Okay...It's become obvious that MTG is molding its world into something akin to a comic book universe. You have your ongoing heroes (The Bradywalkers), your scheming mastermind villain (Bolas), your big, Galactus-level threat (The Eldrazi) and now your hive-mind, Borg-like baddies (The Phyrexians).
I'm wondering what else Creative could add to this mix.
Could we see a "Multiverse-wide crossover?" They never did publish that old "Planeswalkers War" story, after all.
How about a superteam of PWs? I cringe at the thought of a Jace-tus Leage, but would that be something to enhance the current storyline?
Mostly, i'm wondering what other major villain archetypes they can introduce into the MTG Rogues gallery.
I know this is all speculation, but I like imagining the possibilities of this. Do you guys have any ideas?
How about a superteam of PWs? I cringe at the thought of a Jace-tus Leage, but would that be something to enhance the current storyline?
Honestly, No. I have a lot of faith in the creative team, some would even say it was misplaced, but I have absolutely zero faith in their ability to pull off a Superfriends style team without it turning completely f*%^ing goofy.
They could do it in the past with the Nine Titans, largely thanks to the fact that each walker was already practically an inhuman army, so it was actually interesting to see the humanizing effect their interactions provided.
But with the neowalkers? Uh-uh. Liliana and Jace working together, that's fine. Tezzeret working with Baltrice in ToM?... That one didn't work very well. Combining yet MORE walkers together would create a gigantic mess rather than a team. Lord knows Venser and Koth derping it up while Elspeth runs around in circles has been just damn painful to have to watch. Ironically, Elspeth and Koth worked FINE together until you introduced that one disparity too many.
Having said that, if there were a team of walkers with very similar personalities, then I think they'd have the right dynamic, but unfortunately, you'd lose rather a lot of what would make it interesting.
Basically, as it is, none of the walkers have personalities that play very well against each other outside of a pair.
Right now Gideon is collecting a Super team to do battle with the Eldrazi.
It will consist of himself, Chandra, Jace, spiderman, green lanter, and bob from accounting.
It will be released as a summer blockbuster.
All joking aside, i'd rather see a Dr. Who style multiverse where lone planeswalkers interact with planes every so often bumping into each other. I think that would be far more interesting that trying to figure out what 5 different planeswalkers should be doing on a givien plane.
Right now Gideon is collecting a Super team to do battle with the Eldrazi.
It will consist of himself, Chandra, Jace, spiderman, green lanter, and bob from accounting.
It will be released as a summer blockbuster.
All joking aside, i'd rather see a Dr. Who style multiverse where lone planeswalkers interact with planes every so often bumping into each other. I think that would be far more interesting that trying to figure out what 5 different planeswalkers should be doing on a givien plane.
Well, with Karn popping up, apparently getting curbstomped.
*grumbles about five walkers, using disparaging epithets and the word "cycle" several times*
Also, don't go fronting on Bob from Accounting. He can hold his own (at least until an Orgg shows up.)
I disagree, I think that a justice league-esq team of planeswalkers could work but it depends on who is charge of designing such a task and who writes the story of it. The current creative team and recent writers? No. But someone could do it.
Also, as Skibo mentioned, a Doctor Who style multiverse would probably work out for the better for two reasons I think:
1. Planeswalkers constantly meeting up with each other on every plane is logically inconsistent when you consider the small number of walkers per plane, and the fact that planes are extremely vast world in and of themselves.
2. It would give us ther oppertunity to see more focus on legendary creatures and how they interact with the walkers; that could make for interesting story.
How about an extremist planeswalker who serves both as a hero and as a villain, threatning both the major baddies as well as everyone else's free will?
They need to go back to having the planeswalkers being territorial. Sure they're no longer the most powerful beings in the multiverse anymore but Tezzeret and Bolas aside they're simply unambitious.
To me it's like they have no real motive to traversing the multiverse beyond running away from something. Lilliana would be another exception as her motive is clear and by far the most interesting of all the walkers. Ajani's was oversimplified that being vengeance and all but what now? As far as he knows Bolas is dead, his brother avenged and him nothing to do.
