Ok guys, so recently I started running a D&D Campaign with a MTG setting. It's running a-la-Kingdom Hearts, visiting different planes to aid people while uncovering the truth behind an evil cult.
The problem is... tough unrelated to past/current MTG plots, I would like to run the campaign by letting them know the current situation of the planes... said, we won't go to Mirrodin since now it's New Phyrexia... but... what's with these plains?
-Kamigawa, any word on this one after the Kami war ended? It's my favorite plane haha, I miss it... If the war has ended maybe I can run some "Return of the Kami" campaign in Kamigawa
-Ulgrotha... man, I haven't known a thing about it in many time
-Dominaria, I heard the plane is pretty much as screwed as New Phyrexia and almost desolate... Am I wrong? Or is it still a nice setting for a campaign with towns and Sliver battles?
-Alara... how are things after the Conflux?
-Mercadia... meh, how's the inverted mountain doing?
-Ravnica... if guilds are over, maybe I can make a campaign about guilds trying to take over again.
-Lorwyn/Shadowmoor... how're things over there?
-Zendikar, still fighting the Eldrazi, or are they gone for good?
I would appreciate your help, sadly the Salvation Wiki hasn't helped me much...
-Kamigawa, any word on this one after the Kami war ended? It's my favorite plane haha, I miss it... If the war has ended maybe I can run some "Return of the Kami" campaign in Kamigawa
Jace visited it, and Bolas visited it during Time spiral. The sisters are still there.
We don't have any real information on what happened after the Kami war.
-Ulgrotha... man, I haven't known a thing about it in many time
Creative hasn't made eye contact with Ulgrotha in a long time. Bolas stopped by here in Time spiral. Not much to say.
-Dominaria, I heard the plane is pretty much as screwed as New Phyrexia and almost desolate... Am I wrong? Or is it still a nice setting for a campaign with towns and Sliver battles?
The plane is recovering from losing it's mana. Slivers are probably still a major problem, but you'll liekly find new settlements.
-Alara... how are things after the Conflux?
THey're fine. Ajani is working to unite the people of Alara together. That's about it.
-Mercadia... meh, how's the inverted mountain doing?
Hasn't been mentioned since Karona breifly visited there. Not much to say.
-Ravnica... if guilds are over, maybe I can make a campaign about guilds trying to take over again.
Guilds are gone, people's goverment is in full bloom. You can make any sort of campaign you want.
-Lorwyn/Shadowmoor... how're things over there?
I think Nissa stopped by there recently. Anyway people are probably reconciling thier two forms, the world is getting back into a more natural day/night cycle, and the races are adjusting.
-Zendikar, still fighting the Eldrazi, or are they gone for good?
Yep, Eldarzi and spawn everywhere. If you don't want to travel to New Phyrexia, i wouldn't travel to Zendikar either.
I would appreciate your help, sadly the Salvation Wiki hasn't helped me much...
Unfortuantely, time jumps around quite a bit in magic, it is only recently that it has settle down. The best we get is brief mentions of a plane here and there.
Though feel free to explore with a D&D campaign. As long as it's true to the nature of a plane.
I guess it's up to me to actually answer some of the questions asked.
Kamigawa: Things seem to be relatively peaceful. The sisters have apparently intergrated a lot of the spirit world over the regular world. Now, the spirits dwell where the mana lay.
Ulgrotha: The Baron has this plane in his pocket.
Dominaria: Otaria is still a wasteland (and good riddance) but we've had a single quasi-canon article about it. It's on its way.
Alara: Jund is besieging Esper, which is still hard up for Etherium. Bant is still getting hammered by Grixis. Naya has basically just completely allied with Bant against Grixis.
Mercadia: ... The Infinite Consortium is there. That's all we know. Karona's experience has been wiped from canon.
Guilds are gone, people's goverment is in full bloom. You can make any sort of campaign you want.
I believe the Dissension book ended by saying that there was a new Guildpact, but it was merely a paper document not bound by magic (like the other). That seems to say the guilds haven't completely fallen apart, just most are leaderless or devastated.
I believe the Dissension book ended by saying that there was a new Guildpact, but it was merely a paper document not bound by magic (like the other). That seems to say the guilds haven't completely fallen apart, just most are leaderless or devastated.
