Ok is our wiki wrong then? Because it clearly states that the Dwarves can through that portal to Ulgrotha and later that Baron Sengir sended troops through it and that they returned?!?
Whats right now, I'm honestly confused ?!?
I don't know if I'd say it's wrong (although it certainly wouldn't be the first time). You're thinking about it being one-way as in "things can only exit from it" or "things can only enter it". But instead, think of it is "things can only exit from it" AND/OR "things can only enter it." The dwarves came from their old plane, but they couldn't return once they found out what a crapsack world Ulgrotha was. Similarly, the Baron knows that if he goes through the portal, he's not going to be coming back (at least not that way).
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Not to mention they have some similar character traits... I know there are some differences (Bolas is power-hungry while Niv-Mizzet is just self-centered. Bolas is smart while Niv-Mizzet is a genius.), but there are also many parallels
This is the pretty classical definition of a dragon, either monstrous and bloodthirsty, or intelligent and power-hungry. Which is why we rarely see more than a handful of the latter in any one place at one time, regardless of the story.
Which, IMO, is the way planeswalkers need to go back to, but anyway.....
With a major vampire character(not to mention FAR too many vampire creatures) currently in the storyline, any sign of the Baron would be underwhelming at this point I think. I would like to see vampires rotate out of Standard before we get to see them again, much in the same way that there are 2-3 sets between every instance of Slivers in the game. Enough to push them out of rotation, but not out of memory.
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Oh heck, who am I kidding, at this point, I wouldn't mind, so long as it wasn't ANOTHER human walker.
100% agreed. They've started to branch with Sorin and Nissa; let's hope that continues.
What about Freyalise? Is she absolutely dead? My only sources are (eagerly devoured) MTGS Wiki pages; is there an alternate reality rift, a walking artifact version, a death cloud form, anything that even suggests Freyalise is alive? Cause she was cool.
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100% agreed. They've started to branch with Sorin and Nissa; let's hope that continues.
What about Freyalise? Is she absolutely dead? My only sources are (eagerly devoured) MTGS Wiki pages; is there an alternate reality rift, a walking artifact version, a death cloud form, anything that even suggests Freyalise is alive? Cause she was cool.
I dunno, I still consider Sorin a human. He may be a unique human, but he was still a human.
As for Freyalise, there is technically an alternate reality version of her whose fate is not known. She was only referenced once during Planar Chaos week and described as a black witch who somewhat usurped the role that Yawgmoth had minus the phyrexians (or perhaps not, there really isn't that much.)
For the record, I REALLY wish we could touch more on this sort of thing. I am a complete sucker for alternate realities. I'd be in heaven if we could expand on this alternate universe.
But as you guys said, more non human walkers please, maybe even not humanoid (1 head, 2 arms, 2 legs).
But probably won't happen as even Bolas is looking somewhat humanoid + wings.
What about Vedalken walkers? Or yes its strange but goblin walkers? Merfolk etc. etc.
I'd also like a Lich, although I'm not sure in Magic lore if those are strictly undeads or can be regarded the same as Sorin?
A Vedalken walker would make a good villian, or maybe a decent supporting character. Heck, shouldn't even be that hard to make up a good story for him.
Goblins would be alright, but I'd love a dwarf walker for red. Mostly just so we could have a dwarf on the scene rather than MORE goblin.
Ideally, I'd like it for them to bring back Sandruu.
As for lich, They are the one form of undead which might be able to hold onto their spark, but it'd probably be tied to their reliquary along with their soul, then again, there are so few liches in magic that we can't say how they work.
I'm still of the opinion that Sorin isn't a bitten vampire. He practices blood magic, so I think his vampirism is something he did to himself. I have no proof, but I prefer it over the idea that a walking corpse can still 'walk.
The problem is that I think WotC doesn't know where to really put dwarves to. I'd liked a high classic fantasy block with orcs (:symb:), dwarves (:symr:), elves (:symg:) and mere humans (:symw:). But I don't think they'd make black orcs. Dwarves would need an extra color somehow as they should be :symr::symw: most of the time. Orcs on the other hand would need to be with :symb:.
I think there was a bigger statement from WotC about that.
Matt Cavota was always a big proponent for the anti-dwarf movement, and his legacy still lives on. For the record, I support the rw dwarves. I think each of the color combos should have something akin to a icon/characteristic race (I've chosen to combine the two, because while I believe it could support one race, two is out of the question.)
