I don't know, I think gladiator-esque match threads would be cool for certain characters (neo-walkers especially). It's just tough for this one specifically. I'd like to imagine that O-Kagachi would win, because his spell, Final Judgment, exiles all creatures, which works directly against the Eldrazi's invincibility.
Using card abilities for flavor, but that's my take on it.
They were never clear on exactly what O-Kagachi's powers were, other than that they were formitable, and we've never seen the Eldrazi's true form, just the physical ones that they were forced into on Zendikar.
Oh, we've had similar debates about Eldrazi and Progenitus, we've also never come up with a real feasible answer. Because, well, frankly, as with most big-beastie-monster-rawr-bad-asses of the Multiverse, they never fully explained the true power of these creatures.
O-Kagachi is a very powerful being, but other than Final Judgment we really can't tell what he can do, same with his counterpart the All-Consuming Oni of Chaos.
We don't know much about the Eldrazi, we know that their physical form is significantly weaker than there incorporeal ones, since they could destroy planes while in the Blind Eternities, we also know that their physical forms are extremly powerful at the same time, able to annihilate almost anything in their path.
Progenitus is another creature we don't know too much about, as he wasn't really... All there in Alara Unbroken, since he was lacking in blue and black mana, but he was at one point a extremely powerful creature that was later forced into the form of a Hydra Avatar.
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Not enough information for an educated guess. But if I had to lay money on the outcome, I think I'd go with the Eldrazi. Simply based on their being predators of entire planes of existence, and O-Kagachi being a creature of a plane (albeit an extremely powerful one).
I am pretty certain the fight would be fun to watch. From whatever might be considered a "safe" distance in the multiverse. Whoever won, I doubt much of Kamigawa as we know it would be left in the aftermath.
O-Kagachi. Much like how Oona is very entuned to the plane, so is O-Kagachi. O-Kagachi is also the first spirit to ever exist in Kamigawa. O-Kagachi waged a war that lasted twenty years, and didn't even show up until the twentieth year when he ate a large portion of the land and 3000 of Konda's soldiers.
If Kyodai or "That Which Was Taken" wasn't taken from O-Kagachi, he would be a even more powerful threat. Also keep in mind that O-Kagachi had a Physical Form and Incorporeal Form as well being a spirit and all. Who's to say O-Kagachi wouldn't be more powerful in his Incorporeal Form if people bring up the fact that Eldrazi also have an Incorporeal Form.
The Eldrazi are like bolas, except Nicol Bolas is at least smarter than them. All the Eldrazi do is Eat and travel; eat and travel. O-Kagachi could at least formulate coordinated plans against them.
O-Kagachi mortally wounded Yosei, the guardian dragon of Konda's realm with little effort and tore through all the magical defenses around Konda's castle that were very powerful spells, keep that in mind.
The Eldrazi are like bolas, except Nicol Bolas is at least smarter than them. All the Eldrazi do is Eat and travel; eat and travel. O-Kagachi could at least formulate coordinated plans against them.
You are over simplifying the Eldrazi. They may only "eat and travel" but that doesn't mean they are easy to get rid of. Three VERY powerful planeswalkers tried to destroy them and they failed. You are omitting that the Eldrazi also have powers of their own.
Also, that someone is able to plan doens't mean he can win. Besides the actual plan, you need resources to put it in motion. O-Kagachi may be intelligent and plan, but that plan could fail or could not be viable.
The OP ain't restricting the Eldrazi to a physical form, so one Eldrazi could just eat Kamigawa from the Blind Eternities, right?
Storywise, I think that since O-Kagachi is a kami (THE kami, you could say) and thus intrinsically bound to his native plane, the case could be made that he would be just as susceptible to the unbound Eldrazi as any other plane. Who knows though, maybe the kakuryo could rally and fight back, probably with the utsushiyo in tow.
I love these "hypothetical battle" debates. My brother and I go back and forth over stuff like "Captain America vs. Batman" and "Captain Marvel vs. Captain Mar-Vell" all of the time.
The latest one we've been debating is Yawgmoth vs. Bolas. Maybe that will be my next poll...
O-Kagachi is sort of a 'Jade Emperor' 'Head of the Celestial Bureaucracy' sort of character... like the mythology he is built from, he is supremely powerful but still relate-able, he can (and indeed has) been involved, and even lost, in conflicts born of the 'mortal' world.
The Eldrazi, the lovecraftian horrors that they are, are 'beyond' mortal power scales. Three god-like beings, using all their might, bound them temporarily. When they awoke, which they did not-to-long after their binding by their reckoning, they trashed the entire plane they were on (even when the whole plane woke up and fought them).
From a narrative standpoint, the high Shinto spirits could be reasoned with, bargained with, even tricked... Cosmic Horrors can be, at best, bound or hidden from.
