I guessing they where clone-angels who have a debt to the Orzhov and are now paying it off.
No, they were created from the ground up by the Orzhov. They were never associated with the Firemane angels at all.
It was a lot more notable back before they ****ed the design up on the Boros angels by removing the hindwings.
The Boros angels had four wings based off of butterflies while the Angels of Despair only had the single pair.
But anyways, the Orzhov angels did have a story behind them.
Wow I didn't realize they had foure wings. Just looked at Firemane Angel more closely, and I saw four wings.
Was there a reason why Boros angels had 4 wings while Orzhov have only two?
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Wow I didn't realize they had foure wings. Just looked at Firemane Angel more closely, and I saw four wings.
Was there a reason why Boros angels had 4 wings while Orzhov have only two?
To make them visually distinctive from other angels.
It's the same principle you find amongst the style guides every time they have to reinvent a race, but this was the first time they did something with the actual body rather than relying heavily on clothing for angels.
Razia had four wings as well, of course.
To make them visually distinctive from other angels.
It's the same principle you find amongst the style guides every time they have to reinvent a race, but this was the first time they did something with the actual body rather than relying heavily on clothing for angels.
Razia had four wings as well, of course.
And I still find this a bit bitter... I do hope that there is something more to this converting to the stereotypical angel form and not just some handwave-y or "data" related reasoning (I'm pinning that it's actually a part of the overall plot for this set *crosses fingers* ).
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Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
And I still find this a bit bitter... I do hope that there is something more to this converting to the stereotypical angel form and not just some handwave-y or "data" related reasoning (I'm pinning that it's actually a part of the overall plot for this set *crosses fingers* ).
I'm hoping it doesn't have anything to do with why there are still angels on Ravnica despite the MASS MURDER.
I'm hoping they aren't pulling an Innistrad, because it really sort of spits in the artificial nature of the angels on Ravnica.
Demons on Innistrad are reincarnated. Their physical selves are made of mana and that mana returns to a source to spawn a new one from the returned energy.
Am I the only one who thinks that Angel of Serenity sort of resembles a Zendikar angel because of the halo over her eyes?
Different style of halo altogether.
The Zendikari angels had halos that resembled the modern depiction as a ring floating about their heads.
The original halos, whose origins can be found in the classic roman eras (particularly pre-Hellenistic periods), were more defined as a nimbus of light and saw a popular renaissance in the 20th century during the art nouveau movement after a heavy decline during the Realism movement started during the actual Renaissance.
So yeah, there's not actually supposed to be any third dimension to Angel of Serenity's halo, it's just an awkward angle. It's actually really interesting to note that the Angel of Serenity has a cruciform halo, which was never in popular use outside depictions of a certain Messiah.
I'm hoping it doesn't have anything to do with why there are still angels on Ravnica despite the MASS MURDER.
I'm hoping they aren't pulling an Innistrad, because it really sort of spits in the artificial nature of the angels on Ravnica.
Considering the giant dragons and vampires (how have I forgotten you for so long?!) despite the mythology surrounding those creatures in Ravnica, don't cross your fingers.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
Just asking, but did any source during the original Ravnica block say that all angels were killed, or merely those residing at Sunhome during that massive impact?
Considering the giant dragons and vampires (how have I forgotten you for so long?!) despite the mythology surrounding those creatures in Ravnica, don't cross your fingers.
Unfortunately, the dragons had precedents with the Rakdos pit-dragon and the hunted dragon... damn them.
As for the Vampire, that's not actually against any mythology. Szadek wasn't that type of vampire, but we had Skeletal Vampire that indicated that the blood drinkers were present.
Just asking, but did any source during the original Ravnica block say that all angels were killed, or merely those residing at Sunhome during that massive impact?
There were no angels except those made by Razia or those by the Orzhov.
And Szadek pretty much personally murdered EVERY angel on the Parhelion... which was every angel bar Feather.
Feather said, very explicitly, that she was the last Firemane angel.
Last 'Firemane' angel, which is a definite qualifier. None of the 'new' Ravnican angels share the four-winged trait that the Firemane angels have, so it is entirely possible that these are new angels recruited into the legion from other districts of Ravnica, formerly guildless but joining either because they agree with Aurelia or find they can do much more good with the entire Legion backing them than otherwise.
So there's no reason for to assume that the Parhelion crashing destroyed every angel in the entire plane of Ravnica, just all the Firemane ones. Feather could have recruited guildless angels to help swell the ranks.
Last 'Firemane' angel, which is a definite qualifier. None of the 'new' Ravnican angels share the four-winged trait that the Firemane angels have, so it is entirely possible that these are new angels recruited into the legion from other districts of Ravnica, formerly guildless but joining either because they agree with Aurelia or find they can do much more good with the entire Legion backing them than otherwise.
So there's no reason for to assume that the Parhelion crashing destroyed every angel in the entire plane of Ravnica, just all the Firemane ones. Feather could have recruited guildless angels to help swell the ranks.