Have RW Dwarves, RU Minotaurs, and so on and so forth... and my the NOGGLES NEVER SHOW THEIR UGLY ASSES AGAIN. Hate the freakin noggles...
About the Liches, I'd guess so if they are unliving but not undead (hope thats ok to say so) it would be the same case as with Sorin propably.
Also wasn't Lim-Dul in reality Mairsil the Pretender? Taking control over beings through his soul that was imprinted on some ring? If the person taken over had a spark he should be able to walk wouldnt he?
Well, we cannot say how it would be now, but we know for certain that wasn't how it was when
Jaya Ascended to walker
As it is, I think the blind eternities would still rip apart any hangers on.
I can think only of 3 versions how Sorin could be a Vampire and have a spark:
1. He made himself into a Vampire somepoint by using bloodmagic and thus corrupting your body
2. It's some "Blade" like event. His mother was bitten while she was pregnant with Sorin and shortly after she gave birth to him or something like that.
3. It is a ultra mega rare happening through which Sorin stayed "alive" although he is a Vampire. (Even more rare than a being possessing a spark)
I guess I'd also stick with point 1 :-D
Well, in regards to number 2, the vamps of Zendikar are still living beings. They seem to have something more akin to a magic virus than a curse, so very Blade-esque there.
Of course, I still like 1 best too.
I want Teferi to "Phase In" and be like , " Whats up ladies " . Hopefully with atleast a neowalker spark , take jace as a understudy and teach him the ways of awesome.
I would like to think that decades after the end of Future Sight, Venser met back up with Teferi and now they are smoking fatties on a phased-out island, waiting to return.
If I had to break the "dead" rule, I would wish that Ixidor returns as an illusion that has spent the time since his death skulking around the desert.
I would like to think that decades after the end of Future Sight, Venser met back up with Teferi and now they are smoking fatties on a phased-out island, waiting to return.
Or we could get a buddy cop scenario with those two. Sitcom anyone?
I would like to think that decades after the end of Future Sight, Venser met back up with Teferi and now they are smoking fatties on a phased-out island, waiting to return.
If I had to break the "dead" rule, I would wish that Ixidor returns as an illusion that has spent the time since his death skulking around the desert.
Whatever happened to Konda? I myself liked him in kamigawa block. The good baron sengir if he is still around might be a good story!!
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Konda and O-Kagachi were struck down by their daughters Michiko Konda and Kyodai, respectively. He was imprisoned by Kyodai in Jukai Forest, where he has presumably remained ever since.
Michiko and Kyodai made a cameo appearance in Future Sight. Telling Leshrac to GTFO of Kamigawa.
If I had to break the "dead" rule, I would wish that Ixidor returns as an illusion that has spent the time since his death skulking around the desert.
i think then he wouldn't be dead, more as a physical manifestation of the remnants of his power. I mean, he was a REALITY sculptor. maybe mana left over from his magic mixed with any illusions of his or an imprinted memory of him. then it could have gained a true form during The Mending when vast amounts of fresh new mana was returning and reconnecting with the land?
I want Teferi to "Phase In" and be like , " Whats up ladies " . Hopefully with atleast a neowalker spark , take jace as a understudy and teach him the ways of awesome.
Teferi really wasn't that awesome. Most of what he did was a little... obnoxious and he got his tail handed to him more often than not.
I will admit though, phasing Shiv and Zhalfir out and telling Urza to shove it was pretty bold.
His spark is GONE too. He is nothing more than a wise mage right now. Last we saw him he was heading down to what was left of Suq'ata to see if he could get a job.
I'm surprised to see you say the xenophobic ***** was 'cool', but that doesn't make you wrong. People have different opinions on which negative likenesses are cool and which are not. I prefer Urza's arrogance and obsession...
And yes, she's confirmed as 'dead' by WotC themselves. Still, I have a feeling that Nissa Revane is heavily inspired by Freyalise, so in a way, we might happen to see Freyalise's character again.
Haven't all the spirits disappeared from Ravnica after the Mending?
"Pretty bold"? This act is what makes me hate Teferi the most. Not opposing Urza (that's not that surprising), not phasing Zhalfir out (it's understandable he wanted to protect his homeland), but stealing Shiv from Urza. I just think he had absolutely no right to do that - he intentionally screwed Urza's plans which, even if that was not their major goal, included saving Dominaria. I knew Teferi was an imbecile and a coward from the previous novels, but Invasion also made him a traitor to his own world.