I think the kicker here is that, even though he is a plane, O-Kagachi isn't a planeswalker. The Eldrazi in their true forms exist in in the Blind Eternities, and eat planes from there. It doesn't how smart he is, O-Kagachi simply can't even perceive them, much less fight them.
The latest one we've been debating is Yawgmoth vs. Bolas. Maybe that will be my next poll...
Yawgmoth was a scientist hellbent of perfecting life. He understood everything form artifice to nanotechnology. He spent centuries building his power, creating massive weapons of war, and all the wile allowing his plane to continue on it's quest for perfection. Though he was evil, there was a twisted logic to his works.
Bolas is a self-absorbed, one-dimentional twit; liked by no one except the Magic Creative staff. He spends centuries planning power grabs only to be defeated by plot convince, or really having no plan to begin with. (I released the Eldrazi! WHEEEEEE! On to my next evil.)
9 old walkers in titan engines barely posed a threat to Yawgmoth at the height of his power. Bolas isn't even that anymore.
Yawgmoth was a scientist hellbent of perfecting life. He understood everything form artifice to nanotechnology. He spent centuries building his power, creating massive weapons of war, and all the wile allowing his plane to continue on it's quest for perfection. Though he was evil, there was a twisted logic to his works.
Bolas is a self-absorbed, one-dimentional twit; liked by no one except the Magic Creative staff. He spends centuries planning power grabs only to be defeated by plot convince, or really having no plan to begin with. (I released the Eldrazi! WHEEEEEE! On to my next evil.)
9 old walkers in titan engines barely posed a threat to Yawgmoth at the height of his power. Bolas isn't even that anymore.
I think this is a problem with these polls. Is the OP asking which character is cooler or which character would kill/beat the other in an confrontation? Because you are stating that Yawgmoth is cooler (which I agree), but not necessarily more powerful or smarter: after all, he was also defeated...
I think this is a problem with these polls. Is the OP asking which character is cooler or which character would kill/beat the other in an confrontation? Because you are stating that Yawgmoth is cooler (which I agree), but not necessarily more powerful or smarter: after all, he was also defeated...
Yawgmoth > Nicol Bolas.
No contest.
Yawgmoth had all of his plane worth as an army, plus the plane's people he was invading as part of his army. He had war machines. Yawgmoth even took a direct hit from the Null Moon and all it's white mana which was also a trap.
Nicol Bolas died to a giant hammer when he fell for a trap that allowed himself to be killed. The great scheming dragon fell for a trap.
Maybe it's just me but who would win a fight a Post-Mending Bolas or Yawgmoth who was once human and became this great and power entity that could rival 9 walkers in there powerful robots?
Now I have seen much talk of how the Eldrazi can exist in the blind eternities in a non-phyiscal form and devour planes, correct? Then why couldn't O-Kagachi just planeswalk like Myojin of Night did and just go to Zendikar and beat the Eldrazi twice to death while they are bound in there weakened physical forms?
Yawgmoth > Nicol Bolas.
No contest.
Yawgmoth had all of his plane worth as an army, plus the plane's people he was invading as part of his army. He had war machines. Yawgmoth even took a direct hit from the Null Moon and all it's white mana which was also a trap.
Nicol Bolas died to a giant hammer when he fell for a trap that allowed himself to be killed. The great scheming dragon fell for a trap.
Maybe it's just me but who would win a fight a Post-Mending Bolas or Yawgmoth who was once human and became this great and power entity that could rival 9 walkers in there powerful robots?
Now I have seen much talk of how the Eldrazi can exist in the blind eternities in a non-phyiscal form and devour planes, correct? Then why couldn't O-Kagachi just planeswalk like Myojin of Night did and just go to Zendikar and beat the Eldrazi twice to death while they are bound in there weakened physical forms?
Bolas controlled ever plane in the multiverse plus two other multiverses...
Oh wait we don't know that... because we don't know anything about Bolas.
* YOu can't argue one person is better than another when we don't have any idea who's more powerful. It's foolish to say that Yawgmoth would beat Bolas when you can't even tell me how powerful Bolas is.
FOr the record, Bolas being punked by a dude in a skirt doesn't gage power. Karona (the undisputed, most powerful being in the multiverese) was defeated by two unmen.
Karona (the undisputed, most powerful being in the multiverese) was defeated by two unmen.
Don't mention that name! it makes my eyes, and some parts i won't discuss any furthur, bleed..
As for the whole Eldrazi thing... we don't know how powerfull they are, we do know that O'Kagachi wiped out a big chunk of Konda's army.
We haven't read about how the Eldrazi do whatever it is they do.