The thing about that was that there were no angels other than the firemane or the angels of despair. They were all artificial creations. That's one of the points that is so annoying about their sudden reappearance.
They literally constituted the entire population.
I know it's somewhat moot since the randomly threw merfolk into the mix, but they ALSO retconned the death of the Firemane anyways.
They haven't retconned the Firemanes' death at all. They've all died. These are new angels, and it's entirely possible that new angels have been born/created/coalesced since the events of the first Ravnica block. Do you think Feather would have run the Boros alone, since she was the last angel? It would be perfectly valid for her to create more angels in the same way that she was created.
And to me, the introduction of the merfolk makes perfect sense. We, in the modern world can build on the ocean, so it's not that strange an idea that the Ancient Ravnicans did the same thing. Once they built over the oceans, their version of merfolk faded into folklore, myth, an then obscurity. It's only now that the merfolk have reestablished links with a world that's forgotten them do we know about them.
Barinellos, I think you are the stroyline person to talk to, but you are sounding a little nostalgia-blinded right now. You know that old saying, "they changed it, now it sucks?" That's what I'm hearing from you. Let's assume that Creative actually know what they're doing, okay? I trust MaRo isn't just making things up as he goes along.
They haven't retconned the Firemanes' death at all. They've all died. These are new angels, and it's entirely possible that new angels have been born/created/coalesced since the events of the first Ravnica block. Do you think Feather would have run the Boros alone, since she was the last angel? It would be perfectly valid for her to create more angels in the same way that she was created.
Actually, they have retconned it. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/210a
Note the "countless" Boros angels, but not "all save Feather". They had an opportunity to say that all previous Boros angels died, but they didn't. They smoothed things over and downplayed what happened so nobody would question why angels were still in the Boros.
And yes, I would expect Feather to have created more angels should she prove capable of it.* That isn't what is being presented here though. These angels, which were unique, have been homogenized and we haven't been given a good reason why.
I don't mind there being new firemane angels. I do sort of resent the idea that there were unaligned angels out there that nobody ever heard about when they went to great lengths to stress that Angel was synonymous with Boros.
For the record as well, it was a rather large plot point that ALL the Boros angels except Feather were in the Parhelion at the time it disappeared, and it stayed vanished for over a decade. It was an important event, so there really isn't any wiggle room as far as "well maybe some weren't aboard."
Barinellos, I think you are the storyline person to talk to, but you are sounding a little nostalgia-blinded right now. You know that old saying, "they changed it, now it sucks?" That's what I'm hearing from you. Let's assume that Creative actually know what they're doing, okay? I trust MaRo isn't just making things up as he goes along.
The problem I have with this isn't one of nostalgia. Truthfully, I'm only a little wary of the merfolk suddenly showing up and perfectly willing to give them a chance.
The problem I have is one of provenance. They introduced the merfolk into Ravnica, where they didn't exist before because of changes in design's attitudes towards the tribe. There wasn't what I would call a good story reason to do so, they created a story reason to justify the tribal expectations of the game (largely because market research has apparently shown people don't respond as well to the Vedalken as they need them to.) The worst part of this is that a lot of the things that would make their appearance compelling are... just being handwaved like it wasn't a big deal. I don't mind them being there, but I want full exploration of the implications of them showing up. Not just "Oh, hey, some merfolk. Fancy that huh?"
And MaRo isn't a member of Creative, he heads Design not creative. While they do work closely together, take flavor questions he answers with a large pinch of salt. Trust in Brady.
At the end of the day, I don't dislike most of the changes they've made to allow RtR to happen (though I still HATE the lack of four wings on the Boros Angels), but what I do dislike is that we haven't gotten satisfactory answers for the changes. Most of them have been handwaved, and that irritates me a great deal. That's all.
*for that matter, there are some issues with Feather gaining leadership in the first place as I think about it. She took over because she was the only angel left, but now with Aurelia and her ilk, we have some matters of dispute. Basically, I don't think any of the suddenly surviving angels would have let her step into the guildmaster role. I mean, just look at how Aurelia seized power in the first place...
Wow I didn't realize they had foure wings. Just looked at Firemane Angel more closely, and I saw four wings.
Was there a reason why Boros angels had 4 wings while Orzhov have only two?
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U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
To make them visually distinctive from other angels.
It's the same principle you find amongst the style guides every time they have to reinvent a race, but this was the first time they did something with the actual body rather than relying heavily on clothing for angels.
Razia had four wings as well, of course.
And I still find this a bit bitter... I do hope that there is something more to this converting to the stereotypical angel form and not just some handwave-y or "data" related reasoning (I'm pinning that it's actually a part of the overall plot for this set *crosses fingers* ).
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
I'm hoping it doesn't have anything to do with why there are still angels on Ravnica despite the MASS MURDER.
I'm hoping they aren't pulling an Innistrad, because it really sort of spits in the artificial nature of the angels on Ravnica.