And then Agents of Artifice, which takes place after then end of the events in Ravnica block, said that the guilds had been overthrown.
That's what "Overthrown" means. The guilds are gone, disbanded, no more. They have ceased to be.
The guilds were doomed the moment the gulidpact was destroyed. Without magic forcing them to play nice, the guilds were always destined to destroy each other.
Recently looking into some of the lore and noticed quite often(such example of Zendikar with never saying anything more happening with Eldrazi) that stories kinda just leave a cliffhanger ending to it.
Was very very curious what all happened with the Eldrazi in particular if they were defeated or if just still wrecking havoc like what happened with Phyrexian set.
thanks to the OP and everyone answered as helped me a bit :D.
If you really want to have some fun go to Innistrad right at the time of Dark Ascension. You can have the players all start off as humans and see what happens to them after that. Also the ending is really still up in the air so you are free to make up your own.
Will your company fall pry to the Vampires, a hungry pack of Werewolf s, be tormented by a Geist or hold out long enough to see the Return of Avacyn. They could also be a key part in her return.
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That's what "Overthrown" means. The guilds are gone, disbanded, no more. They have ceased to be.
The guilds were doomed the moment the gulidpact was destroyed. Without magic forcing them to play nice, the guilds were always destined to destroy each other.
Not all of the guilds are gone. Most are still there just in a diminished form. Take the Boros. They mainly just defend the rich and wealthy nowadays.
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You've got a rat in your walls, and cheese won't solve anything.
Not all of the guilds are gone. Most are still there just in a diminished form. Take the Boros. They mainly just defend the rich and wealthy nowadays.
THen they aren't the Boros. They are former Boros members who have found new niches in Ravnica. The Boros leigion is a military group under Razia (now Feather). I don't think the people's goverement is going to allow for Feather to control leigons of soldiers who are only accountable to her (call me crazy).
One might be able to argue that the guilds existed before the guildpact (well many of them did) and so they could exist without the guldpact. But the world has changed. Pre-guildpact the guilds had massive armies, and fought against each other. THey held the power of the plane through military might. In modern day Ravnica the people hold the power, not the guildmasters.
* Of course the Guilded are going to survive after the guildpact collapses. THe guilded are the most well trained in whatever job they have. The Izzet are going to be the best alchemists, the Simic the best botonists, the Boros the best mercenaries. But they are no longer part of the guilds they were from.
* Of course the Guilded are going to survive after the guildpact collapses. THe guilded are the most well trained in whatever job they have. The Izzet are going to be the best alchemists, the Simic the best botonists, the Boros the best mercenaries. But they are no longer part of the guilds they were from.
Then again, the Simic were also inhumane monsters (mostly) so the people are really not going to put up with their experimentation.
They lynched the Selesnyans for having a part in mentally pacifying the masses, what do you think they'd do to people who actively experimented on the populace?
Then again, the Simic were also inhumane monsters (mostly) so the people are really not going to put up with their experimentation.
They lynched the Selesnyans for having a part in mentally pacifying the masses, what do you think they'd do to people who actively experimented on the populace?
I imagine there were huge war crime trials after the fall of the guildpact. I imagine alot of Simic were convincted of crimes against humanity for thier inhuman experiements. But like in WW2, you can't convinct every Nazi. I imagine alot of the Simic who weren't involved with experiments were left off scott free.
I would be fun to see Ravnica right after the guilds fell, and see all the reactions. How did the city survive without it's supply of food from the Golgari? How did they handle the Rakdos and Gruul? How did the guldmasters handle it?
I think it would be a great setting for a block, but they kind of threw that out the window.
I imagine there were huge war crime trials after the fall of the guildpact. I imagine alot of Simic were convincted of crimes against humanity for thier inhuman experiements. But like in WW2, you can't convinct every Nazi. I imagine alot of the Simic who weren't involved with experiments were left off scott free.
I would be fun to see Ravnica right after the guilds fell, and see all the reactions. How did the city survive without it's supply of food from the Golgari? How did they handle the Rakdos and Gruul? How did the guldmasters handle it?
I think it would be a great setting for a block, but they kind of threw that out the window.