Gaging power seems rather hard, but i tend to steer towards the Kami in this one with the info known to us.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
You guys think even oldwalker Bolas couldn't beat Yawgie?
I think Bolas's greatest strength pre-mending was his mental capacity, and his preference of outsmarting his opponents rather than overpowering them. is it possible that he could use one of his lawn-drawn out schemes to weaken Phyrexia from within and attack Yawg at his weakest? just wondering.
We think O-Kagachi would win without a doubt. in their physical forms O-Kagachi could destroy them each ala Final Judgment , or if they kill him he could just return (soulshift) back the Utsushiyo to fight again. Plus, O-Kagachi could enlist the help of the indestructable Myojin for added muscle.
You guys think even oldwalker Bolas couldn't beat Yawgie?
I think Bolas's greatest strength pre-mending was his mental capacity, and his preference of outsmarting his opponents rather than overpowering them. is it possible that he could use one of his lawn-drawn out schemes to weaken Phyrexia from within and attack Yawg at his weakest? just wondering.
It took Nine Oldwalkers, the legacy, a couple of millenia, dominaria and timeline manipulation to beat yawgy. Needless to say, Bolas wasn't interested, and he was around.
It took Nine Oldwalkers, the legacy, a couple of millenia, dominaria and timeline manipulation to beat yawgy. Needless to say, Bolas wasn't interested, and he was around.
Bolas wasn't around during the invasion, he was dead/sealed off in his own realm. If he was, he would have sided with Urza since Bolas has a soft spot in his heart for Dominaria.
The two could not have met since thier time lines don't overlap.
Bolas wasn't around during the invasion, he was dead/sealed off in his own realm. If he was, he would have sided with Urza since Bolas has a soft spot in his heart for Dominaria.
The two could not have met since thier time lines don't overlap.
Also, being bested by a guy in a dress and flippy-floppies probably wasn't good for Bolas's street credit during the time.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
New Bolas obviously falls apart to the collective Phyrexians, Old Bolas was a supernaturally gifted schemer who maybe, at the cumulation of a century long scheme might destroy/take over/whatever Yawgy... maybe by secretly supporting an army of other planeswalkers in power armor or something, while keeping himself out of danger.
In the Eldrazi O-Kagachi conflict, big O seems to have the 'I was never a card!' benefit on his size, but if he *was* a card, I imagine that he would be a five color affair that could easily be 'All is Dusted'... even the great heart of his power (That Which Was Taken), plus the horde of the people who defeated him could all fall to a single Annihilator bout of any of the three titans... I don't think the one spell on O-Kagachi's side decides the battle, even assuming corporeal Eldrazi.
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O-Kagachi vs. any of the Eldrazi big boys: who wins?
(sorry, I don't know how to make this into a poll)
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Comparing applies to oranges doesn't work. We don't have any real idea of O-kagachi's powers, nor do we really know what the Eldrazi are capable of.
Using card abilities for flavor, but that's my take on it.
So I'm not sure.
O-Kagachi is a very powerful being, but other than Final Judgment we really can't tell what he can do, same with his counterpart the All-Consuming Oni of Chaos.
We don't know much about the Eldrazi, we know that their physical form is significantly weaker than there incorporeal ones, since they could destroy planes while in the Blind Eternities, we also know that their physical forms are extremly powerful at the same time, able to annihilate almost anything in their path.
Progenitus is another creature we don't know too much about, as he wasn't really... All there in Alara Unbroken, since he was lacking in blue and black mana, but he was at one point a extremely powerful creature that was later forced into the form of a Hydra Avatar.
I am pretty certain the fight would be fun to watch. From whatever might be considered a "safe" distance in the multiverse. Whoever won, I doubt much of Kamigawa as we know it would be left in the aftermath.
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If Kyodai or "That Which Was Taken" wasn't taken from O-Kagachi, he would be a even more powerful threat. Also keep in mind that O-Kagachi had a Physical Form and Incorporeal Form as well being a spirit and all. Who's to say O-Kagachi wouldn't be more powerful in his Incorporeal Form if people bring up the fact that Eldrazi also have an Incorporeal Form.
The Eldrazi are like bolas, except Nicol Bolas is at least smarter than them. All the Eldrazi do is Eat and travel; eat and travel. O-Kagachi could at least formulate coordinated plans against them.
O-Kagachi mortally wounded Yosei, the guardian dragon of Konda's realm with little effort and tore through all the magical defenses around Konda's castle that were very powerful spells, keep that in mind.
You are over simplifying the Eldrazi. They may only "eat and travel" but that doesn't mean they are easy to get rid of. Three VERY powerful planeswalkers tried to destroy them and they failed. You are omitting that the Eldrazi also have powers of their own.
