is all too common in queer romance stories. But seeing as how it was very in character with ancient Greek romances, which were almost always tragic, and was very tastefully done besides, I'll let that pass.
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The Planeswalker's Guide to Theros did make him out to be level-headed and a somewhat nice guy. It does seem out of character for him to offer solace to Pavios, but they never made him out to be cruel or aloof. I think he's very well done and close to who Hades actually was in the Greek myths.
"Erebos is an effective warden and lord of the Underworld realm. He is not without compassion, but his compassion is limited to feeling on behalf of others what he himself feels, and his acceptance of his fate means that his lieges, the dead, must accept theirs. He idly envies the sunlit world of the living, but only in a daydream-like way. He knows that all mortal souls will eventually join him, which affords him a kind of satisfaction and certainty. When others suffer, it brings Erebos peace, but not glee, because the alienation and banishment of others enables them to identify with his own."
He mostly just seems slightly miffed over his position, but is still content with it.
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So, we got a look into Kiora this week!
And the implication is that she might know Talrund.
In other news though, we got a look into how a merfolk views the eternities and I am happy to see that there's a different perspective being presented. I've tried to write something similar in the past, and it really makes you stop and consider how much we take our perspective for granted. Anyways...
One major question that jumps up is what is WITH Zendikar that it creates such... bigoted people?
And the implication is that she might know Talrand.
Better yet, she doesn't think much of him.
Condescending is as condescending does, I suppose.
In other news though, we got a look into how a merfolk views the eternities and I am happy to see that there's a different perspective being presented. I've tried to write something similar in the past, and it really makes you stop and consider how much we take our perspective for granted.
Agreed. I thoroughly enjoyed reading all of that.
Anyways...
One major question that jumps up is what is WITH Zendikar that it creates such... bigoted people?
I don't think it's an inherently Zendikarian thing, the biggest "cities" on Zendikar tend to be a mishmash of all sorts of races, it's just the circumstances of being a merfolk ("Oh, your body can't separate oxygen from water? Pity.") and traveling the verse so that there's so many planes where she can access more than the drywalkers which just constantly reinforces her bigotry.
Consider that the two native Zendikari planeswalkers we've met are both green with some smaller affinity for black as well. With that color combination, it would make sense that a sense of "racial/biological superiority" would be present in both. Green's acknowledgement of the principle of "survival of the fittest" combined with black's egotism.
I'm happy to have a story written in Kiora's voice, it paints a much clearer picture of what she's like. Arrogant, manipulative, and only concerned with what she sees as the biggest and the best that the sea has to offer; even other merfolk don't impress her much, other than the one who's savvy enough to see through her charade. He's intelligent (and attractive) enough to keep her interest.
More development of the main Theros story, too. So the hydra Elspeth kills belonged to Nylea, and to keep the situation from escalating Kruphix separated the gods from the mortal realm. It surprises me that one of the minor gods has that kind of power over the entire pantheon; though it seems that Kruphix is, at least in part, the god of boundaries, so forcibly separating Nyx and Theros could logically fall within his domain. He's also the eldest of the gods. I really want to meet him now, not that I didn't before.
So, we got a look into Kiora this week!
And the implication is that she might know Talrund.
In other news though, we got a look into how a merfolk views the eternities and I am happy to see that there's a different perspective being presented. I've tried to write something similar in the past, and it really makes you stop and consider how much we take our perspective for granted. Anyways...
One major question that jumps up is what is WITH Zendikar that it creates such... bigoted people?
Well, when your world is constantly trying to kill you, I guess it's easy to feel superior to people who live on nice, tame worlds.
I quite liked this week's entry too, not least because I've been itching for more info on Kiora. I rather expected her to be meaner, considering the way she was described by WotC previously. Interesting indeed that Kruphix is described as the eldest of the gods! Since she, he, or they are the god of boundaries, I could perhaps Kruphix as the one who created the world by separating the land from the water from the sky.
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Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
One major question that jumps up is what is WITH Zendikar that it creates such... bigoted people?
And I also think it some natural for planes walkers to like their home plane more then the rest.
One thing I really liked about this was Kiora seeing more of her U, she was just feeling like a Gcharacter who is Ubecause she is a merfolk.
I also found it funny they added some minor info about the UG god Kruphix with a Kiora story.
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I love the concept of each world's seas having a "taste", because that's very much a mer way of experiencing the world.