I'm not sure there was much left for trial after the overthrow. I mean, just look at the Orzhov vs the Selesnyans. The relatively peaceful guild with the semi-brainwashed army were literally HUNG FROM THE TOWERS.
Meanwhile, the money the Orzhov had kept them from suffering despite the horrible things they did to their slaves. The Izzet didn't seem to suffer much either, but they were mostly experimenting on themselves.
Point is, if the Selesnyans got it so bad, the Simic probably had it worse, especially since they had been hit pretty badly after Vig was killed.
The Gruul, I don't think factored in heavily. Even during the decamillenia, they were barely able to keep themselves fed. As highwaymen, nothing probably really happened aside from a possible grab for more land. If anything, I think they might have been leading the charge.
Well to be fair the Conclave was a lying organization that tricked people into worship, while thier devotion was turned into the power source for the own oppression.
Lynches tend not to be rational. I imagine most of the conclave was strug up by angry devotees.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, the guilds are gone. Alot of people seem to forget that the guilds were evil. You can try to sugar coat it, but in the end the guilds existed for an entirely evil and self-centered reason. Even the Conclave and Boros were evil.
It would be insane for any goverment to keep the gulds intact.
Jace visited it, and Bolas visited it during Time spiral. The sisters are still there.
We don't have any real information on what happened after the Kami war.
Also important to note: In Time Spiral, Michiko intercepted Bolas and Leshrac when they tried to enter the plane.
In Agents of Artifice, the Consortium runs a cell in Takenuma without any interruption from Michiko or Kyodai.
So either they can't detect post-Mending planeswalkers, or they're not there any more. I'm leaning towards the first one.
Well to be fair the Conclave was a lying organization that tricked people into worship, while thier devotion was turned into the power source for the own oppression.
Lynches tend not to be rational. I imagine most of the conclave was strug up by angry devotees.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, the guilds are gone. Alot of people seem to forget that the guilds were evil. You can try to sugar coat it, but in the end the guilds existed for an entirely evil and self-centered reason. Even the Conclave and Boros were evil.
It would be insane for any goverment to keep the gulds intact.
Well, there are a couple of things there:
The Conclave WAS actually made mostly of people who believed in what they did and had virtually no knowledge of what they were doing. As an organization, they didn't know they were lying.
Second to consider is the guilds didn't exist for an entirely evil and self-centered reason. They served a very important purpose early on.... and then were totally corrupted by millennia of stagnation.
Also important to note: In Time Spiral, Michiko intercepted Bolas and Leshrac when they tried to enter the plane.
In Agents of Artifice, the Consortium runs a cell in Takenuma without any interruption from Michiko or Kyodai.
So either they can't detect post-Mending planeswalkers, or they're not there any more. I'm leaning towards the first one.
They can probably still detect them.
You have to remember that Bolas rolled up on Kamigawa before he and Leshrac started to fight. Bolas wrecked the Myojin and started an Umezawa hunt. That probably made the sisters a little more strict about the coming and going until the walker's powers got shorn.
Second to consider is the guilds didn't exist for an entirely evil and self-centered reason. They served a very important purpose early on.... and then were totally corrupted by millennia of stagnation.
The guildpact's purpose is to prepetuate the guilds. The guild's purpose is to protect the guldpact.
The guilds were waging wars against each other, then Azor shows up with the guildpact. So that instead of fighting each other, the guilds can just take over the world. And they do take over the world.
What very important purpose did the guilds serve in the beginning? THey each have a role, true, but each role is designed to aid the guildpact in some manner*.
No, the guilds were always evil, using force and magical might to secure power. I have a hard time beliviing that the guilds use to be more benevolent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Okay, i still don't really understand how the Gruul's role of protecting the wild places really fits in with the guldpact... i suspect it doesn't. I think Azor just needed to appease Cisarzim. (Given that Cisarzim was the last one to sign, it makes sense why Azor would want to appease him).
This would also explain why (after Cisarzim's death) the Gruul have been reduced to near nothingness.
The guilds were originally split between the forces of order and the forces of chaos.
The notable defenders of Order were the Boros and Azorius. You seem to forget what the war was actually about. It wasn't about who got to rule the plane, it was about what policy would shape civilization on the entirety of Ravnica. Either the anarchists win and civilization would have collapsed, or the forces of order would win and the plane would settle down.
