This diversification and ensuing infighting without a central leader was where I was expecting Sliver evolution on Dominaria to go.
That's an interesting thought. I think the key difference here, though, is that Slivers have an innate instinct to work together. What the leader does is give them direction and purpose; without one they are still united but they don't have any direction other than rudimentary needs like food and space to breed. Phyrexians don't have that sort of behavior hard-wired into their biology. Well, maybe the lower ranked ones do, the numerous minions and servants who are made to serve the higher-ups, but the praetors and similarly high-ranked members of the hierarchy have individual minds and wills that come into conflict with one another. Slivers don't have the minds to be able to have philosophical differences.
I beleive that's what will win the war for the Mirrans. The Phyrexians that invaded Dominaria were a unified force, driven by the then Father of Machines, Yawgmoth. The Praetors are too individual to work together without a similar force driving them. Karn isn't in any position to unify them, and if I read bolas right, he doesn't want them that unified again either.
In the long run, perhaps. In the short term, the Phyrexians are still united enough to be able to exterminate the Mirrans with extreme prejudice. Even if they dislike working together, each individually working against the Mirrans is an incredible force, which only grows stronger over time. The praetors are working against each other, but almost entirely in subtle ways; espionage, propaganda, and political maneuvering. If their conflicts escalate into overt combat, then there is a significant threat to their power base. But as long as each individually has the bulk of their armed forces directed towards Mirrodin, they have more than enough momentum to push towards victory.
That will probably be what victory boils down to: not wheter or not the Mirrans are stong enough to take on the Phyrexians mano-y-mano, but rather wheter the Preators can keep themselves from turning on eachother long enough to finish the Great Work.
Edit: Elesh-Norn is what TV Tropes defines as a Pettanko. Look it up.
In other words, the Mirrans just have to stand their ground instead of having to fight. That's an interesting dimension to add, since this is information that the Mirrans do not have. Perhaps Venser will glean that, he will tell it to Koth since nobody believes Venser and then Koth will be hailed as the boss, etc.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[I was permabanned and all I got to show for it was .... well, nothing.]
I am a first poster, please forgive me if this is a little OT. (off-topic OR over-typed.)
After looking at the shadows of the various praetors, I have ideas for some cards. No mana costs, though.
Norn
legendary creature- cleric
first strike, deathtouch, vigilance
if ~ is equipped, it has lifelink.
2/8
Sheoldred
legendary Tribal artifact- horror equipment
living weapon
equipped creature gets +6/+6 and has 3 -1/-1 counters.
remove a counter: put a -3/-3 counter on target creature.
equip: 10
(note: the living weapon creates a minion, not a germ. (change in reminder text.))
Vorinclex, the descended
legendary artifact creature-beast
infect, if vorinclex would be destroyed, regenerate him.
10/10
(note: vorinclex has discarded his own sapience, hence the name.)
Urabrask
legendary creature-horror rigger
2: exile target equipment, then return it to play under its owner's control. it gains living weapon.
1rr: gain control of target artifact.
1r: put a 2/2 black minion creature token onto the battlefield under your control.
1: urabrask assembles 2 contraptions.
8/4
Jin-Gitaxias
Legendary creature-mage
2u, sacrifice a creature: target player draws 3 cards.
2u, sacrifice a creature: target player discards 3 cards.
2u, sacrifice a creature: Put a 3/1 blue drake token with flying and when this creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, each opponent discards a card onto the battlefield under your control.
6/6
all would be rare, they don't seem to be the type of rulers that distance themselves from the populace.
they're still very very rough, and I don't think they're quite worded right, but I thought I conveyed the praetors' individual philosophies rather well.
The main issue I have with Elesh Norn is with the 'saying', not the art. The art if fantastic. I'm a bit disturbed by the fact that she apparently has slit wrists... but it does fit her.
But her saying... um, yeah, I can see why Sheoldred despises her. There's very little subtlety about Norn, and I'm disappointed by that. She sounds like a valley girl cheerleader, to me.
'Make them kneel by cutting off their feet.' I mean, really?!?