Also, that someone is able to plan doens't mean he can win. Besides the actual plan, you need resources to put it in motion. O-Kagachi may be intelligent and plan, but that plan could fail or could not be viable.
The OP ain't restricting the Eldrazi to a physical form, so one Eldrazi could just eat Kamigawa from the Blind Eternities, right?
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Cardwise, I think we know who wins. They need to reprint this card, for serious.
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The latest one we've been debating is Yawgmoth vs. Bolas. Maybe that will be my next poll...
Click the pic for more info.
O-Kagachi is sort of a 'Jade Emperor' 'Head of the Celestial Bureaucracy' sort of character... like the mythology he is built from, he is supremely powerful but still relate-able, he can (and indeed has) been involved, and even lost, in conflicts born of the 'mortal' world.
The Eldrazi, the lovecraftian horrors that they are, are 'beyond' mortal power scales. Three god-like beings, using all their might, bound them temporarily. When they awoke, which they did not-to-long after their binding by their reckoning, they trashed the entire plane they were on (even when the whole plane woke up and fought them).
From a narrative standpoint, the high Shinto spirits could be reasoned with, bargained with, even tricked... Cosmic Horrors can be, at best, bound or hidden from.
Yawgmoth was a scientist hellbent of perfecting life. He understood everything form artifice to nanotechnology. He spent centuries building his power, creating massive weapons of war, and all the wile allowing his plane to continue on it's quest for perfection. Though he was evil, there was a twisted logic to his works.
Bolas is a self-absorbed, one-dimentional twit; liked by no one except the Magic Creative staff. He spends centuries planning power grabs only to be defeated by plot convince, or really having no plan to begin with. (I released the Eldrazi! WHEEEEEE! On to my next evil.)
9 old walkers in titan engines barely posed a threat to Yawgmoth at the height of his power. Bolas isn't even that anymore.
I think this is a problem with these polls. Is the OP asking which character is cooler or which character would kill/beat the other in an confrontation? Because you are stating that Yawgmoth is cooler (which I agree), but not necessarily more powerful or smarter: after all, he was also defeated...
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go read apocalypse. bolas wouldn't have a prayer.
Bolas killed a planeswalking levithan with his bare hands, what do you mean he woldn't have a prayer?
No contest.
Yawgmoth had all of his plane worth as an army, plus the plane's people he was invading as part of his army. He had war machines. Yawgmoth even took a direct hit from the Null Moon and all it's white mana which was also a trap.
Nicol Bolas died to a giant hammer when he fell for a trap that allowed himself to be killed. The great scheming dragon fell for a trap.
Maybe it's just me but who would win a fight a Post-Mending Bolas or Yawgmoth who was once human and became this great and power entity that could rival 9 walkers in there powerful robots?
Bolas controlled ever plane in the multiverse plus two other multiverses...
Oh wait we don't know that... because we don't know anything about Bolas.
* YOu can't argue one person is better than another when we don't have any idea who's more powerful. It's foolish to say that Yawgmoth would beat Bolas when you can't even tell me how powerful Bolas is.
FOr the record, Bolas being punked by a dude in a skirt doesn't gage power. Karona (the undisputed, most powerful being in the multiverese) was defeated by two unmen.
Don't mention that name! it makes my eyes, and some parts i won't discuss any furthur, bleed..
As for the whole Eldrazi thing... we don't know how powerfull they are, we do know that O'Kagachi wiped out a big chunk of Konda's army.
We haven't read about how the Eldrazi do whatever it is they do.
Gaging power seems rather hard, but i tend to steer towards the Kami in this one with the info known to us.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
I think Bolas's greatest strength pre-mending was his mental capacity, and his preference of outsmarting his opponents rather than overpowering them. is it possible that he could use one of his lawn-drawn out schemes to weaken Phyrexia from within and attack Yawg at his weakest? just wondering.
Click the pic for more info.
It took Nine Oldwalkers, the legacy, a couple of millenia, dominaria and timeline manipulation to beat yawgy. Needless to say, Bolas wasn't interested, and he was around.
Bolas wasn't around during the invasion, he was dead/sealed off in his own realm. If he was, he would have sided with Urza since Bolas has a soft spot in his heart for Dominaria.
The two could not have met since thier time lines don't overlap.
Also, being bested by a guy in a dress and flippy-floppies probably wasn't good for Bolas's street credit during the time.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
In the Eldrazi O-Kagachi conflict, big O seems to have the 'I was never a card!' benefit on his size, but if he *was* a card, I imagine that he would be a five color affair that could easily be 'All is Dusted'... even the great heart of his power (That Which Was Taken), plus the horde of the people who defeated him could all fall to a single Annihilator bout of any of the three titans... I don't think the one spell on O-Kagachi's side decides the battle, even assuming corporeal Eldrazi.