Jace is trying to run the Consortium to the best of his abilities but to what ends? Sarkhan is a mad puppet of Bolas but is his master the great dragon spirit that set him across the multiverse? This is something of a loose end as there is no confirmation of it. Elspeth, I hate Elspeth but she could be an interesting character should she form a love/hate relationship with a darker character. Nissa is stupid and I can't see any sorta development from her. Garruk's plight is something sadly ignored but may in fact be picked up in Innistrad? Sorin was poorly written and is in need of redeeming. Another character that might return in Innistrad? He may be an interesting character that fights for control of a plane versus another villain like Baron Sengir!
I can't see Koth abandoning his home and would make for a good candidate for a martyr. Explosive finish! Gideon has potential of being a good leader character. A possible general but he needs to be supported by a cast of team oriented walkers/soldiers. Considering that he may wage war against the eldrazi we would need a host of new walkers that have better people skills. Come to think of it Ajani could be a good ally for him. Chandra is decent but needs to be put in more heroic situations.
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There are still a few villain archetypes we haven't seen yet that may crop up. There's still the under-powered antagonist who manages to best the protagonist through brains and guile (ie Lex Luthor). Baron Sengir might fit this archetype? There's also the "evil organization" archetype (ie Hydra, Spectre, Cobra, etc) that is a challenge for the protagonist simply due to overwhelming resources, organization and manpower.
Actually, Tezzeret already fills the Lex Luthor archetype, and really, the Infite Consortium was originally more like the evil organization than it is now with Jace running the thing.
Actually, Tezzeret already fills the Lex Luthor archetype
Sort of, but not really. At least not the way that I mean it. Tezz is still a planeswalker who can, in theory, go toe to toe with any other planeswalker in a fight. When I think about the "Lex Luthor" archetype, I mean someone who has no choice but to use preparation, planning, and guile to win because they cannot physically (or magically) match their opponent. So they're forced to use other methods, and they're very good at it. Perhaps this could also be the "Batman" archetype.
and really, the Infite Consortium was originally more like the evil organization than it is now with Jace running the thing.
Again, not exactly what I'm talking about. When I say "evil organization" I mean a large, efficient organization with many cogs that functions like a vast corporate or military machine. An army really. The Infinite Consortium has what, a dozen members? And they're all powerful planeswalkers, as far as I know anyway. I'm talking about something more like HYDRA or COBRA, as opposed to the Secret Society of Supervillains.
Sort of, but not really. At least not the way that I mean it. Tezz is still a planeswalker who can, in theory, go toe to toe with any other planeswalker in a fight. When I think about the "Lex Luthor" archetype, I mean someone who has no choice but to use preparation, planning, and guile to win because they cannot physically (or magically) match their opponent. So they're forced to use other methods, and they're very good at it. Perhaps this could also be the "Batman" archetype.
Welcome to ALL of Test of Metal featuring Tezzeret. Without his arm, he can't cast. His arm was literally his magical crutch, so he had to think out everything without it against vastly more powerful opponents. Tezzeret is really actually an awful wizard.
Again, not exactly what I'm talking about. When I say "evil organization" I mean a large, efficient organization with many cogs that functions like a vast corporate or military machine. An army really. The Infinite Consortium has what, a dozen members? And they're all powerful planeswalkers, as far as I know anyway. I'm talking about something more like HYDRA or COBRA, as opposed to the Secret Society of Supervillains.
The Infinite Consortium was about 2-3 dozen members. Per cell. With at least 6 cells on 6 different planes, and implications there were A LOT MORE cells.
Not even going into the hundreds of people working at Tezzeret's sanctum.
And actually, the Consortium only had 5 walkers in its employ with 3 other freelancers.
But then again, that was all during Tezzeret's tenure. Jace took over the Ravnica cell after he wiped it out just because he had nothing else to work with and no clue where to start. ONLY the Ravnica cell.
Welcome to ALL of Test of Metal featuring Tezzeret. Without his arm, he can't cast. His arm was literally his magical crutch, so he had to think out everything without it against vastly more powerful opponents. Tezzeret is really actually an awful wizard.
Fair enough. He's still a planeswalker though and he has his power back now (I think). I was still thinking more along the lines of someone who is a normal, mortal being and always will be, not a planeswalker who temporarily loses their powers.
The Infinite Consortium was about 2-3 dozen members. Per cell. With at least 6 cells on 6 different planes, and implications there were A LOT MORE cells.
Not even going into the hundreds of people working at Tezzeret's sanctum.
