Wll, we don't know this for sure, but yes, it's a generally accepted theory. However, at least one of the Sparks was sacrificed when Karn closed the Howling Rift at Tolaria in Planar Chaos, so now there is max. one Spark left inside him.
Actually due to Karn's unique nature, it isn't a requisite that he gave up a spark to close a rift. He just poured mana into it until the rift couldn't take anymore.
Given the fact that Karn is unqiue in every way, we have no idea how his ploy compared to the biological walkers. After all, he wasn't a walker because of a spark, but because he had an actual ENGINE in him that allowed him to traverse the multiverse.
Actually due to Karn's unique nature, it isn't a requisite that he gave up a spark to close a rift. He just poured mana into it until the rift couldn't take anymore.
Given the fact that Karn is unqiue in every way, we have no idea how his ploy compared to the biological walkers. After all, he wasn't a walker because of a spark, but because he had an actual ENGINE in him that allowed him to traverse the multiverse.
So does that mean that in the occurence that he goes back to the storyline he and Bolas would be the strongest remaining known Old Walkers?. Good thing Karn does not age and stuff.
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So does that mean that in the occurence that he goes back to the storyline he and Bolas would be the strongest remaining known Old Walkers?. Good thing Karn does not age and stuff.
More or less. There are a lot of questions about who the strongest walker is and has been.
During pre-rev Taysir took that honor, being a composite of five of himself.
When Urza was on the scene he took the title.
Karn, being a collection of artifacts and what was left of Urza beat out Urza in sheer power.
However, ever since they brought Bolas back, they've declared that he is THE oldest and strongest being that has ever been called a walker.
More or less. There are a lot of questions about who the strongest walker is and has been.
During pre-rev Taysir took that honor, being a composite of five of himself.
When Urza was on the scene he took the title.
Karn, being a collection of artifacts and what was left of Urza beat out Urza in sheer power.
However, ever since they brought Bolas back, they've declared that he is THE oldest and strongest being that has ever been called a walker.
Well to be fair, he was taken out of the picture during Urza/Karn's time. So during that time, he wasn't the strongest or most powerful.
I don't know, we very rarely get to see Bolas do anything... powerful. It's hard to gage his abilities. But i do know this...
Bolas fought a Leviathan for so long that it tore a hole in the mulitverse. of course then again, Karona, Yawgmoth, Urza, and Teferi all tore holes in the multiverse as well. So again, its hard to gage power.
Well to be fair, he was taken out of the picture during Urza/Karn's time. So during that time, he wasn't the strongest or most powerful.
I don't know, we very rarely get to see Bolas do anything... powerful. It's hard to gage his abilities. But i do know this...
Bolas fought a Leviathan for so long that it tore a hole in the mulitverse. of course then again, Karona, Yawgmoth, Urza, and Teferi all tore holes in the multiverse as well. So again, its hard to gage power.
It took him a month to fight and it shattered probably about 200 miles worth of land. He then gorged himself on his opponent's power.... so... yeah.
Anyways, part of Bolas being taken out during Urza's time (it was specifically Urza's) is that he wasn't really significant to anybody but Scott McGough at the time. The entire Madara story was pretty much absolutely self contained, so Wizards' probably didn't care what Scott did with him.
Wizards say he did. In the Future Sight Player's Guide there is a table featuring all the major Rifts. It tells us where each of them was, what caused it, which planeswalker closed it and how, and what effect the act had on the given 'walker. About the Tolarian Rift, it says this:
Hrm, with that in mind, we still have two things to consider.
1) He had Glacian's spark or
2) He had NO spark at that point, and the mending didn't have any impact on him because there was nothing but machine to impact.
I thoguht that Glacian's spark was gone and not in the stones? I thought his power was basically eaten by the stones and they had the power of a walker but did NOT have a spark? Every time we have discussed this in the past(if Glacian's spark is in the Might/Wakstone) it was pretty much agreed upon everyone that Urza only had one spark, not two?