Well, i think it was pretty noble move of him.
He has worked on the Rig and knew that Urza was yust using the continent and would blow it up if he thought it would be a good idea, Shiv has provided loads of powerstones, precious metals and hard work, and now Urza want's these peoples lives aswell?
Honestly I appreciate Freyalise fighting for her home a lot more then Teferi Phasing his out. Didn't they all know about the Rathi Overlay? Did he honestly think that after the overlay that he Phased out home would just...fit? Sorry but he abandoned the rest of the plane to die which is a very cowardly thing to do in my eyes.
Well, i think it was pretty noble move of him.
He has worked on the Rig and knew that Urza was yust using the continent and would blow it up if he thought it would be a good idea, Shiv has provided loads of powerstones en precious metals and hard work, and now Urza want's these peoples lives aswell?
I understand his decision.
Exactly. And what right did he have to it? He kicked a dragon child's ass and then bullied his way into using the rig in the first place.
He may have solved their problem with goblins, but that doesn't change the fact that it belonged to the Viashino and to a lesser degree the Ghitu and goblins.
Teferi did it because Jhoira asked him to save HER home as well. She had the strongest claim to Shiv of any of them.
I want Teferi to "Phase In" and be like , " Whats up ladies " . Hopefully with atleast a neowalker spark , take jace as a understudy and teach him the ways of awesome.
...yes......YES......that would be amazing since those are my favourite characters!!
I never said I didn't understand his decision - in fact I do. All I say is that what he did was classifiable as treason. He basically doomed the rest of Dominaria (or at least made it's survival even more unsure by screwing an another of Urza's 'master plans') to save the one bit. I'm quite sure the denizens of Shiv and Zhalfir were thankful for that, but the rest of Dominarians had a very good reason to hate him...
You mean Urza? Well, in his case it's not about right, but about purpose IMO. He was the one who grabbed the reins and became the commander of Dominarian forces, and he was the person the plane's survival relied on. Screwing his plans equals harming the Coalition, thus helping Phyrexia. Technically, it's a betrayal, isn't it? I don't say it makes Teferi a bad guy, after all Urza was a sort of betrayer as well.
Well, i don't really see it as treason.
Urza has used these people for centuries to fullfill his needs, generations have contributed to Urza's schemes and plans.
They have done there share of work for centuries, let those who want to ight stay and leave the rest alone, they have done there share before any would be soldier ever lifted a sword in his Coalition.
It's not a betrayal, they have already done there part, Urza was wanting to much of these people, and Teferi and Jhoira took it upon them to give these people the fruits of there centuries worth of labor.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
I haven't read the book(s) but it would have looked better I guess if Jhoira and Teferi had stayed and helped only phasing the countries away?
At least it would've looked as if they really only cared about the people and the land, not just their own hides.
They have been with Urza since the first Acedemy.
After centuries of noble work in the name of a man who is willing to sacrifice generations worth of lives to fued his own personal vendetta.
Enough is enough, they have done enough, they have paid enough for there trust in Urza.
Look at Barrin, he give his whole familie to the man, and what did he get?
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
They have been with Urza since the first Acedemy.
After centuries of noble work in the name of a man who is willing to sacrifice generations worth of lives to fued his own personal vendetta.
Enough is enough, they have done enough, they have paid enough for there trust in Urza.
Look at Barrin, he give his whole familie to the man, and what did he get?
News that his daughter died WEEKS after the event.
Urza wasn't some grand hero. He was as bad as the phyrexians.
It was one thing for those of Tolaria to fight. They were doing it with full knowledge of what they were getting into. At least those who weren't CHILDREN (who died for him anyways because he didn't care about people.)
When Urza was making his grand plans, did he bother to ask the cooperation of anybody? Did he share his plans for Shiv and Teferi before he just showed up and TOLD them they were going to fight? No. No, he didn't. He planned and expected people to do what he said. Why? So he could conquer Phyrexia. Why does that sound familiar? He grew an army to fight for him. It all seems SO familiar. Noble goals were nothing to him. Dominaria wasn't some great jewel he wanted to save. It was his battleground.
Neither side deserved to win. The old quote holds true. "When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you."
I see your points really, but I don't understand why they "retreated" so early. I mean as such powerful individuals they have some duties especially knowing that there will be an invasion (they knew didnt they?). They could have phased the innocents away and then fight.