The flavor text of Choking Fumes is SUCH a better way of dealing with it.
HUGE fan of White Phyrexia, but their quote for Elesh is just epic fail.
But her saying... um, yeah, I can see why Sheoldred despises her. There's very little subtlety about Norn, and I'm disappointed by that. She sounds like a valley girl cheerleader, to me.
Norn is a possibly crazed cleric in the service of Karn. Her job is to be very overt and declare the glory of Karn. White here makes the most sense. It wants to rile people up.
'Make them kneel by cutting off their feet.' I mean, really?!?
That's likely a metaphor. As in "If we can get you to kneel to Karn through our words, we'll make you kneel at any cost". I don't think she goes around chopping people's feet off.
HUGE fan of White Phyrexia, but their quote for Elesh is just epic fail.
The only problem with her line is the first line which seems to imply that Norn thinks people would refuse to worhip Karn after being converted to Phyrexia. Which makes no sense. White belives what it's doing is good, so Norn should assume that everyone who's joined Phyrexia is now a better person for doing so, and willingly sing praises to the way of Phyrexia.
Maybe she's into tough love. I have no clue. But that first line makes no sense.
If we look at the picture in the OP, it seems like Elesh's headpiece was originally half as big and she had a visible, empty ribcage. Seeems like the praetors have all gone through redesign.
The only problem with her line is the first line which seems to imply that Norn thinks people would refuse to worhip Karn after being converted to Phyrexia. Which makes no sense. White belives what it's doing is good, so Norn should assume that everyone who's joined Phyrexia is now a better person for doing so, and willingly sing praises to the way of Phyrexia.
Maybe she's into tough love. I have no clue. But that first line makes no sense.
Who says only other Phyrexians are in her presence?
She might be preaching to a group of captured Mirrans about to be compleated.
The main issue I have with Elesh Norn is with the 'saying', not the art. The art if fantastic. I'm a bit disturbed by the fact that she apparently has slit wrists... but it does fit her.
But her saying... um, yeah, I can see why Sheoldred despises her. There's very little subtlety about Norn, and I'm disappointed by that. She sounds like a valley girl cheerleader, to me.
'Make them kneel by cutting off their feet.' I mean, really?!?
The flavor text of Choking Fumes is SUCH a better way of dealing with it.
HUGE fan of White Phyrexia, but their quote for Elesh is just epic fail.
Well, it's because whoever wrote it for Norn isn't a very good writer. I thought "Look inside yourself to see the truth, or see my suture priests so they can open your chest to find it for you!" was incredibly awkward and stilted. Her other quotes generally have a bit more subtlety to them.
I can't imagine any end result now other than Karn being freed by Melira and going to another plane in which Venser shipjumps everyone to, with the Praetors remaining behind to claim Mirrodin.
The recent artwork being released just suggests this to me. I suppose the Praetors could flee on Venser's ship or something, but I don't know.
Perhaps the sun cage(s?) will be taken with them via some weird Karn magic, leaving the Phyrexians on an empty husk of a plane. Or the cages will prevent them from being used after Karn is gone.
Slivers don't have the minds to be able to have philosophical differences.
Not to continue being off topic, but...
I didn't really mean a schism in the slivers along "social" lines more from the perspective of them as animals. Specifically ants. Ant colonies rarely work with other colonies and often wage war with one another.
Part of this idea was also linked to card design. After 3 sliver blocks, the "All slivers have [blah]" model seems to be about used up, other than "Sliver cards in your hand have amplify 1" or other non-evergreen abilities.
I was thinking that this multiple sliver colony concept could give rise to stuff like; "Green slivers get +2/+2 and trample" or "If a black or blue sliver would deal damage to a player, that player discards a card and you draw a card." or "Green slivers are indestructible and blue slivers have shroud."
The color restriction would add flavor and the flexibility to give more adventurous bonuses.
But it would take away part of what makes Slivers fun to play with in the first place. There's still room for more slivers following the traditional model. There's not just keyword abilities and P/T bonuses to give, there's activated abilities and non-keyworded static and triggered abilities as well. Design space is wide open for them.