And actually, the Consortium only had 5 walkers in its employ with 3 other freelancers.
But then again, that was all during Tezzeret's tenure. Jace took over the Ravnica cell after he wiped it out just because he had nothing else to work with and no clue where to start. ONLY the Ravnica cell.
Ok, I was obviously mistaken about the Consortium then. If the non-Ravnican cells are still out there and functioning then it's close to what I was thinking of.
Why? The worlds keep improving, the art keeps improving, almost everything is getting better. Hell compare the Phyrexians of Mirrodin to the Phyrexians os Phyrexia to see how far Creative has come.
Yeah, they aren't perfect, but I think you are focusing too much on the few negatives and too little on the good work.
Planeswalkers restored to former power levels.
Why? Do you not enjoy having planeswalkers in your story? Because No story between the invasion until Time spiral had a planeswalker protagonist. If planeswalkers weren't of the power level they are today, they wouldn't be in the story at all.
The old storyline.
I don't understand this. You want them to do Urza's block again? You want them to do the Invasion again... we already saw that.
I understand you are not very happy with the direction magic has gone as of late. But now you are only seeing the bad parts of magic. The planeswalker novels have given us some of the best books magic has ever seen, the new planeswalkers have allowed planeswalkers to actually show up in the story again (without resolving the problems in seconds), and worldbuilding has improved greatly.
A new Creative department.
Planeswalkers restored to former power levels.
A stronger focus on Legends.
The old storyline.
So they need to be godlike again? I don't see how nigh-omnipotence makes for a good character trait. Look at golden age Superman. Not a lot of character development.
Planeswalkers are the story now. If we focus on Legends, we'll have stories we get interested in end a year after they start. We'll begin a new story every block.
The old storyline? Like the above post, I can't help but think you just want to have a retelling of the Invasion. We know what happened. It would be most boring.
As much as I agree that Skaterbruskis comments comes across a tad too negative (we certainly don´t need a new creative department - just a few different decisions that might not even be in the hands of Creative), this point is just unfair. Stories do not need planeswalker protagonists to be enjoyable. Also you are comparing apples with oranges simply because of the difference in volume (of storyline content) we got back then and now. Which means even though planeswalkers weren´t the main protagonists we still "saw" much more of them then now although they are the main protagonists now.
And of course they would be in the story, just not as main protagonists.
Well i guess it's all a matter of opinon, but when you can go two whole years without seeing a planeswalker (Kamigawa-Ravnica), i think that's a problem. Hell from Oddessy to Ravnica we only had... what? 30 pages that featured a planeswalker? Most of that being Karn.
Stories don't need planeswalkers to be enjoyable, but if you want planeswalkers in your stories, they are going to need to be neowalkers. So saying "I want oldwalkers" is saying "I don't want Planeswalkers in my stories." I guess that's okay, but i'd rather that be stated outright instead of implied.
I think there is a place for a Lex Luthor-type in the Multiverse, but he or she must be handled very carefully.
First of all, it can't be a planeswalker, so it must be a legendary creature. and I'm assuming that this legendary creature will get different versions depending on what set he or she appears in. Maybe a super cycle where there's one version of him for every color, each appearing in a separate block?
Second, for him or her to show up on multiple worlds and in multiple blocks (to fight against multiple PWs?) the guy must have a way to travel from plane to plane (like, maybe...Venser's ship?)
Finally, what's his motivation to fight PWs? If I were |\|0rM@L d00d, I wouldn't want any part of a PW, even a Bradywalker. So why would this guy want him some? You could always do it Bruce Wayne-style: "those damned Planeswalkers killed my family and took everything I loved away, so now I will make them PAY!!!!" but that might get a little tired after a few novels and webcomics. He'd also have to avoid the other super-baddies (Bolas, Phyrexia and Eldrazi) just to stay alive.
As far as precedent is concerned, it has been done before, sort of. Remember, Yawgie bested a couple of PWs as a regular guy in The Thran, and Jodah more than held his own against guys like Freyalise and Leshrac (sp?). so It can be done.
I liked Planeswalkers back then were better I think. They were forces of nature. I don't find it as interesting when we have these main characters that just need to planeswalk away to escape almost any danger. Stories were way more engaging back then.
Show me 1 current character as awesome as Volrath, or Crovax. Toshi Umezawa was awesome. Gerrard was badass. Man, I can legit go on for pages.