At any rate, Karn doesn't really need a spark anymore. After the Mending, does the spark actually give you anything other than the ability to planeswalk? Which Karn doesn't need since he has the Weatherlight's 'walking engine, and he can already manipulate magic just fine.
It gives you a higher aptitude towards using magic (comparable, perhaps, to the aptitude of archmages like Barrin or Jodah, but probably not that high). It also grants faster comprehension of languages, the ability to decipher them much faster than non-'walkers. And of course the ability to recognize other 'walkers (though not as easy as it was before the Meandering).
I kind of wish they'd add to this the ability to be drawn towards other 'walkers when first arriving on another plane. It would provide an explanation to the ever-present "why do they always run into each other?" dilemma.
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I kind of wish they'd add to this the ability to be drawn towards other 'walkers when first arriving on another plane. It would provide an explanation to the ever-present "why do they always run into each other?" dilemma.
without the ever present "they just do" explanation.
If you feel like you have to constantly justify yourself, you might as well just toss in an escape clause right?
Pretty much. It'd be a stupid sub-plot device, but at least it would be a stupid sub-plot device. Now it's like if Chuck Norris and Bruce Willis arrive in Africa, they're going to run into each other.
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Lol Tezzeret, Yawgmoth thought Gaia was Rebbecc. It is pretty obvious being "alive" for so long and not being a walker drove him insane. Plus he thoerized they would make him a walker before he became the ineffable. It was just a theory, not canon proof the stones had a spark in them. To me he wanted anything that could possibly make him into a walker, including the bodies of Planeswalkers and we know Dralnu(sp?) and Leshrac never provided that for him. The stones just drained the raw mana potential form gLacian and not his spark, at least until creative decides to change it.
I have to agree. Only one sentient being in a million has a Spark, and only one Spark-bearer out of a million manages to ascend. How high is a planeswalker's chance to meet an another of his/her kind? I still believe they should have explained it somehow - you know, something like "each planeswalker is able to feel the Spark within other beings". Pre-Mending 'walkers could recognize it, why can't these do the same?
Even premending the chances are slim....
1:1,000,000,000,000 ascend. Taking into account that the Earth only has 6,000,000,000 people on it. It would take 166.6666 Earths before you can be pretty sure a planeswalker will be born in a generation. Or it would take 166.6666 generations of earth for a planeswalker to be born.
Now factor in the fact that many planes are smaller than earth... and you start to see the problems.
That's why you shouldn't get into numbers, it isn't going to make sense anyway you slice it. the chances of two planeswalkers meeting at one point in time is unlikely, especially now that they have a normal life span.
Think about this... in order for Alara to stastically have two planeswalkers born on it in one generation, it would need to have had a population of about 2,000,000,000,000 or about 400 billion per shard. (An insane number)
The problem is that no one knows that for sure. Yawgmoth wanted the Mightstone and Weakstone because he believed they'd make him a planeswalker, so unless he was simply wrong, there must have been a Spark inside them.
Well, sort of. I mean, he intentionally put a very large powerstone into Glacian, but it was more to keep him perpetually sick. I don't think Yawgmoth ever realized Glacian had the potential to become a planeswalker. 5,000 years later he didn't really care about the stones--other than wanting them out of the way so he could return to Dominaria.
I have to agree. Only one sentient being in a million has a Spark, and only one Spark-bearer out of a million manages to ascend. How high is a planeswalker's chance to meet an another of his/her kind? I still believe they should have explained it somehow - you know, something like "each planeswalker is able to feel the Spark within other beings". Pre-Mending 'walkers could recognize it, why can't these do the same?
I think it's still in effect these days, but much less so than it used to be. I believe (damnit, I've read Agents of Artifice three times, I should remember this stuff better) that Jace says something about bradywalkers being able to sense other bradywalkers. But that still wouldn't explain why they always run into each other. They should throw a clause into the mix stating that they are likely to appear next to each other because of "the destiny the multiverse holds in store for them" or something.
Edit: OOOOH! Or how about they always run into each other because it's all teh part of Bolas's plan!!!1
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1:1,000,000,000,000 ascend. Taking into account that the Earth only has 6,000,000,000 people on it. It would take 166.6666 Earths before you can be pretty sure a planeswalker will be born in a generation. Or it would take 166.6666 generations of earth for a planeswalker to be born.
