So I searched a bit and didn't really see much discussion on this, but in the Planeswalker book it is hinted that Mishra was put in the vats while Xantcha was being spawned.
Gix had said he made her. "No simple rendering, fresh meat and blood brought from the place she will conquer."
Later in the book Gix calls her his "special one". That there were 7 thousand newts but only one like her and he looked for her after she was decanted. Xantcha tells Ratepe her concerns that she herself thinks she could be parts of Mishra.
Ratepe also tells her at some point "you're more like Mishra than I am, must have been something Gix put in your vat". His comment made her heart skip a beat and think back to Gix in the first sphere and how close her birth was to the brothers war. She didn't like any of the conclusions she came to.
Towards the end Xantcha seems to have accepted Gixs' "special flesh" and Mishras death around her birth might have something to do with each other. She even says the weakstone must be overjoyed when her and the new Mishra, Rat are together.
Obviously Lynn Abbey was more than hinting that Xantcha was made by Gix from Mishras parts. But nothing more has ever been heard of this.
Whats everyone elses take on this?
Do you guys think the brothers were traveling the planes together for thousands of years in some form?
Nop, I do not think Xantcha was Mishra. Xanthcha is a seperate entity, one of the mos timportant peopel in Urza's life. In my opinion it would render her character totally useless if she was just Mishra reanimated then....just no
As both Barinellos and Angelmonster have said, what part or parts made Xantcha have very little effect as to her character. One could even argue the point that this idea is one of the most important parts of the book (she's a Phyrexian fighting Phyrexians after all).
It's an interesting aside, but really has very little relevance in the long run. Xantcha was Xantcha and not Mishra 2.0 just as Karn is Karn and not Xantcha's heart encased in silver.
It's interesting. I've never noticed this. But the special "spark" that Gix mentions was when he telepathically made contact with her mind (in what basically equates to rape in Xantcha's views). But if he placed bits and pieces of Mishra's flesh into the vat, that's a pretty damned cool detail.
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It's interesting. I've never noticed this. But the special "spark" that Gix mentions was when he telepathically made contact with her mind (in what basically equates to rape in Xantcha's views). But if he placed bits and pieces of Mishra's flesh into the vat, that's a pretty damned cool detail.
I just do not liek the idea of Xantcha being anythign more or less then she already is. Xantcha to this day is one of my favorite characters because no matte rhow strong Urza was Xantcha was stronger. She made better choices and really grounded Urza at a time that he was at his worst. If you put Barrin in Xantcha's place I do not believe Barrin could have even brought Urza back from his cabin.
Know what I just realized? Urza is alot like the doctor in Doctor Who. He always has a companion beside him to be his "human heart" so to speak. Fist Tawnos then Xantcha and then Barrin, lol.
Well, Xantcha was the sum of a lot of things. Gix's mental manipulations, the horrors of what she had to endure, the self-realizations she came to that set her apart from her "brothers", the experiences she acquired. If she was decanted from part of Mishra's boiled flesh, it wouldn't diminish her character, it would just mean that some small part of who she is came from another interesting place.
Damn, I miss Xantcha.
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Still, if they ever announced "Xantcha is Mishra with a Phyrexian sex change!" then that is all she would be, a Phyrexian Mishra tranny. No one would see that she was one of the most well developed characters in Magic's history.
Still, if they ever announced "Xantcha is Mishra with a Phyrexian sex change!" then that is all she would be, a Phyrexian Mishra=tranny. No one would see that she was one of the most well developed characters in Magic's history.
I soooo want to argue this point!
But I won't. *coughJodahcough*
Anyhoo, it is a very nice addition to Xantcha's character and I'm glad you pointed it out to us, Zemo.
Xantcha isn't Mishra plus a lot of estrogen pills. She is made up of Mishra's boiled flesh, reprocessed like Phyrexia reprocesses everything. Presumably Mishra's flesh was probably also processed into the flesh of other newts. Unless Gix for some reason wanted all of it to go into her vat alone.
Xantcha isn't Mishra plus a lot of estrogen pills. She is made up of Mishra's boiled flesh, reprocessed like Phyrexia reprocesses everything. Presumably Mishra's flesh was probably also processed into the flesh of other newts. Unless Gix for some reason wanted all of it to go into her vat alone.
It is called a joke Eid, don't let it go ove ryour head!
Also I am officially dressing up as a Tranny Mishra who had a Phyrexian Sex change this Halloween. I will make this happen and I will be posting pictures! Your eyes will be bleeding but it will be worth it! lol
This is all a good point however no one has mentioned how Gix is a consummate liar. Not only is he a death machine, but he was the ultimate deceiver. Anything Gix proclaims must be discounted. Which is the very reason one should miss Gix as a great villain.