Of course, the forces of order realized the war was basically tearing apart what they were trying to fight for. So they all got together and signed the pact because if they destroyed what they were fighting over, it would have been pointless.
Part of the pact was to actually make each guild productive and a power so that they wouldn't just start the war all over again.
You're being extremely bigoted by what the guilds ended up as. They weren't an evil institution to start with (though uh... Rakdos, Svogthos, and Cizarsim weren't exactly good) because they felt they were actually doing what was best for the plane... or certain members just wanted to rule it and the others saw how bad that would be.
The notable defenders of Order were the Boros and Azorius. You seem to forget what the war was actually about. It wasn't about who got to rule the plane, it was about what policy would shape civilization on the entirety of Ravnica. Either the anarchists win and civilization would have collapsed, or the forces of order would win and the plane would settle down.
Hold on. I'll reread the second chapter of Ravnica: City of Guilds.
Neither happened. Azor says it himself. The guildpact is a compromise between law and chaos. Each guild given free reign over thier kingdom.
Of course, the forces of order realized the war was basically tearing apart what they were trying to fight for. So they all got together and signed the pact because if they destroyed what they were fighting over, it would have been pointless.
Or Razia realized that the forces of chaos were unbeatable. Or that the forces of chaos would always exist, with or without a leader, or her mind was poisoned by Szadek, or any number of other things.
We don't know. We don't have that part of the history.
Part of the pact was to actually make each guild productive and a power so that they wouldn't just start the war all over again.
Right... selfish. The guildpact is designed so that each guild has it's own territory and doesn't need to fight openly with each other.
The guildpact is about being productive, but it is being productive to the new Ravnica state.
You're being extremely bigoted by what the guilds ended up as. They weren't an evil institution to start with (though uh... Rakdos, Svogthos, and Cizarsim weren't exactly good) because they felt they were actually doing what was best for the plane... or certain members just wanted to rule it and the others saw how bad that would be.
Go reread the books Skibo.
I did. The problem with the guildpact is that it doesn't support the lowest caste of soceity (the guildless) wihch is a problem that probably existed since the beginning. You also have the problem of slavery. You also have Slovoth killing children.
You might argue that what one atonomous state does in the guildpact is of no concern to the others, but the Azorius wrote the laws protecting these rights (for 10 millenia), and the Boros protected those rights.
I don't accept "the greater good" as an excuse for oppressive goverment. Especially ones that allow for the mistreatment of the majority.
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The problem is... tough unrelated to past/current MTG plots, I would like to run the campaign by letting them know the current situation of the planes... said, we won't go to Mirrodin since now it's New Phyrexia... but... what's with these plains?
-Kamigawa, any word on this one after the Kami war ended? It's my favorite plane haha, I miss it... If the war has ended maybe I can run some "Return of the Kami" campaign in Kamigawa
-Ulgrotha... man, I haven't known a thing about it in many time
-Dominaria, I heard the plane is pretty much as screwed as New Phyrexia and almost desolate... Am I wrong? Or is it still a nice setting for a campaign with towns and Sliver battles?
-Alara... how are things after the Conflux?
-Mercadia... meh, how's the inverted mountain doing?
-Ravnica... if guilds are over, maybe I can make a campaign about guilds trying to take over again.
-Lorwyn/Shadowmoor... how're things over there?
-Zendikar, still fighting the Eldrazi, or are they gone for good?
I would appreciate your help, sadly the Salvation Wiki hasn't helped me much...
Jace visited it, and Bolas visited it during Time spiral. The sisters are still there.
We don't have any real information on what happened after the Kami war.
Creative hasn't made eye contact with Ulgrotha in a long time. Bolas stopped by here in Time spiral. Not much to say.
The plane is recovering from losing it's mana. Slivers are probably still a major problem, but you'll liekly find new settlements.
THey're fine. Ajani is working to unite the people of Alara together. That's about it.
Hasn't been mentioned since Karona breifly visited there. Not much to say.
Guilds are gone, people's goverment is in full bloom. You can make any sort of campaign you want.
I think Nissa stopped by there recently. Anyway people are probably reconciling thier two forms, the world is getting back into a more natural day/night cycle, and the races are adjusting.