Now factor in the fact that many planes are smaller than earth... and you start to see the problems.
That's why you shouldn't get into numbers, it isn't going to make sense anyway you slice it. the chances of two planeswalkers meeting at one point in time is unlikely, especially now that they have a normal life span.
Think about this... in order for Alara to stastically have two planeswalkers born on it in one generation, it would need to have had a population of about 2,000,000,000,000 or about 400 billion per shard. (An insane number)
The inverse of a small plane works too. There are planes larger than earth, like Dominaria for example. Of course, the chances of Bo Levar and Urza both being walkers and ascending in the SAME MOMENT within 100 miles of each other. What are the chances huh? It happened though.
@Eid: Jace said that he could sense other walkers while they were in the blind eternities. They can see each other in a symbolic abstraction. However, once on the plane, it becomes less obvious who is a walker.
It's also a good point to remember that, there are many many more 'walkers who we don't see. Your average planeswalker might run into one, two other walkers at most during his/her lifetime. But they don't get screentime, because they're less interesting. The ones we see are the ones who, by circumstances, have a much higher-than-average amount of contact with others of their kind, which directly increases the amount of drama available.
Also, there are certainly places in the multiverse that are more likely to attract planeswalkers to them, which makes meeting others much easier. Zendikar, apparently, gets a much higher-than-average amount of planeswalker traffic, for example. Enough that there seem to be a good number of normal people on the plane who are aware of their existence, and make a business out of providing them with guides.
1:1,000,000,000,000 ascend. Taking into account that the Earth only has 6,000,000,000 people on it. It would take 166.6666 Earths before you can be pretty sure a planeswalker will be born in a generation. Or it would take 166.6666 generations of earth for a planeswalker to be born.
Now factor in the fact that many planes are smaller than earth... and you start to see the problems.
That's why you shouldn't get into numbers, it isn't going to make sense anyway you slice it. the chances of two planeswalkers meeting at one point in time is unlikely, especially now that they have a normal life span.
Think about this... in order for Alara to stastically have two planeswalkers born on it in one generation, it would need to have had a population of about 2,000,000,000,000 or about 400 billion per shard. (An insane number)
Did it ever occur to you that these big catastrophes might be happening naturally and are responsible for creating the sparks? Crazy theory but the former planeswalkers created multiversal problems, fixed by them at the mending. However, things are still going to go wrong in the multiverse thus it creates the only beings capable of fixing those problems: the planeswalkers. Hence the reason Nissa is from Zendikar, and we may as we explore origin stories see Jace, Sarkhan, Chandra and Elspeth's origins(or planes there of) and the walkers averting crises.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
That's... actually such an interesting idea that I decided to post something intelligent instead of just spamming these boards with overly complex essays on Edward Hopper. (I mean, I suspect that someone will tick me off within three posts and I'll stomp angrily back to the Wizards forums, but whatever.)
This isn't too crazy of a thought. It seems like a lot of Planeswalkers tend to show up around one another, and at one another's ascensions, than is statistically reasonable.
Urza ascended in a cataclysmic event that sparked Bo Levar as well... (and Freyalise? I can't remember). Shortly afterward Tevish Szat ascended as well, as a direct cause of the damage Urza did.
Venser and Radha showed up on Dominaria right about the same time, as a "new form of Planeswalker"
Ajani and Tezzeret both showed up on Alara at roughly the same time (in broad terms, you know) at just the point where Bolas was beginning his machinations. Elspeth also just happened to show up there at the same time, and Sarkhan Vol was drawn there by Bolas.
Nissa Revane shows up right around the time that Chandra and Jace show up, and their meeting (and the machinations of Tezzeret, Bolas, and Sarkhan Vol) lead eventually to the awakening of the Eldrazi.
Just looking at this brief list, it seems like maybe the idea of a "multiversal destiny" isn't such a dramatic throwaway line after all... maybe there literally is something in the nature of all 'walkers, whether Planes- or Neo- that is inexorably tied in inexplicable ways to cataclism and change.