I mean they knew Urza, so why not fight but always keep an eye on Urza. They probably knew that Urza solely wanted to use them so they were able to intervene when Urza was going to far and disappear then.
I mean not to make Urza's goals and intentions to rise but he ultimativly stopped Yawgmoth and his Invasion didn't he? For which purpose, that's a different story.
So I think the 2 other fullpowered walker could have helped and saved some lives, too and being always aware that Urza could sacrifice them aswell.
But if you know it, you don't rely on Urza so much anymore and don't do reckless stuff where he would the only one being able to help you in the end.
Jhoira wasn't a walker. She was just a girl with a vast amount of experience. She was an artificer that was more brilliant than Urza. Of course, Urza had 2000 more years experience and a brain unfettered by mortality, so he also had an unfair advantage.
Look at what happened to those who went along with Urza and "watched him." Daria died horribly because Urza wanted her to, so that he could kill Tevesh Szat without arguments. When he killed him to power the soul bombs, everyone was aghast, and Urza killed Taysir for questioning him.
None of them had planned anything for the Invasion. Urza came to THEM and begged THEM. The only other person who was planning for the invasion WAS Teferi. And his country destroyed their invasion without Urza's help. They weren't laid to waste like Benalia was because they didn't play by Urza's rules.
Urza's plan was to sacrifice every nation if need be, because the people weren't important. He was fighting for LAND.
@Skater- I'd say Teferi got out of it pretty well.
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I don't know if I'd say it's wrong (although it certainly wouldn't be the first time). You're thinking about it being one-way as in "things can only exit from it" or "things can only enter it". But instead, think of it is "things can only exit from it" AND/OR "things can only enter it." The dwarves came from their old plane, but they couldn't return once they found out what a crapsack world Ulgrotha was. Similarly, the Baron knows that if he goes through the portal, he's not going to be coming back (at least not that way).
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This is the pretty classical definition of a dragon, either monstrous and bloodthirsty, or intelligent and power-hungry. Which is why we rarely see more than a handful of the latter in any one place at one time, regardless of the story.
Which, IMO, is the way planeswalkers need to go back to, but anyway.....
With a major vampire character(not to mention FAR too many vampire creatures) currently in the storyline, any sign of the Baron would be underwhelming at this point I think. I would like to see vampires rotate out of Standard before we get to see them again, much in the same way that there are 2-3 sets between every instance of Slivers in the game. Enough to push them out of rotation, but not out of memory.
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100% agreed. They've started to branch with Sorin and Nissa; let's hope that continues.
What about Freyalise? Is she absolutely dead? My only sources are (eagerly devoured) MTGS Wiki pages; is there an alternate reality rift, a walking artifact version, a death cloud form, anything that even suggests Freyalise is alive? Cause she was cool.
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I dunno, I still consider Sorin a human. He may be a unique human, but he was still a human.
As for Freyalise, there is technically an alternate reality version of her whose fate is not known. She was only referenced once during Planar Chaos week and described as a black witch who somewhat usurped the role that Yawgmoth had minus the phyrexians (or perhaps not, there really isn't that much.)
http://www.wizards.com/MagiC/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mc79
For the record, I REALLY wish we could touch more on this sort of thing. I am a complete sucker for alternate realities. I'd be in heaven if we could expand on this alternate universe.
A Vedalken walker would make a good villian, or maybe a decent supporting character. Heck, shouldn't even be that hard to make up a good story for him.
Goblins would be alright, but I'd love a dwarf walker for red. Mostly just so we could have a dwarf on the scene rather than MORE goblin.
Ideally, I'd like it for them to bring back Sandruu.
As for lich, They are the one form of undead which might be able to hold onto their spark, but it'd probably be tied to their reliquary along with their soul, then again, there are so few liches in magic that we can't say how they work.
I'm still of the opinion that Sorin isn't a bitten vampire. He practices blood magic, so I think his vampirism is something he did to himself. I have no proof, but I prefer it over the idea that a walking corpse can still 'walk.
Matt Cavota was always a big proponent for the anti-dwarf movement, and his legacy still lives on. For the record, I support the rw dwarves. I think each of the color combos should have something akin to a icon/characteristic race (I've chosen to combine the two, because while I believe it could support one race, two is out of the question.)