I just feel that I cared more about them because they really could die at any minute. We know Jace isn't going to die. Plus, none of these new walkers could even throw down with these old legends. Volrath&Crovax vs. every neowalker. My money's on the Evincars.
and Barin Sengir, nuff said.
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Phyrexians were also infintely more cool back then, we just have better(More defined) art now. These new phyrexians don't follow doctrine, and are just going to end up fighting each other.
I'm just saying. The story was much better before the mending, and I think it should eventually find it's way back to that.
What we need are characters who don't go on random quests with each other for the benefit of the story. With no stake in the worlds they are visiting, it becomes both anti-climactic, redundant and expected when planeswalkers leave at the first sign of apocalypse. The worst part is that you can't blame them.
I think the problem is that we don't care about the good guys really anymore.
Reminds me of the Dark Knight the Joker completely overshadowed the Batman which is cool once.
But at least to me the only Planeswalker that is remotely likable is Gideon.
Before Gerrard, Toshe, Barrin, Urza,Bo Llevar they where all likable characters that you rooted for because they stood in contrast against and amplified the evil of their nemesis, as opposed to the lifeless characters that we have now. Hell I root for the Eldrazi and Phyrexians to kill Elspeth and Sorin the characters are so unlikable.
Crovax, Erati, and Mishra where all likable characters that made their fall from hero status to villian status more tragic. Not like the paper cut outs that are sarken and tezzeret.
To be short we need heroes we actually can root for not just badass villians, and as others have touched upon:
Superman had metropolis he had Lois Lane he had a supporting cast that made him interesting and human the same for most other characters.
Now the characters are little more the stock characters in an RPG:
Chaos has stolen the chalice of power in the temple of doom, will stoic white aligned hero, hot headed female hero, over intelligent hero, and the hero with MYSTERIOUS past be able to stop Chaos!
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I liked Planeswalkers back then were better I think. They were forces of nature. I don't find it as interesting when we have these main characters that just need to planeswalk away to escape almost any danger. Stories were way more engaging back then.
I think the problem is that, besides being able to travel to another plane, planeswalkers aren't that terribly special. The oldwalkers had power, and that power influenced minds that were previously mortal in very interesting ways. The neowalkers are basically just glorified wizards.
Now, the Ice Age cycle is one of my favorite sets of books, and the main focus there is a very powerful mage. Jodah seems more competent than the neowalkers, which boggles my mind. Sure, he's had a very long time to practice his magic, but even I think even he admitted he was no match for a planeswalker (Freyalise in that instance). And that was sort of the thing. Planeswalkers added a huge dose of chaos to any story they were in, just by their nature.
Another gripe is, well, how exactly are the neowalkers supposed to stand up to oldwalker-level threats, without the story having a copout ending? They don't have the raw power, and even with that raw power, someone like Urza barely defeated the Phyrexians. I just don't buy them defeating, say, the Eldrazi.
Show me 1 current character as awesome as Volrath, or Crovax. Toshi Umezawa was awesome. Gerrard was badass. Man, I can legit go on for pages.
....and Barin Sengir, nuff said.
Here's the thing, though: none of those guys that you mentioned are planeswalkers. you're comparing apples to oranges.
As far as compelling characters go, the neowalkers beat the oldwalkers pretty handily. Urza, Teferi and Taysir (and maybe Jaya) were the only oldwalkers I really cared about. Karn wasn't even that interesting a character once he ascended.
I think the story appeal of the oldwalkers was in how they related to normal people. Jodah was defined by his relationship with Freyalise. Xantcha and Barrin were defined by their relationship with Urza. Jhoira was defined by her relaitonship to Teferi. The most interesting parts of the Time Spiral books (aside from watching Nicol bolas in action) was seeing Teferi stripped of his power and having to deal with the same "force of nature" that he used to be, and realizing just how much of an insufferable prick he was as a planeswalker.
but with the neowalkers being mortal, you have a much more humanizing effect with them. They can be beat. They can grow old. They can bleed. they can die (a lot easier than the oldwalkers, that is). Teeth of Akoum was as much about getting to know Sorin and Nissa and how they related to each other, as it was about releasing the Eldrazi. We just didn't get that with the majority of the oldwalkers. Read the wikis about the 9 titans, and aside from Urza, Taysir and Tevesh Szat (sp?) you'll find precious little in terms of explaining their character, background and motivation. And I doubt Commodore Guff is a strong enogh character to carry an entire book like Jace could.