Perhaps they are the way of making sure that the multiverse stays in a constant flux so that all planes don't end up like Equilor, ancient and dying.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Edit: OOOOH! Or how about they always run into each other because it's all teh part of Bolas's plan!!!1
It actually was "TEH PLAN!!!!" funny enough.
Bolas took over or created the Consortium. He found Alara(how ocnveniant) and began TEH PLAN on alara and in the process found Tezzeret. Tezzeret rebeled and took over the ocnsortium(which still doesn't make sense to me, Bolas at the time should have had the strength to birch slap Tez into submission). Since Tez owned the consortium he ran into Jace, who in turn runs into Chandra because the consortium was interested int he scroll. Liliana ran into Jace directly because of Bolas and afte rLiliana met Jace she wanted to be free of her demons, thus indirectly because of Bolas when Liliana went to get the veil she ran into Garruk.
While the plan was in action Bolas met Vol because Vol wanted to worship him. Bolas sent Vol out to walk about Jund and so happened he met Ajani. Vol later meets Chandra because somehow (TEH PLAN!!) Bolas found out about Chandra. he then runs into Jace because Jace was looking for Chandra.
Thus, technically, they all ran into eachothe rbecause of TEH PLAN! The only ones that were not affected by TEH PLAN (Elspeth) never met another walker yet in the storyline. Nizza and Sorin will run into eachother because of TEH ELDRAZI. Right now they are the only plausable "Walker meet up" because Nissa lives on Zendikar and because of Sorin's past involving the Eldrazi, which I bet is a part of Bolas' TEH PLAN!
Did it ever occur to you that these big catastrophes might be happening naturally and are responsible for creating the sparks? Crazy theory but the former planeswalkers created multiversal problems, fixed by them at the mending. However, things are still going to go wrong in the multiverse thus it creates the only beings capable of fixing those problems: the planeswalkers. Hence the reason Nissa is from Zendikar, and we may as we explore origin stories see Jace, Sarkhan, Chandra and Elspeth's origins(or planes there of) and the walkers averting crises.
Well we don't know how sparks work, so i guess its possible, of course that means that there has to be dystany and there has to be alot of crazy stuff going on.
Though the fact that both Radha and Venser were both on Dominaria at the same time isn't weird... on earth there'd be 6000 people with sparks. Finding two people in vastly diffrent areas of the world with sparks isn't weird at all. And recall that Venser's spark acended, but Radha's didn't. So it all works out, nothing wrong here.
So how do you propose sparks work? That gearing up for an event the multiverse seeds the plane with a bunch of sparks?
Bolas took over or created the Consortium. He found Alara(how ocnveniant) and began TEH PLAN on alara and in the process found Tezzeret. Tezzeret rebeled and took over the ocnsortium(which still doesn't make sense to me, Bolas at the time should have had the strength to birch slap Tez into submission). Since Tez owned the consortium he ran into Jace, who in turn runs into Chandra because the consortium was interested int he scroll. Liliana ran into Jace directly because of Bolas and afte rLiliana met Jace she wanted to be free of her demons, thus indirectly because of Bolas when Liliana went to get the veil she ran into Garruk.
While the plan was in action Bolas met Vol because Vol wanted to worship him. Bolas sent Vol out to walk about Jund and so happened he met Ajani. Vol later meets Chandra because somehow (TEH PLAN!!) Bolas found out about Chandra. he then runs into Jace because Jace was looking for Chandra.
Thus, technically, they all ran into eachothe rbecause of TEH PLAN! The only ones that were not affected by TEH PLAN (Elspeth) never met another walker yet in the storyline. Nizza and Sorin will run into eachother because of TEH ELDRAZI. Right now they are the only plausable "Walker meet up" because Nissa lives on Zendikar and because of Sorin's past involving the Eldrazi, which I bet is a part of Bolas' TEH PLAN!