I see you're point, but personally I disagree. There are already four slivers that grant regeneration one way or another (albeit no green ones), and I just foresee more rehashing of older slivers with inconsequential changes. Also evasion abilities are getting pretty redundant.
I see it as room for growth in slivers, granted it does deconstruct what defines them, and creates sub-hives, but that's kinda the point, and it doesn't completely castrate the sliver concept. Playing a sliver deck against another has always just been really stupid. This diversification allows for one sliver deck to play against another and not have the deciding factors of the game be the non-sliver cards. And ties into the flavor of the the sub-hives competing for resources.
Also they could just do a couple of these and some regular slivers.
But I'm not saying that this will happen, but I feel Wizards needs to add some wow factor to the slivers next time we see them again.
I must say I stopped being a lurker because of you and still I smile at what you write! Keep up the fun times LC
But as far as the sliver thing goes I have to agree that there is plenty of space left to grow them and I doubt that it will feel "Phyrexian" from a hivemind stand point. In fact they were more militaristic than colony. Where is my Volrath?!!? lol =D
Yes, yes we were. Instead we got a perplexing story about a black disc, an adorable Myr and a freaker Brutalizer. Maybe when the site updates tonight/tomorrow we'll get Gitaxis.
Yes, yes we were. Instead we got a perplexing story about a black disc,
>>Black Disc
Wait wait wait... You are aware that Phyrexian Ambulators of the past looked like black discs right? Great, this'll go just fantastically now. Blargh.
Edit: Oh good, it isn't an ambulator since it's a solid disk of DARKSTEEL. Also interesting, because it confirms that Karn made Darksteel, not Memnarch.
That's an interesting thought. I think the key difference here, though, is that Slivers have an innate instinct to work together. What the leader does is give them direction and purpose; without one they are still united but they don't have any direction other than rudimentary needs like food and space to breed. Phyrexians don't have that sort of behavior hard-wired into their biology. Well, maybe the lower ranked ones do, the numerous minions and servants who are made to serve the higher-ups, but the praetors and similarly high-ranked members of the hierarchy have individual minds and wills that come into conflict with one another. Slivers don't have the minds to be able to have philosophical differences.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Edit: Elesh-Norn is what TV Tropes defines as a Pettanko. Look it up.
Actually, Koth is already hailed as the boss. He and Ezuri teamed up to unite the Mirrans.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
After looking at the shadows of the various praetors, I have ideas for some cards. No mana costs, though.
Norn
legendary creature- cleric
first strike, deathtouch, vigilance
if ~ is equipped, it has lifelink.
2/8
Sheoldred
legendary Tribal artifact- horror equipment
living weapon
equipped creature gets +6/+6 and has 3 -1/-1 counters.
remove a counter: put a -3/-3 counter on target creature.
equip: 10
(note: the living weapon creates a minion, not a germ. (change in reminder text.))
Vorinclex, the descended
legendary artifact creature-beast
infect, if vorinclex would be destroyed, regenerate him.
10/10
(note: vorinclex has discarded his own sapience, hence the name.)
Urabrask
legendary creature-horror rigger
2: exile target equipment, then return it to play under its owner's control. it gains living weapon.
1rr: gain control of target artifact.
1r: put a 2/2 black minion creature token onto the battlefield under your control.
1: urabrask assembles 2 contraptions.
8/4
Jin-Gitaxias
Legendary creature-mage
2u, sacrifice a creature: target player draws 3 cards.
2u, sacrifice a creature: target player discards 3 cards.
2u, sacrifice a creature: Put a 3/1 blue drake token with flying and when this creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, each opponent discards a card onto the battlefield under your control.
6/6
all would be rare, they don't seem to be the type of rulers that distance themselves from the populace.
they're still very very rough, and I don't think they're quite worded right, but I thought I conveyed the praetors' individual philosophies rather well.
But her saying... um, yeah, I can see why Sheoldred despises her. There's very little subtlety about Norn, and I'm disappointed by that. She sounds like a valley girl cheerleader, to me.
'Make them kneel by cutting off their feet.' I mean, really?!?