Yep, Eldarzi and spawn everywhere. If you don't want to travel to New Phyrexia, i wouldn't travel to Zendikar either.
Unfortuantely, time jumps around quite a bit in magic, it is only recently that it has settle down. The best we get is brief mentions of a plane here and there.
Though feel free to explore with a D&D campaign. As long as it's true to the nature of a plane.
Kamigawa: Things seem to be relatively peaceful. The sisters have apparently intergrated a lot of the spirit world over the regular world. Now, the spirits dwell where the mana lay.
Ulgrotha: The Baron has this plane in his pocket.
Dominaria: Otaria is still a wasteland (and good riddance) but we've had a single quasi-canon article about it. It's on its way.
Alara: Jund is besieging Esper, which is still hard up for Etherium. Bant is still getting hammered by Grixis. Naya has basically just completely allied with Bant against Grixis.
Mercadia: ... The Infinite Consortium is there. That's all we know. Karona's experience has been wiped from canon.
I believe the Dissension book ended by saying that there was a new Guildpact, but it was merely a paper document not bound by magic (like the other). That seems to say the guilds haven't completely fallen apart, just most are leaderless or devastated.
And then Agents of Artifice, which takes place after then end of the events in Ravnica block, said that the guilds had been overthrown.
That doesn't mean the guilds don't exist.
That's what "Overthrown" means. The guilds are gone, disbanded, no more. They have ceased to be.
The guilds were doomed the moment the gulidpact was destroyed. Without magic forcing them to play nice, the guilds were always destined to destroy each other.
Was very very curious what all happened with the Eldrazi in particular if they were defeated or if just still wrecking havoc like what happened with Phyrexian set.
thanks to the OP and everyone answered as helped me a bit :D.
Will your company fall pry to the Vampires, a hungry pack of Werewolf s, be tormented by a Geist or hold out long enough to see the Return of Avacyn. They could also be a key part in her return.
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Not all of the guilds are gone. Most are still there just in a diminished form. Take the Boros. They mainly just defend the rich and wealthy nowadays.
And don't call themselves the Boros and have no political power.
They're a "security company" (read: Mercenaries.)
But without the politics or the name, they aren't a guild in the same sense as they were before Dissension.
THen they aren't the Boros. They are former Boros members who have found new niches in Ravnica. The Boros leigion is a military group under Razia (now Feather). I don't think the people's goverement is going to allow for Feather to control leigons of soldiers who are only accountable to her (call me crazy).
One might be able to argue that the guilds existed before the guildpact (well many of them did) and so they could exist without the guldpact. But the world has changed. Pre-guildpact the guilds had massive armies, and fought against each other. THey held the power of the plane through military might. In modern day Ravnica the people hold the power, not the guildmasters.
* Of course the Guilded are going to survive after the guildpact collapses. THe guilded are the most well trained in whatever job they have. The Izzet are going to be the best alchemists, the Simic the best botonists, the Boros the best mercenaries. But they are no longer part of the guilds they were from.
Then again, the Simic were also inhumane monsters (mostly) so the people are really not going to put up with their experimentation.
They lynched the Selesnyans for having a part in mentally pacifying the masses, what do you think they'd do to people who actively experimented on the populace?
I imagine there were huge war crime trials after the fall of the guildpact. I imagine alot of Simic were convincted of crimes against humanity for thier inhuman experiements. But like in WW2, you can't convinct every Nazi. I imagine alot of the Simic who weren't involved with experiments were left off scott free.
I would be fun to see Ravnica right after the guilds fell, and see all the reactions. How did the city survive without it's supply of food from the Golgari? How did they handle the Rakdos and Gruul? How did the guldmasters handle it?
I think it would be a great setting for a block, but they kind of threw that out the window.
I'm not sure there was much left for trial after the overthrow. I mean, just look at the Orzhov vs the Selesnyans. The relatively peaceful guild with the semi-brainwashed army were literally HUNG FROM THE TOWERS.
Meanwhile, the money the Orzhov had kept them from suffering despite the horrible things they did to their slaves. The Izzet didn't seem to suffer much either, but they were mostly experimenting on themselves.
Point is, if the Selesnyans got it so bad, the Simic probably had it worse, especially since they had been hit pretty badly after Vig was killed.