Demons on Innistrad are reincarnated. Their physical selves are made of mana and that mana returns to a source to spawn a new one from the returned energy.
Modern:
(online)Enduring Ideal
(online)BUG
(paper)Mono White Control
Standard:
(paper) Whatever I can throw together
(online) UWR Control
Legacy:
(paper)The Gate
(paper)Dream Halls
Different style of halo altogether.
The Zendikari angels had halos that resembled the modern depiction as a ring floating about their heads.
The original halos, whose origins can be found in the classic roman eras (particularly pre-Hellenistic periods), were more defined as a nimbus of light and saw a popular renaissance in the 20th century during the art nouveau movement after a heavy decline during the Realism movement started during the actual Renaissance.
So yeah, there's not actually supposed to be any third dimension to Angel of Serenity's halo, it's just an awkward angle. It's actually really interesting to note that the Angel of Serenity has a cruciform halo, which was never in popular use outside depictions of a certain Messiah.
Considering the giant dragons and vampires (how have I forgotten you for so long?!) despite the mythology surrounding those creatures in Ravnica, don't cross your fingers.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Unfortunately, the dragons had precedents with the Rakdos pit-dragon and the hunted dragon... damn them.
As for the Vampire, that's not actually against any mythology. Szadek wasn't that type of vampire, but we had Skeletal Vampire that indicated that the blood drinkers were present.
There were no angels except those made by Razia or those by the Orzhov.
And Szadek pretty much personally murdered EVERY angel on the Parhelion... which was every angel bar Feather.
Feather said, very explicitly, that she was the last Firemane angel.
So there's no reason for to assume that the Parhelion crashing destroyed every angel in the entire plane of Ravnica, just all the Firemane ones. Feather could have recruited guildless angels to help swell the ranks.
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
The thing about that was that there were no angels other than the firemane or the angels of despair. They were all artificial creations. That's one of the points that is so annoying about their sudden reappearance.
They literally constituted the entire population.
I know it's somewhat moot since the randomly threw merfolk into the mix, but they ALSO retconned the death of the Firemane anyways.
And to me, the introduction of the merfolk makes perfect sense. We, in the modern world can build on the ocean, so it's not that strange an idea that the Ancient Ravnicans did the same thing. Once they built over the oceans, their version of merfolk faded into folklore, myth, an then obscurity. It's only now that the merfolk have reestablished links with a world that's forgotten them do we know about them.
Barinellos, I think you are the stroyline person to talk to, but you are sounding a little nostalgia-blinded right now. You know that old saying, "they changed it, now it sucks?" That's what I'm hearing from you. Let's assume that Creative actually know what they're doing, okay? I trust MaRo isn't just making things up as he goes along.
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Actually, they have retconned it.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/210a
Note the "countless" Boros angels, but not "all save Feather". They had an opportunity to say that all previous Boros angels died, but they didn't. They smoothed things over and downplayed what happened so nobody would question why angels were still in the Boros.
And yes, I would expect Feather to have created more angels should she prove capable of it.* That isn't what is being presented here though. These angels, which were unique, have been homogenized and we haven't been given a good reason why.
I don't mind there being new firemane angels. I do sort of resent the idea that there were unaligned angels out there that nobody ever heard about when they went to great lengths to stress that Angel was synonymous with Boros.
For the record as well, it was a rather large plot point that ALL the Boros angels except Feather were in the Parhelion at the time it disappeared, and it stayed vanished for over a decade. It was an important event, so there really isn't any wiggle room as far as "well maybe some weren't aboard."
The problem I have with this isn't one of nostalgia. Truthfully, I'm only a little wary of the merfolk suddenly showing up and perfectly willing to give them a chance.
The problem I have is one of provenance. They introduced the merfolk into Ravnica, where they didn't exist before because of changes in design's attitudes towards the tribe. There wasn't what I would call a good story reason to do so, they created a story reason to justify the tribal expectations of the game (largely because market research has apparently shown people don't respond as well to the Vedalken as they need them to.) The worst part of this is that a lot of the things that would make their appearance compelling are... just being handwaved like it wasn't a big deal. I don't mind them being there, but I want full exploration of the implications of them showing up. Not just "Oh, hey, some merfolk. Fancy that huh?"
And MaRo isn't a member of Creative, he heads Design not creative. While they do work closely together, take flavor questions he answers with a large pinch of salt. Trust in Brady.
At the end of the day, I don't dislike most of the changes they've made to allow RtR to happen (though I still HATE the lack of four wings on the Boros Angels), but what I do dislike is that we haven't gotten satisfactory answers for the changes. Most of them have been handwaved, and that irritates me a great deal. That's all.
*for that matter, there are some issues with Feather gaining leadership in the first place as I think about it. She took over because she was the only angel left, but now with Aurelia and her ilk, we have some matters of dispute. Basically, I don't think any of the suddenly surviving angels would have let her step into the guildmaster role. I mean, just look at how Aurelia seized power in the first place...