I take the side that Xantcha was not part of Mishra. Gix lies. Plain and simple. That's what makes him awesome. (After all his main motivation was his own survival, in spite of the biggest ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ boss of them all).
Xantcha is the greatest of all characters I've seen derived from the MTG writers. To me she's just a blob of flesh who panned out to be more than expected. She stepped in and kicked ass where gaps needed to be filled (usually when Urza was getting the crap beaten out of him - begging the whole question of planeswalkers being over-powered - do not get me started). All the time she was just trying to be good when the odds (and her nature*) were against her. (Xantcha was a "she" BTW. I would have accepted the whole sexless aspect until JR King stepped in with the whole Kerrick crap.)
I miss Xantcha too. Why can't there be more characters like her? I guarantee anything in the upcoming Scars garbage won't hold a candle to the character.
L. Kimbote
* in fact the parts in Serra's Realm were quite touching. At least from Xantcha's side of things. Urza = ass as always.
If Mishra's flesh was in Xantcha's vat...it's possible, but likely completely irrelevant. Raw material going into a particular being's construction does not necessarily yield significant effect.
Sadly, it's something that not every character quite gets...oh, Eladamri, Eladamri. I dig you, but you did do that one unforgivable act of killing one of the only two self-willed lesser Phyrexians we've ever seen, and an interesting one too. Don't know what I'm talking about? Read Nemesis. Very good one.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
I know, I know, I did too. Given the whole time bubble thing, there's a slim chance that Xantcha at least could come back...but there's no chance of Belbe, sadly.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
Well, I must admit that I have yet to read about some, as I'm currently stuck in Time Streams*. That said, I haven't read about Belbe, though Xantcha was a quality character that should not have been limited to one book. Mishra or no Mishra. (No Mishra in my opinion).
LK
(* Currently on the chapter where I'm supposed to feel sorry for a bunch of angels. They had what's coming to them :))
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Nemesis is one of the better novels, in my opinion. Ertai is especially good, I thought, since you get to see him more deeply than just a cocky little ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ that appears on flavor text. He gets a lot of character development.
Crovax is easily the worst part of that book, though. I never really liked him or his story at all. Not before he became a vampire, not after he became Evincar. He's just... boring.
Anyways, another reason Belbe was written particularly well, is because of the simple fact that she is one of the few very well done relationships established. Both emotional and physical.
See, I always liked the idea that Xantcha was one of the newts created from (among many other things) Mishra's flesh. (Which if I recall was her own speculation, not something Gix told her).
Aside from the obvious reasons (e.g. it adds some interesting symbolic layers to her relationship with Urza and Ratepe), it makes the resolution to Apocalypse more fulfilling to me for the following reason: Karn was created with Xantcha's heart stone, so symbolically this makes Karn her successor, and by extension, successor to Mishra. Thus, when Urza (along with the Legacy) is absorbed into Karn, it becomes a symbolic reunion of the two brothers. It's sort of a "the circle is now complete" moment - Urza and Mishra breaking Glacien's seal on the Phyrexian portal at Koilos led directly to their estrangement and allowed the Phyrexians back onto Dominaria; by metaphorically reuniting, they ended the Phyrexian threat on Dominaria. (Bonus points to that scene for also metaphorically having Glacien finally triumph over Yawgmoth, ending the cycle of events that began with The Thran.)
The multifaceted layers of symbolism surrounding Xantcha and her heartstone(plus the fact that Xantcha was indeed an awesome character) is one of the reasons I'm annoyed by the apparently retcon that her heartstone was the source of the phyrexian oil on Mirrodin (seriously - how many retcons are we going to get about the source of that oil? What's next - Nicol Bolas did it?).
While it does entice one to link up all of the minutia of the entire Brothers' War, Yawgmoth, Phyrexia, and the Legacy into this giganto-conspiracy with Karn at its hub, I don't really think that the characters need that. Xantcha, Mishra, Urza, Yawgmoth--and, yes, even Karn--are solid characters in their own respects, so it's not necessary for the extra symbolism.
That being said, it's an avenue that Creative can certainly venture. After all, they did use Xantcha's heartstone as the impetus for the new Mirrodin arc, so stranger stuff has happened.
I just love the notion that both Urza and Yawgmoth are such packrats. Neither can just throw away things and let it be; they're always recycling parts of everyone around them. For me, that was the symbolism behind Xantcha and her heartstone.
Gix had said he made her. "No simple rendering, fresh meat and blood brought from the place she will conquer."
Later in the book Gix calls her his "special one". That there were 7 thousand newts but only one like her and he looked for her after she was decanted. Xantcha tells Ratepe her concerns that she herself thinks she could be parts of Mishra.
Ratepe also tells her at some point "you're more like Mishra than I am, must have been something Gix put in your vat". His comment made her heart skip a beat and think back to Gix in the first sphere and how close her birth was to the brothers war. She didn't like any of the conclusions she came to.