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I'm wondering what else Creative could add to this mix.
Could we see a "Multiverse-wide crossover?" They never did publish that old "Planeswalkers War" story, after all.
How about a superteam of PWs? I cringe at the thought of a Jace-tus Leage, but would that be something to enhance the current storyline?
Mostly, i'm wondering what other major villain archetypes they can introduce into the MTG Rogues gallery.
I know this is all speculation, but I like imagining the possibilities of this. Do you guys have any ideas?
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Honestly, No. I have a lot of faith in the creative team, some would even say it was misplaced, but I have absolutely zero faith in their ability to pull off a Superfriends style team without it turning completely f*%^ing goofy.
They could do it in the past with the Nine Titans, largely thanks to the fact that each walker was already practically an inhuman army, so it was actually interesting to see the humanizing effect their interactions provided.
But with the neowalkers? Uh-uh. Liliana and Jace working together, that's fine. Tezzeret working with Baltrice in ToM?... That one didn't work very well. Combining yet MORE walkers together would create a gigantic mess rather than a team. Lord knows Venser and Koth derping it up while Elspeth runs around in circles has been just damn painful to have to watch. Ironically, Elspeth and Koth worked FINE together until you introduced that one disparity too many.
Having said that, if there were a team of walkers with very similar personalities, then I think they'd have the right dynamic, but unfortunately, you'd lose rather a lot of what would make it interesting.
Basically, as it is, none of the walkers have personalities that play very well against each other outside of a pair.
It will consist of himself, Chandra, Jace, spiderman, green lanter, and bob from accounting.
It will be released as a summer blockbuster.
All joking aside, i'd rather see a Dr. Who style multiverse where lone planeswalkers interact with planes every so often bumping into each other. I think that would be far more interesting that trying to figure out what 5 different planeswalkers should be doing on a givien plane.
Well, with Karn popping up, apparently getting curbstomped.
*grumbles about five walkers, using disparaging epithets and the word "cycle" several times*
Also, don't go fronting on Bob from Accounting. He can hold his own (at least until an Orgg shows up.)
Also, as Skibo mentioned, a Doctor Who style multiverse would probably work out for the better for two reasons I think:
1. Planeswalkers constantly meeting up with each other on every plane is logically inconsistent when you consider the small number of walkers per plane, and the fact that planes are extremely vast world in and of themselves.
2. It would give us ther oppertunity to see more focus on legendary creatures and how they interact with the walkers; that could make for interesting story.
To me it's like they have no real motive to traversing the multiverse beyond running away from something.
Lilliana would be another exception as her motive is clear and by far the most interesting of all the walkers.
Ajani's was oversimplified that being vengeance and all but what now? As far as he knows Bolas is dead, his brother avenged and him nothing to do.
Jace is trying to run the Consortium to the best of his abilities but to what ends?
Sarkhan is a mad puppet of Bolas but is his master the great dragon spirit that set him across the multiverse? This is something of a loose end as there is no confirmation of it.
Elspeth, I hate Elspeth but she could be an interesting character should she form a love/hate relationship with a darker character.
Nissa is stupid and I can't see any sorta development from her.
Garruk's plight is something sadly ignored but may in fact be picked up in Innistrad?
Sorin was poorly written and is in need of redeeming. Another character that might return in Innistrad? He may be an interesting character that fights for control of a plane versus another villain like Baron Sengir!
I can't see Koth abandoning his home and would make for a good candidate for a martyr. Explosive finish!
Gideon has potential of being a good leader character. A possible general but he needs to be supported by a cast of team oriented walkers/soldiers. Considering that he may wage war against the eldrazi we would need a host of new walkers that have better people skills. Come to think of it Ajani could be a good ally for him.
Chandra is decent but needs to be put in more heroic situations.
The rest were pretty accurate as far as I know.
Sort of, but not really. At least not the way that I mean it. Tezz is still a planeswalker who can, in theory, go toe to toe with any other planeswalker in a fight. When I think about the "Lex Luthor" archetype, I mean someone who has no choice but to use preparation, planning, and guile to win because they cannot physically (or magically) match their opponent. So they're forced to use other methods, and they're very good at it. Perhaps this could also be the "Batman" archetype.