I find the Silence (which, I'm pretty sure, this is the first mention of) interesting because it seems the opposite of what we saw through the cards of BNG with the Nyxborn bleeding through into Theros. Where does this story fit into the timeline of the plot? Clearly this is after Elspeth slayed the hydra, but is this before Xenagos worked his mojo with the Great Revel? Or did Kruphix close off Nyx in response to Xenagogo's intrusion?
+1 to Silence being opposite to what we've seen in BNG and hydra not sounding like a big deal before. Maybe Kruphix closed Nyx because of Xenagod and pantheon made Elspeth a scapegoat? Because... if Silence is there right after slaying the Hydra, there will be at least some people pissed off because of the sudden absense of gods and Elspeth wouldn't be so popular like she was?
Interesting indeed that Kruphix is described as the eldest of the gods! Since she, he, or they are the god of boundaries, I could perhaps Kruphix as the one who created the world by separating the land from the water from the sky.
Yes! Kruphix sounds so awesome! I think you're totally correct that he (I think someone at Wizards...probably Doug...previously described Kruphix as a "he") is the (or one of the) creator gods that gave shape to the land and sea. It would make perfect sense as his being the god of horizons and boundaries, being both green and blue aligned (thus having connections with both the land and the sea), and the art of Temple of Mystery being a large tree at the end of the sea/world. Now I can't wait to see Kruphix on a card! He'd better be as awesome as the storyline makes him out to be!
I also really liked how this week's Uncharted Realms portrayed Kiora. Like someone else mentioned, she's not quite as mean as Wizards had originally hinted, she's just not very concerned with the consequences of her actions on the worlds that she visits. That isn't terribly surprising, though, since it seems that all but white-aligned Planeswalkers have a somewhat similar outlook. Koth only really cared about stopping the Phyrexian contagion on Mirrodin. Nissa (kind of a bad example because she is kind of a jerk) only wanted to stop the Eldrazi threat to Zendikar, even if that meant the destruction of other planes (at the hands of said Eldrazi). Tamiyo had no interest in the fate of Innistrad beyond how it would affect her research. And then there are all of the black-aligned Planeswalkers which I'm not even going to get into.
Anyhow, I really like where this story is going, and I have a much bigger interest in "The Silence," Kruphix, Kiora and her interactions with Thassa, and the giants of the deep that Kiora finds than of Xenagos and Elspeth's little debacle.
Since she, he, or they are the god of boundaries, I could perhaps Kruphix as the one who created the world by separating the land from the water from the sky.
None of the gods created Theros in anything except mythology. It's a major thing since Theros created the gods and not the other way around.
I also really liked how this week's Uncharted Realms portrayed Kiora. Like someone else mentioned, she's not quite as mean as Wizards had originally hinted, she's just not very concerned with the consequences of her actions on the worlds that she visits. That isn't terribly surprising, though, since it seems that all but white-aligned Planeswalkers have a somewhat similar outlook. Koth only really cared about stopping the Phyrexian contagion on Mirrodin. Nissa (kind of a bad example because she is kind of a jerk) only wanted to stop the Eldrazi threat to Zendikar, even if that meant the destruction of other planes (at the hands of said Eldrazi). Tamiyo had no interest in the fate of Innistrad beyond how it would affect her research. And then there are all of the black-aligned Planeswalkers which I'm not even going to get into.
Well, there's also Chandra (albeit in the occasions she was concerned it was due to people she personally cared about), Jace (primarily concerned about Ravnica, but also occasionally demonstrating kindness elsewhere, like his brief moment in Zendikar where he aided a struggling family), Garruk (who did feel pity for the people of Innistrad) and pre-Innistrad Sorin (who did try to save the multiverse, if for no other reason than to not die).
Oh, I know. I meant in the mythology of Theros, Kruphix might be the creator god. Especially since they're apparently considered the "eldest" of the gods, whatever that means. Considering how they're all frauds, I'm not sure how we should really take *any* of the gods' claims. Is Thassa really the god of the sea? She didn't create it. The sea existed before she did, and if she died it's implied now that it would continue to exist just fine without her. Karametra doesn't really cause the harvests, things would still continue to grow and be eaten without her.
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Oh, I know. I meant in the mythology of Theros, Kruphix might be the creator god. Especially since they're apparently considered the "eldest" of the gods, whatever that means. Considering how they're all frauds, I'm not sure how we should really take *any* of the gods' claims. Is Thassa really the god of the sea? She didn't create it. The sea existed before she did, and if she died it's implied now that it would continue to exist just fine without her. Karametra doesn't really cause the harvests, things would still continue to grow and be eaten without her.