Hmm. When you put it that way, yes, in this case it really seems to all be part of Bolas's plan. We know that he wants to return all sparks (not just his own) back to the way they used to be. To do that he'll (for some reason) need bradywalkers. He'll still end up eating them before it's all over with. I mean, it's Bolas.
@ Keeper - Minor gripe: Szat ascended before Urza. And I very much like your theory.
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i thought they both had sparks? glacians was absorbed in the powerstones and urza's was later ignited by the joining of them.
Actually due to Karn's unique nature, it isn't a requisite that he gave up a spark to close a rift. He just poured mana into it until the rift couldn't take anymore.
Given the fact that Karn is unqiue in every way, we have no idea how his ploy compared to the biological walkers. After all, he wasn't a walker because of a spark, but because he had an actual ENGINE in him that allowed him to traverse the multiverse.
So does that mean that in the occurence that he goes back to the storyline he and Bolas would be the strongest remaining known Old Walkers?. Good thing Karn does not age and stuff.
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More or less. There are a lot of questions about who the strongest walker is and has been.
During pre-rev Taysir took that honor, being a composite of five of himself.
When Urza was on the scene he took the title.
Karn, being a collection of artifacts and what was left of Urza beat out Urza in sheer power.
However, ever since they brought Bolas back, they've declared that he is THE oldest and strongest being that has ever been called a walker.
Well to be fair, he was taken out of the picture during Urza/Karn's time. So during that time, he wasn't the strongest or most powerful.
I don't know, we very rarely get to see Bolas do anything... powerful. It's hard to gage his abilities. But i do know this...
Bolas fought a Leviathan for so long that it tore a hole in the mulitverse. of course then again, Karona, Yawgmoth, Urza, and Teferi all tore holes in the multiverse as well. So again, its hard to gage power.
It took him a month to fight and it shattered probably about 200 miles worth of land. He then gorged himself on his opponent's power.... so... yeah.
Anyways, part of Bolas being taken out during Urza's time (it was specifically Urza's) is that he wasn't really significant to anybody but Scott McGough at the time. The entire Madara story was pretty much absolutely self contained, so Wizards' probably didn't care what Scott did with him.
Hrm, with that in mind, we still have two things to consider.
1) He had Glacian's spark or
2) He had NO spark at that point, and the mending didn't have any impact on him because there was nothing but machine to impact.
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I kind of wish they'd add to this the ability to be drawn towards other 'walkers when first arriving on another plane. It would provide an explanation to the ever-present "why do they always run into each other?" dilemma.
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without the ever present "they just do" explanation.
If you feel like you have to constantly justify yourself, you might as well just toss in an escape clause right?
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Even premending the chances are slim....
1:1,000,000,000,000 ascend. Taking into account that the Earth only has 6,000,000,000 people on it. It would take 166.6666 Earths before you can be pretty sure a planeswalker will be born in a generation. Or it would take 166.6666 generations of earth for a planeswalker to be born.
Now factor in the fact that many planes are smaller than earth... and you start to see the problems.
That's why you shouldn't get into numbers, it isn't going to make sense anyway you slice it. the chances of two planeswalkers meeting at one point in time is unlikely, especially now that they have a normal life span.
Think about this... in order for Alara to stastically have two planeswalkers born on it in one generation, it would need to have had a population of about 2,000,000,000,000 or about 400 billion per shard. (An insane number)
Well, sort of. I mean, he intentionally put a very large powerstone into Glacian, but it was more to keep him perpetually sick. I don't think Yawgmoth ever realized Glacian had the potential to become a planeswalker. 5,000 years later he didn't really care about the stones--other than wanting them out of the way so he could return to Dominaria.
I think it's still in effect these days, but much less so than it used to be. I believe (damnit, I've read Agents of Artifice three times, I should remember this stuff better) that Jace says something about bradywalkers being able to sense other bradywalkers. But that still wouldn't explain why they always run into each other. They should throw a clause into the mix stating that they are likely to appear next to each other because of "the destiny the multiverse holds in store for them" or something.