Again, not exactly what I'm talking about. When I say "evil organization" I mean a large, efficient organization with many cogs that functions like a vast corporate or military machine. An army really. The Infinite Consortium has what, a dozen members? And they're all powerful planeswalkers, as far as I know anyway. I'm talking about something more like HYDRA or COBRA, as opposed to the Secret Society of Supervillains.
Welcome to ALL of Test of Metal featuring Tezzeret. Without his arm, he can't cast. His arm was literally his magical crutch, so he had to think out everything without it against vastly more powerful opponents. Tezzeret is really actually an awful wizard.
The Infinite Consortium was about 2-3 dozen members. Per cell. With at least 6 cells on 6 different planes, and implications there were A LOT MORE cells.
Not even going into the hundreds of people working at Tezzeret's sanctum.
And actually, the Consortium only had 5 walkers in its employ with 3 other freelancers.
But then again, that was all during Tezzeret's tenure. Jace took over the Ravnica cell after he wiped it out just because he had nothing else to work with and no clue where to start. ONLY the Ravnica cell.
Fair enough. He's still a planeswalker though and he has his power back now (I think). I was still thinking more along the lines of someone who is a normal, mortal being and always will be, not a planeswalker who temporarily loses their powers.
Ok, I was obviously mistaken about the Consortium then. If the non-Ravnican cells are still out there and functioning then it's close to what I was thinking of.
A new Creative department.
Planeswalkers restored to former power levels.
A stronger focus on Legends.
The old storyline.
Why? The worlds keep improving, the art keeps improving, almost everything is getting better. Hell compare the Phyrexians of Mirrodin to the Phyrexians os Phyrexia to see how far Creative has come.
Yeah, they aren't perfect, but I think you are focusing too much on the few negatives and too little on the good work.
Why? Do you not enjoy having planeswalkers in your story? Because No story between the invasion until Time spiral had a planeswalker protagonist. If planeswalkers weren't of the power level they are today, they wouldn't be in the story at all.
I don't understand this. You want them to do Urza's block again? You want them to do the Invasion again... we already saw that.
I understand you are not very happy with the direction magic has gone as of late. But now you are only seeing the bad parts of magic. The planeswalker novels have given us some of the best books magic has ever seen, the new planeswalkers have allowed planeswalkers to actually show up in the story again (without resolving the problems in seconds), and worldbuilding has improved greatly.
So they need to be godlike again? I don't see how nigh-omnipotence makes for a good character trait. Look at golden age Superman. Not a lot of character development.
Planeswalkers are the story now. If we focus on Legends, we'll have stories we get interested in end a year after they start. We'll begin a new story every block.
The old storyline? Like the above post, I can't help but think you just want to have a retelling of the Invasion. We know what happened. It would be most boring.
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Well i guess it's all a matter of opinon, but when you can go two whole years without seeing a planeswalker (Kamigawa-Ravnica), i think that's a problem. Hell from Oddessy to Ravnica we only had... what? 30 pages that featured a planeswalker? Most of that being Karn.
Stories don't need planeswalkers to be enjoyable, but if you want planeswalkers in your stories, they are going to need to be neowalkers. So saying "I want oldwalkers" is saying "I don't want Planeswalkers in my stories." I guess that's okay, but i'd rather that be stated outright instead of implied.
First of all, it can't be a planeswalker, so it must be a legendary creature. and I'm assuming that this legendary creature will get different versions depending on what set he or she appears in. Maybe a super cycle where there's one version of him for every color, each appearing in a separate block?
Second, for him or her to show up on multiple worlds and in multiple blocks (to fight against multiple PWs?) the guy must have a way to travel from plane to plane (like, maybe...Venser's ship?)
Finally, what's his motivation to fight PWs? If I were |\|0rM@L d00d, I wouldn't want any part of a PW, even a Bradywalker. So why would this guy want him some? You could always do it Bruce Wayne-style: "those damned Planeswalkers killed my family and took everything I loved away, so now I will make them PAY!!!!" but that might get a little tired after a few novels and webcomics. He'd also have to avoid the other super-baddies (Bolas, Phyrexia and Eldrazi) just to stay alive.