But the same is true in Greek mythology: the pantheon of gods, such as Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, etc, didn't actually create the world. Their ancestors did. If Poseidon died, the sea would continue to exist. If Hades died, people would still die like normal. There may be some upheaval (especially in Hades's case, since he is responsible for keeping order in the Underworld), but things wouldn't just stop functioning. The same is true on Theros. The gods are the wardens of their respective realms, and the power that they exercise over it is nearly absolute. They are, for all intents and purposes, gods on Theros, in function and in name. Just because they didn't make the world doesn't make them any less powerful over it now. The "fraud" part that Xenagos was trying to expose is that there's a much larger multiverse outside of Theros where the gods aren't all-powerful. What worries the gods about Xenagos's ascension to godhood is the fact that the separation between god and mortal has been breached, creating somewhat of a puncture in the absolute authority of the gods. This is kind of a deviation from the Greek mythology source material, where mortals became gods on an almost regular basis.
Anyhow, my point is that nowhere is it stated that the gods aren't responsible for creating Theros. Given what we've read about the powers of the gods so far, it's completely within the realm of possibilities, especially when Kruphix apparently has the power to "Silence" the gods in the realm of mortals on Theros. It is completely possible that he is the one that gave shape to the land and sea on Theros. Heck, if less powerful mortals on other planes could easily do such things, why couldn't a god?
Oh, I know. I meant in the mythology of Theros, Kruphix might be the creator god. Especially since they're apparently considered the "eldest" of the gods, whatever that means. Considering how they're all frauds, I'm not sure how we should really take *any* of the gods' claims. Is Thassa really the god of the sea? She didn't create it. The sea existed before she did, and if she died it's implied now that it would continue to exist just fine without her. Karametra doesn't really cause the harvests, things would still continue to grow and be eaten without her.
But the same is true in Greek mythology: the pantheon of gods, such as Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, etc, didn't actually create the world. Their ancestors did. If Poseidon died, the sea would continue to exist. If Hades died, people would still die like normal. There may be some upheaval (especially in Hades's case, since he is responsible for keeping order in the Underworld), but things wouldn't just stop functioning. The same is true on Theros. The gods are the wardens of their respective realms, and the power that they exercise over it is nearly absolute. They are, for all intents and purposes, gods on Theros, in function and in name. Just because they didn't make the world doesn't make them any less powerful over it now. The "fraud" part that Xenagos was trying to expose is that there's a much larger multiverse outside of Theros where the gods aren't all-powerful. What worries the gods about Xenagos's ascension to godhood is the fact that the separation between god and mortal has been breached, creating somewhat of a puncture in the absolute authority of the gods. This is kind of a deviation from the Greek mythology source material, where mortals became gods on an almost regular basis.
Anyhow, my point is that nowhere is it stated that the gods aren't responsible for creating Theros. Given what we've read about the powers of the gods so far, it's completely within the realm of possibilities, especially when Kruphix apparently has the power to "Silence" the gods in the realm of mortals on Theros. It is completely possible that he is the one that gave shape to the land and sea on Theros. Heck, if less powerful mortals on other planes could easily do such things, why couldn't a god?
Well, as far as the most accepted Theogony is, anyways. It's also worth to note that some deities are what they represent, i.e. Helios is the Sun, Thalassa the sea, Erebos darkness, Hemera day, et cetera. If they died, those things would be erased from existence.
We know Theros gods are born from the desires of sapient races. But we don't know how closely linked they are to said concepts. It's implied, for example, that Theros' sun is Heliod, so if he died the Sun would be gone.
None of the gods created Theros in anything except mythology. It's a major thing since Theros created the gods and not the other way around.
Unless the third-act twist is the revelation that the teachings of Xenagos the God, who has criticized the other gods for making false claims, are themselves false.
At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if Kruphix were originally an oldwalker who either created Theros entirely or at least created Nyx and the god system.
The hydra being "Nylea's pet" is a nice touch, but I find it kind of interesting that they made it just some random hydra.
I would have thought they would want to make it special by making it Polukranos or something like that, but apparently it was just a normal hydra.
I suppose that says a lot about Nylea that she doesn't play favorites with her beasties.
One thing I really liked about this was Kiora seeing more of her U, she was just feeling like a Gcharacter who is Ubecause she is a merfolk.
For me it was the other way around; her blue was more obvious to me because of her scheming nature and affinity for oceans, but a lot of her personality and mannerisms came across as very green.