Edit: OOOOH! Or how about they always run into each other because it's all teh part of Bolas's plan!!!1
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The inverse of a small plane works too. There are planes larger than earth, like Dominaria for example. Of course, the chances of Bo Levar and Urza both being walkers and ascending in the SAME MOMENT within 100 miles of each other. What are the chances huh? It happened though.
@Eid: Jace said that he could sense other walkers while they were in the blind eternities. They can see each other in a symbolic abstraction. However, once on the plane, it becomes less obvious who is a walker.
Also, there are certainly places in the multiverse that are more likely to attract planeswalkers to them, which makes meeting others much easier. Zendikar, apparently, gets a much higher-than-average amount of planeswalker traffic, for example. Enough that there seem to be a good number of normal people on the plane who are aware of their existence, and make a business out of providing them with guides.
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Did it ever occur to you that these big catastrophes might be happening naturally and are responsible for creating the sparks? Crazy theory but the former planeswalkers created multiversal problems, fixed by them at the mending. However, things are still going to go wrong in the multiverse thus it creates the only beings capable of fixing those problems: the planeswalkers. Hence the reason Nissa is from Zendikar, and we may as we explore origin stories see Jace, Sarkhan, Chandra and Elspeth's origins(or planes there of) and the walkers averting crises.
This isn't too crazy of a thought. It seems like a lot of Planeswalkers tend to show up around one another, and at one another's ascensions, than is statistically reasonable.
Just looking at this brief list, it seems like maybe the idea of a "multiversal destiny" isn't such a dramatic throwaway line after all... maybe there literally is something in the nature of all 'walkers, whether Planes- or Neo- that is inexorably tied in inexplicable ways to cataclism and change.
Perhaps they are the way of making sure that the multiverse stays in a constant flux so that all planes don't end up like Equilor, ancient and dying.
Maybe the Multiverse is having epileptic fits...
FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
Until today I'd never heard of the series, worth reading?
Bolas took over or created the Consortium. He found Alara(how ocnveniant) and began TEH PLAN on alara and in the process found Tezzeret. Tezzeret rebeled and took over the ocnsortium(which still doesn't make sense to me, Bolas at the time should have had the strength to birch slap Tez into submission). Since Tez owned the consortium he ran into Jace, who in turn runs into Chandra because the consortium was interested int he scroll. Liliana ran into Jace directly because of Bolas and afte rLiliana met Jace she wanted to be free of her demons, thus indirectly because of Bolas when Liliana went to get the veil she ran into Garruk.
While the plan was in action Bolas met Vol because Vol wanted to worship him. Bolas sent Vol out to walk about Jund and so happened he met Ajani. Vol later meets Chandra because somehow (TEH PLAN!!) Bolas found out about Chandra. he then runs into Jace because Jace was looking for Chandra.
Thus, technically, they all ran into eachothe rbecause of TEH PLAN! The only ones that were not affected by TEH PLAN (Elspeth) never met another walker yet in the storyline. Nizza and Sorin will run into eachother because of TEH ELDRAZI. Right now they are the only plausable "Walker meet up" because Nissa lives on Zendikar and because of Sorin's past involving the Eldrazi, which I bet is a part of Bolas' TEH PLAN!
Well we don't know how sparks work, so i guess its possible, of course that means that there has to be dystany and there has to be alot of crazy stuff going on.
Though the fact that both Radha and Venser were both on Dominaria at the same time isn't weird... on earth there'd be 6000 people with sparks. Finding two people in vastly diffrent areas of the world with sparks isn't weird at all. And recall that Venser's spark acended, but Radha's didn't. So it all works out, nothing wrong here.
So how do you propose sparks work? That gearing up for an event the multiverse seeds the plane with a bunch of sparks?
Hmm. When you put it that way, yes, in this case it really seems to all be part of Bolas's plan. We know that he wants to return all sparks (not just his own) back to the way they used to be. To do that he'll (for some reason) need bradywalkers. He'll still end up eating them before it's all over with. I mean, it's Bolas.
@ Keeper - Minor gripe: Szat ascended before Urza. And I very much like your theory.
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It's not bad at all. It's a very easy read, meant towards young teens, but is very entertaining.