As far as precedent is concerned, it has been done before, sort of. Remember, Yawgie bested a couple of PWs as a regular guy in The Thran, and Jodah more than held his own against guys like Freyalise and Leshrac (sp?). so It can be done.
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I liked Planeswalkers back then were better I think. They were forces of nature. I don't find it as interesting when we have these main characters that just need to planeswalk away to escape almost any danger. Stories were way more engaging back then.
Show me 1 current character as awesome as Volrath, or Crovax. Toshi Umezawa was awesome. Gerrard was badass. Man, I can legit go on for pages.
I just feel that I cared more about them because they really could die at any minute. We know Jace isn't going to die. Plus, none of these new walkers could even throw down with these old legends. Volrath&Crovax vs. every neowalker. My money's on the Evincars.
and Barin Sengir, nuff said.
_________
Phyrexians were also infintely more cool back then, we just have better(More defined) art now. These new phyrexians don't follow doctrine, and are just going to end up fighting each other.
I'm just saying. The story was much better before the mending, and I think it should eventually find it's way back to that.
Reminds me of the Dark Knight the Joker completely overshadowed the Batman which is cool once.
But at least to me the only Planeswalker that is remotely likable is Gideon.
Before Gerrard, Toshe, Barrin, Urza,Bo Llevar they where all likable characters that you rooted for because they stood in contrast against and amplified the evil of their nemesis, as opposed to the lifeless characters that we have now. Hell I root for the Eldrazi and Phyrexians to kill Elspeth and Sorin the characters are so unlikable.
Crovax, Erati, and Mishra where all likable characters that made their fall from hero status to villian status more tragic. Not like the paper cut outs that are sarken and tezzeret.
To be short we need heroes we actually can root for not just badass villians, and as others have touched upon:
Superman had metropolis he had Lois Lane he had a supporting cast that made him interesting and human the same for most other characters.
Now the characters are little more the stock characters in an RPG:
Chaos has stolen the chalice of power in the temple of doom, will stoic white aligned hero, hot headed female hero, over intelligent hero, and the hero with MYSTERIOUS past be able to stop Chaos!
I think the problem is that, besides being able to travel to another plane, planeswalkers aren't that terribly special. The oldwalkers had power, and that power influenced minds that were previously mortal in very interesting ways. The neowalkers are basically just glorified wizards.
Now, the Ice Age cycle is one of my favorite sets of books, and the main focus there is a very powerful mage. Jodah seems more competent than the neowalkers, which boggles my mind. Sure, he's had a very long time to practice his magic, but even I think even he admitted he was no match for a planeswalker (Freyalise in that instance). And that was sort of the thing. Planeswalkers added a huge dose of chaos to any story they were in, just by their nature.
Another gripe is, well, how exactly are the neowalkers supposed to stand up to oldwalker-level threats, without the story having a copout ending? They don't have the raw power, and even with that raw power, someone like Urza barely defeated the Phyrexians. I just don't buy them defeating, say, the Eldrazi.
Here's the thing, though: none of those guys that you mentioned are planeswalkers. you're comparing apples to oranges.
As far as compelling characters go, the neowalkers beat the oldwalkers pretty handily. Urza, Teferi and Taysir (and maybe Jaya) were the only oldwalkers I really cared about. Karn wasn't even that interesting a character once he ascended.
I think the story appeal of the oldwalkers was in how they related to normal people. Jodah was defined by his relationship with Freyalise. Xantcha and Barrin were defined by their relationship with Urza. Jhoira was defined by her relaitonship to Teferi. The most interesting parts of the Time Spiral books (aside from watching Nicol bolas in action) was seeing Teferi stripped of his power and having to deal with the same "force of nature" that he used to be, and realizing just how much of an insufferable prick he was as a planeswalker.
but with the neowalkers being mortal, you have a much more humanizing effect with them. They can be beat. They can grow old. They can bleed. they can die (a lot easier than the oldwalkers, that is). Teeth of Akoum was as much about getting to know Sorin and Nissa and how they related to each other, as it was about releasing the Eldrazi. We just didn't get that with the majority of the oldwalkers. Read the wikis about the 9 titans, and aside from Urza, Taysir and Tevesh Szat (sp?) you'll find precious little in terms of explaining their character, background and motivation. And I doubt Commodore Guff is a strong enogh character to carry an entire book like Jace could.
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