Describing most worlds as whales and Zendikar as a shark sealed the deal for me.
+1 to Silence being opposite to what we've seen in BNG and hydra not sounding like a big deal before. Maybe Kruphix closed Nyx because of Xenagod and pantheon made Elspeth a scapegoat? Because... if Silence is there right after slaying the Hydra, there will be at least some people pissed off because of the sudden absense of gods and Elspeth wouldn't be so popular like she was?
What worries the gods about Xenagos's ascension to godhood is the fact that the separation between god and mortal has been breached, creating somewhat of a puncture in the absolute authority of the gods. This is kind of a deviation from the Greek mythology source material, where mortals became gods on an almost regular basis.
No it's not. What worries them is the fact that they believed their mythology as much as any mortal did because they were created by the distillation of mortal belief. The fact that their domain has been infringed upon makes them realize that they have been living a lie and it has profound psychological impacts on how they perceive themselves.
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At least Erebos intervened... it would be much sadder if they just went suicide and just complete void after. Who knew he could be so swell?
Prepping my Purphoros blessed hammer to smite un-necessary comments akin to the Coca-Cola Superbowl ad reaction.
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Well, so far most responses have been quite good, though I shall join you in the slaughter of Heliod's homophobic minions.
"Erebos is an effective warden and lord of the Underworld realm. He is not without compassion, but his compassion is limited to feeling on behalf of others what he himself feels, and his acceptance of his fate means that his lieges, the dead, must accept theirs. He idly envies the sunlit world of the living, but only in a daydream-like way. He knows that all mortal souls will eventually join him, which affords him a kind of satisfaction and certainty. When others suffer, it brings Erebos peace, but not glee, because the alienation and banishment of others enables them to identify with his own."
He mostly just seems slightly miffed over his position, but is still content with it.
And the implication is that she might know Talrund.
In other news though, we got a look into how a merfolk views the eternities and I am happy to see that there's a different perspective being presented. I've tried to write something similar in the past, and it really makes you stop and consider how much we take our perspective for granted. Anyways...
One major question that jumps up is what is WITH Zendikar that it creates such... bigoted people?
Better yet, she doesn't think much of him.
Condescending is as condescending does, I suppose.
Agreed. I thoroughly enjoyed reading all of that.
I don't think it's an inherently Zendikarian thing, the biggest "cities" on Zendikar tend to be a mishmash of all sorts of races, it's just the circumstances of being a merfolk ("Oh, your body can't separate oxygen from water? Pity.") and traveling the verse so that there's so many planes where she can access more than the drywalkers which just constantly reinforces her bigotry.
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I'm happy to have a story written in Kiora's voice, it paints a much clearer picture of what she's like. Arrogant, manipulative, and only concerned with what she sees as the biggest and the best that the sea has to offer; even other merfolk don't impress her much, other than the one who's savvy enough to see through her charade. He's intelligent (and attractive) enough to keep her interest.
More development of the main Theros story, too. So the hydra Elspeth kills belonged to Nylea, and to keep the situation from escalating Kruphix separated the gods from the mortal realm. It surprises me that one of the minor gods has that kind of power over the entire pantheon; though it seems that Kruphix is, at least in part, the god of boundaries, so forcibly separating Nyx and Theros could logically fall within his domain. He's also the eldest of the gods. I really want to meet him now, not that I didn't before.
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Well, when your world is constantly trying to kill you, I guess it's easy to feel superior to people who live on nice, tame worlds.
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And I also think it some natural for planes walkers to like their home plane more then the rest.
One thing I really liked about this was Kiora seeing more of her U, she was just feeling like a Gcharacter who is Ubecause she is a merfolk.
I also found it funny they added some minor info about the UG god Kruphix with a Kiora story.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Oh, Kiora, I think I love you. Join me, and we will spread snark throughout the many planes!
I love the concept of each world's seas having a "taste", because that's very much a mer way of experiencing the world.
I find the Silence (which, I'm pretty sure, this is the first mention of) interesting because it seems the opposite of what we saw through the cards of BNG with the Nyxborn bleeding through into Theros. Where does this story fit into the timeline of the plot? Clearly this is after Elspeth slayed the hydra, but is this before Xenagos worked his mojo with the Great Revel? Or did Kruphix close off Nyx in response to Xenagogo's intrusion?