Towards the end Xantcha seems to have accepted Gixs' "special flesh" and Mishras death around her birth might have something to do with each other. She even says the weakstone must be overjoyed when her and the new Mishra, Rat are together.
Obviously Lynn Abbey was more than hinting that Xantcha was made by Gix from Mishras parts. But nothing more has ever been heard of this.
Whats everyone elses take on this?
Do you guys think the brothers were traveling the planes together for thousands of years in some form?
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
It's an interesting aside, but really has very little relevance in the long run. Xantcha was Xantcha and not Mishra 2.0 just as Karn is Karn and not Xantcha's heart encased in silver.
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Know what I just realized? Urza is alot like the doctor in Doctor Who. He always has a companion beside him to be his "human heart" so to speak. Fist Tawnos then Xantcha and then Barrin, lol.
Damn, I miss Xantcha.
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I soooo want to argue this point!
But I won't. *coughJodahcough*
Anyhoo, it is a very nice addition to Xantcha's character and I'm glad you pointed it out to us, Zemo.
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Also I am officially dressing up as a Tranny Mishra who had a Phyrexian Sex change this Halloween. I will make this happen and I will be posting pictures! Your eyes will be bleeding but it will be worth it! lol
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I take the side that Xantcha was not part of Mishra. Gix lies. Plain and simple. That's what makes him awesome. (After all his main motivation was his own survival, in spite of the biggest ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ boss of them all).
Xantcha is the greatest of all characters I've seen derived from the MTG writers. To me she's just a blob of flesh who panned out to be more than expected. She stepped in and kicked ass where gaps needed to be filled (usually when Urza was getting the crap beaten out of him - begging the whole question of planeswalkers being over-powered - do not get me started). All the time she was just trying to be good when the odds (and her nature*) were against her. (Xantcha was a "she" BTW. I would have accepted the whole sexless aspect until JR King stepped in with the whole Kerrick crap.)
I miss Xantcha too. Why can't there be more characters like her? I guarantee anything in the upcoming Scars garbage won't hold a candle to the character.
L. Kimbote
* in fact the parts in Serra's Realm were quite touching. At least from Xantcha's side of things. Urza = ass as always.
Aaron: Are you hungry? I haven't eaten since later this afternoon. (Primer)
Sadly, it's something that not every character quite gets...oh, Eladamri, Eladamri. I dig you, but you did do that one unforgivable act of killing one of the only two self-willed lesser Phyrexians we've ever seen, and an interesting one too. Don't know what I'm talking about? Read Nemesis. Very good one.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
I know, I know, I did too. Given the whole time bubble thing, there's a slim chance that Xantcha at least could come back...but there's no chance of Belbe, sadly.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
LK
(* Currently on the chapter where I'm supposed to feel sorry for a bunch of angels. They had what's coming to them :))
Aaron: Are you hungry? I haven't eaten since later this afternoon. (Primer)
Crovax is easily the worst part of that book, though. I never really liked him or his story at all. Not before he became a vampire, not after he became Evincar. He's just... boring.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Anyways, another reason Belbe was written particularly well, is because of the simple fact that she is one of the few very well done relationships established. Both emotional and physical.
Aside from the obvious reasons (e.g. it adds some interesting symbolic layers to her relationship with Urza and Ratepe), it makes the resolution to Apocalypse more fulfilling to me for the following reason: Karn was created with Xantcha's heart stone, so symbolically this makes Karn her successor, and by extension, successor to Mishra. Thus, when Urza (along with the Legacy) is absorbed into Karn, it becomes a symbolic reunion of the two brothers. It's sort of a "the circle is now complete" moment - Urza and Mishra breaking Glacien's seal on the Phyrexian portal at Koilos led directly to their estrangement and allowed the Phyrexians back onto Dominaria; by metaphorically reuniting, they ended the Phyrexian threat on Dominaria. (Bonus points to that scene for also metaphorically having Glacien finally triumph over Yawgmoth, ending the cycle of events that began with The Thran.)
The multifaceted layers of symbolism surrounding Xantcha and her heartstone(plus the fact that Xantcha was indeed an awesome character) is one of the reasons I'm annoyed by the apparently retcon that her heartstone was the source of the phyrexian oil on Mirrodin (seriously - how many retcons are we going to get about the source of that oil? What's next - Nicol Bolas did it?).
That being said, it's an avenue that Creative can certainly venture. After all, they did use Xantcha's heartstone as the impetus for the new Mirrodin arc, so stranger stuff has happened.
I just love the notion that both Urza and Yawgmoth are such packrats. Neither can just throw away things and let it be; they're always recycling parts of everyone around them. For me, that was the symbolism behind Xantcha and her heartstone.