The flavor text of Choking Fumes is SUCH a better way of dealing with it.
HUGE fan of White Phyrexia, but their quote for Elesh is just epic fail.
Norn is a possibly crazed cleric in the service of Karn. Her job is to be very overt and declare the glory of Karn. White here makes the most sense. It wants to rile people up.
That's likely a metaphor. As in "If we can get you to kneel to Karn through our words, we'll make you kneel at any cost". I don't think she goes around chopping people's feet off.
The only problem with her line is the first line which seems to imply that Norn thinks people would refuse to worhip Karn after being converted to Phyrexia. Which makes no sense. White belives what it's doing is good, so Norn should assume that everyone who's joined Phyrexia is now a better person for doing so, and willingly sing praises to the way of Phyrexia.
Maybe she's into tough love. I have no clue. But that first line makes no sense.
Who says only other Phyrexians are in her presence?
She might be preaching to a group of captured Mirrans about to be compleated.
Well, it's because whoever wrote it for Norn isn't a very good writer. I thought "Look inside yourself to see the truth, or see my suture priests so they can open your chest to find it for you!" was incredibly awkward and stilted. Her other quotes generally have a bit more subtlety to them.
I can't imagine any end result now other than Karn being freed by Melira and going to another plane in which Venser shipjumps everyone to, with the Praetors remaining behind to claim Mirrodin.
The recent artwork being released just suggests this to me. I suppose the Praetors could flee on Venser's ship or something, but I don't know.
Perhaps the sun cage(s?) will be taken with them via some weird Karn magic, leaving the Phyrexians on an empty husk of a plane. Or the cages will prevent them from being used after Karn is gone.
Not to continue being off topic, but...
I didn't really mean a schism in the slivers along "social" lines more from the perspective of them as animals. Specifically ants. Ant colonies rarely work with other colonies and often wage war with one another.
Part of this idea was also linked to card design. After 3 sliver blocks, the "All slivers have [blah]" model seems to be about used up, other than "Sliver cards in your hand have amplify 1" or other non-evergreen abilities.
I was thinking that this multiple sliver colony concept could give rise to stuff like; "Green slivers get +2/+2 and trample" or "If a black or blue sliver would deal damage to a player, that player discards a card and you draw a card." or "Green slivers are indestructible and blue slivers have shroud."
The color restriction would add flavor and the flexibility to give more adventurous bonuses.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
I see it as room for growth in slivers, granted it does deconstruct what defines them, and creates sub-hives, but that's kinda the point, and it doesn't completely castrate the sliver concept. Playing a sliver deck against another has always just been really stupid. This diversification allows for one sliver deck to play against another and not have the deciding factors of the game be the non-sliver cards. And ties into the flavor of the the sub-hives competing for resources.
Also they could just do a couple of these and some regular slivers.
But I'm not saying that this will happen, but I feel Wizards needs to add some wow factor to the slivers next time we see them again.
That card never existed... do you understand that?
(Plus it wasn't printed as bird originally... :P)
How is "All green Sliver creatures get +2/+2" more wow than "All Sliver creatures get +2/+2"?
I must say I stopped being a lurker because of you and still I smile at what you write! Keep up the fun times LC
But as far as the sliver thing goes I have to agree that there is plenty of space left to grow them and I doubt that it will feel "Phyrexian" from a hivemind stand point. In fact they were more militaristic than colony. Where is my Volrath?!!? lol =D
URThe Joy of Painting with Nin, the Pain Artist!UR
You rang?.
Also, weren't we suposed to get Jin-Gitaxias today?.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
So Might Sliver is what we're describing and that is 4G
I'm talking more along the lines of
4G
Creature - Sliver
Green slivers get +2/+2 and trample.
2/2
The color specification is a drawback that allows for additional bonuses to other slivers.
>>Black Disc
Wait wait wait... You are aware that Phyrexian Ambulators of the past looked like black discs right? Great, this'll go just fantastically now. Blargh.
Edit: Oh good, it isn't an ambulator since it's a solid disk of DARKSTEEL. Also interesting, because it confirms that Karn made Darksteel, not Memnarch.