The Gruul, I don't think factored in heavily. Even during the decamillenia, they were barely able to keep themselves fed. As highwaymen, nothing probably really happened aside from a possible grab for more land. If anything, I think they might have been leading the charge.
Lynches tend not to be rational. I imagine most of the conclave was strug up by angry devotees.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, the guilds are gone. Alot of people seem to forget that the guilds were evil. You can try to sugar coat it, but in the end the guilds existed for an entirely evil and self-centered reason. Even the Conclave and Boros were evil.
It would be insane for any goverment to keep the gulds intact.
Also important to note: In Time Spiral, Michiko intercepted Bolas and Leshrac when they tried to enter the plane.
In Agents of Artifice, the Consortium runs a cell in Takenuma without any interruption from Michiko or Kyodai.
So either they can't detect post-Mending planeswalkers, or they're not there any more. I'm leaning towards the first one.
Well, there are a couple of things there:
The Conclave WAS actually made mostly of people who believed in what they did and had virtually no knowledge of what they were doing. As an organization, they didn't know they were lying.
Second to consider is the guilds didn't exist for an entirely evil and self-centered reason. They served a very important purpose early on.... and then were totally corrupted by millennia of stagnation.
They can probably still detect them.
You have to remember that Bolas rolled up on Kamigawa before he and Leshrac started to fight. Bolas wrecked the Myojin and started an Umezawa hunt. That probably made the sisters a little more strict about the coming and going until the walker's powers got shorn.
The guildpact's purpose is to prepetuate the guilds. The guild's purpose is to protect the guldpact.
The guilds were waging wars against each other, then Azor shows up with the guildpact. So that instead of fighting each other, the guilds can just take over the world. And they do take over the world.
What very important purpose did the guilds serve in the beginning? THey each have a role, true, but each role is designed to aid the guildpact in some manner*.
No, the guilds were always evil, using force and magical might to secure power. I have a hard time beliviing that the guilds use to be more benevolent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Okay, i still don't really understand how the Gruul's role of protecting the wild places really fits in with the guldpact... i suspect it doesn't. I think Azor just needed to appease Cisarzim. (Given that Cisarzim was the last one to sign, it makes sense why Azor would want to appease him).
This would also explain why (after Cisarzim's death) the Gruul have been reduced to near nothingness.
The notable defenders of Order were the Boros and Azorius. You seem to forget what the war was actually about. It wasn't about who got to rule the plane, it was about what policy would shape civilization on the entirety of Ravnica. Either the anarchists win and civilization would have collapsed, or the forces of order would win and the plane would settle down.
Of course, the forces of order realized the war was basically tearing apart what they were trying to fight for. So they all got together and signed the pact because if they destroyed what they were fighting over, it would have been pointless.
Part of the pact was to actually make each guild productive and a power so that they wouldn't just start the war all over again.
You're being extremely bigoted by what the guilds ended up as. They weren't an evil institution to start with (though uh... Rakdos, Svogthos, and Cizarsim weren't exactly good) because they felt they were actually doing what was best for the plane... or certain members just wanted to rule it and the others saw how bad that would be.
Go reread the books Skibo.
Hold on. I'll reread the second chapter of Ravnica: City of Guilds.
Neither happened. Azor says it himself. The guildpact is a compromise between law and chaos. Each guild given free reign over thier kingdom.
Or Razia realized that the forces of chaos were unbeatable. Or that the forces of chaos would always exist, with or without a leader, or her mind was poisoned by Szadek, or any number of other things.
We don't know. We don't have that part of the history.
Right... selfish. The guildpact is designed so that each guild has it's own territory and doesn't need to fight openly with each other.
The guildpact is about being productive, but it is being productive to the new Ravnica state.
I did. The problem with the guildpact is that it doesn't support the lowest caste of soceity (the guildless) wihch is a problem that probably existed since the beginning. You also have the problem of slavery. You also have Slovoth killing children.
You might argue that what one atonomous state does in the guildpact is of no concern to the others, but the Azorius wrote the laws protecting these rights (for 10 millenia), and the Boros protected those rights.
I don't accept "the greater good" as an excuse for oppressive goverment. Especially ones that allow for the mistreatment of the majority.