Have RW Dwarves, RU Minotaurs, and so on and so forth... and my the NOGGLES NEVER SHOW THEIR UGLY ASSES AGAIN. Hate the freakin noggles...
Well, we cannot say how it would be now, but we know for certain that wasn't how it was when
Well, in regards to number 2, the vamps of Zendikar are still living beings. They seem to have something more akin to a magic virus than a curse, so very Blade-esque there.
Of course, I still like 1 best too.
If I had to break the "dead" rule, I would wish that Ixidor returns as an illusion that has spent the time since his death skulking around the desert.
Or we could get a buddy cop scenario with those two. Sitcom anyone?
I like that smoking fatties idea.
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i think then he wouldn't be dead, more as a physical manifestation of the remnants of his power. I mean, he was a REALITY sculptor. maybe mana left over from his magic mixed with any illusions of his or an imprinted memory of him. then it could have gained a true form during The Mending when vast amounts of fresh new mana was returning and reconnecting with the land?
Teferi really wasn't that awesome. Most of what he did was a little... obnoxious and he got his tail handed to him more often than not.
I will admit though, phasing Shiv and Zhalfir out and telling Urza to shove it was pretty bold.
His spark is GONE too. He is nothing more than a wise mage right now. Last we saw him he was heading down to what was left of Suq'ata to see if he could get a job.
Well, i think it was pretty noble move of him.
He has worked on the Rig and knew that Urza was yust using the continent and would blow it up if he thought it would be a good idea, Shiv has provided loads of powerstones, precious metals and hard work, and now Urza want's these peoples lives aswell?
I understand his decision.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Exactly. And what right did he have to it? He kicked a dragon child's ass and then bullied his way into using the rig in the first place.
He may have solved their problem with goblins, but that doesn't change the fact that it belonged to the Viashino and to a lesser degree the Ghitu and goblins.
Teferi did it because Jhoira asked him to save HER home as well. She had the strongest claim to Shiv of any of them.
...yes......YES......that would be amazing since those are my favourite characters!!
Well, i don't really see it as treason.
Urza has used these people for centuries to fullfill his needs, generations have contributed to Urza's schemes and plans.
They have done there share of work for centuries, let those who want to ight stay and leave the rest alone, they have done there share before any would be soldier ever lifted a sword in his Coalition.
It's not a betrayal, they have already done there part, Urza was wanting to much of these people, and Teferi and Jhoira took it upon them to give these people the fruits of there centuries worth of labor.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
They have been with Urza since the first Acedemy.
After centuries of noble work in the name of a man who is willing to sacrifice generations worth of lives to fued his own personal vendetta.
Enough is enough, they have done enough, they have paid enough for there trust in Urza.
Look at Barrin, he give his whole familie to the man, and what did he get?
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
News that his daughter died WEEKS after the event.
Urza wasn't some grand hero. He was as bad as the phyrexians.
It was one thing for those of Tolaria to fight. They were doing it with full knowledge of what they were getting into. At least those who weren't CHILDREN (who died for him anyways because he didn't care about people.)
When Urza was making his grand plans, did he bother to ask the cooperation of anybody? Did he share his plans for Shiv and Teferi before he just showed up and TOLD them they were going to fight? No. No, he didn't. He planned and expected people to do what he said. Why? So he could conquer Phyrexia. Why does that sound familiar? He grew an army to fight for him. It all seems SO familiar. Noble goals were nothing to him. Dominaria wasn't some great jewel he wanted to save. It was his battleground.
Neither side deserved to win. The old quote holds true. "When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you."
Jhoira wasn't a walker. She was just a girl with a vast amount of experience. She was an artificer that was more brilliant than Urza. Of course, Urza had 2000 more years experience and a brain unfettered by mortality, so he also had an unfair advantage.
Look at what happened to those who went along with Urza and "watched him." Daria died horribly because Urza wanted her to, so that he could kill Tevesh Szat without arguments. When he killed him to power the soul bombs, everyone was aghast, and Urza killed Taysir for questioning him.
None of them had planned anything for the Invasion. Urza came to THEM and begged THEM. The only other person who was planning for the invasion WAS Teferi. And his country destroyed their invasion without Urza's help. They weren't laid to waste like Benalia was because they didn't play by Urza's rules.
Urza's plan was to sacrifice every nation if need be, because the people weren't important. He was fighting for LAND.
@Skater- I'd say Teferi got out of it pretty well.