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Yes! Kruphix sounds so awesome! I think you're totally correct that he (I think someone at Wizards...probably Doug...previously described Kruphix as a "he") is the (or one of the) creator gods that gave shape to the land and sea. It would make perfect sense as his being the god of horizons and boundaries, being both green and blue aligned (thus having connections with both the land and the sea), and the art of Temple of Mystery being a large tree at the end of the sea/world. Now I can't wait to see Kruphix on a card! He'd better be as awesome as the storyline makes him out to be!
I also really liked how this week's Uncharted Realms portrayed Kiora. Like someone else mentioned, she's not quite as mean as Wizards had originally hinted, she's just not very concerned with the consequences of her actions on the worlds that she visits. That isn't terribly surprising, though, since it seems that all but white-aligned Planeswalkers have a somewhat similar outlook. Koth only really cared about stopping the Phyrexian contagion on Mirrodin. Nissa (kind of a bad example because she is kind of a jerk) only wanted to stop the Eldrazi threat to Zendikar, even if that meant the destruction of other planes (at the hands of said Eldrazi). Tamiyo had no interest in the fate of Innistrad beyond how it would affect her research. And then there are all of the black-aligned Planeswalkers which I'm not even going to get into.
Anyhow, I really like where this story is going, and I have a much bigger interest in "The Silence," Kruphix, Kiora and her interactions with Thassa, and the giants of the deep that Kiora finds than of Xenagos and Elspeth's little debacle.
None of the gods created Theros in anything except mythology. It's a major thing since Theros created the gods and not the other way around.
Well, there's also Chandra (albeit in the occasions she was concerned it was due to people she personally cared about), Jace (primarily concerned about Ravnica, but also occasionally demonstrating kindness elsewhere, like his brief moment in Zendikar where he aided a struggling family), Garruk (who did feel pity for the people of Innistrad) and pre-Innistrad Sorin (who did try to save the multiverse, if for no other reason than to not die).
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But the same is true in Greek mythology: the pantheon of gods, such as Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, etc, didn't actually create the world. Their ancestors did. If Poseidon died, the sea would continue to exist. If Hades died, people would still die like normal. There may be some upheaval (especially in Hades's case, since he is responsible for keeping order in the Underworld), but things wouldn't just stop functioning. The same is true on Theros. The gods are the wardens of their respective realms, and the power that they exercise over it is nearly absolute. They are, for all intents and purposes, gods on Theros, in function and in name. Just because they didn't make the world doesn't make them any less powerful over it now. The "fraud" part that Xenagos was trying to expose is that there's a much larger multiverse outside of Theros where the gods aren't all-powerful. What worries the gods about Xenagos's ascension to godhood is the fact that the separation between god and mortal has been breached, creating somewhat of a puncture in the absolute authority of the gods. This is kind of a deviation from the Greek mythology source material, where mortals became gods on an almost regular basis.
Anyhow, my point is that nowhere is it stated that the gods aren't responsible for creating Theros. Given what we've read about the powers of the gods so far, it's completely within the realm of possibilities, especially when Kruphix apparently has the power to "Silence" the gods in the realm of mortals on Theros. It is completely possible that he is the one that gave shape to the land and sea on Theros. Heck, if less powerful mortals on other planes could easily do such things, why couldn't a god?
Well, as far as the most accepted Theogony is, anyways. It's also worth to note that some deities are what they represent, i.e. Helios is the Sun, Thalassa the sea, Erebos darkness, Hemera day, et cetera. If they died, those things would be erased from existence.
We know Theros gods are born from the desires of sapient races. But we don't know how closely linked they are to said concepts. It's implied, for example, that Theros' sun is Heliod, so if he died the Sun would be gone.
Unless the third-act twist is the revelation that the teachings of Xenagos the God, who has criticized the other gods for making false claims, are themselves false.
At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if Kruphix were originally an oldwalker who either created Theros entirely or at least created Nyx and the god system.
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I would have thought they would want to make it special by making it Polukranos or something like that, but apparently it was just a normal hydra.
I suppose that says a lot about Nylea that she doesn't play favorites with her beasties.
For me it was the other way around; her blue was more obvious to me because of her scheming nature and affinity for oceans, but a lot of her personality and mannerisms came across as very green.
Describing most worlds as whales and Zendikar as a shark sealed the deal for me.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
No it's not. What worries them is the fact that they believed their mythology as much as any mortal did because they were created by the distillation of mortal belief. The fact that their domain has been infringed upon makes them realize that they have been living a lie and it has profound psychological impacts on how they perceive themselves.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.