I was thinking about this the other day. Despite being a character, Sorin doesn't seem to be evil per se. I mean, he's one of the jailers, they sealed away the Eldrazi to prevent some awful disaster, that's not bad, now is it? Or, have there been discussions about the intentions of him and the other jailers, that they are in fact evil? It just seems odd that we get a character famous for saving the multiverse from some sort of massive threat.
I have the impression that he'll be hard to classify as "good" or "evil". I can't imagine him as the type of character that goes "BWAHAHA I'M EVIL!", but he also doesn't look like the nicest person in the world.
What I expect, from the little we know so far, is that he has good objectives, but he's perfectly fine with using evil means to achieve those objectives.
(I dislike it when things can easily be classified as "good" or "evil" in literature)
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Much like zkornz, I don't believe he's good or evil. Classically, I would probably categorize him as chaotic neutral. From his profile, he is a bit of a bon vivant and certainly hedonistic (perhaps to a fault) so I imagine him to be quite charming but incredibly self serving.
However, self serving doesn't necesarilly preclude service to the greater interests of the multiverse. Black isn't required to be evil. In fact, there have arguably been more white based villians than black.
I can think of two prime examples of non-evil black characters off the top of my head. Toshihiro Umezawa (and by extension Tetsuo) and Jarad of the Golgari. Black, but not by essence evil.
I have the impression that he'll be hard to classify as "good" or "evil". I can't imagine him as the type of character that goes "BWAHAHA I'M EVIL!", but he also doesn't look like the nicest person in the world.
What I expect, from the little we know so far, is that he has good objectives, but he's perfectly fine with using evil means to achieve those objectives.
(I dislike it when things can easily be classified as "good" or "evil" in literature)
Are you honestly telling me you wouldn't want to see Sorin swirl his glass of "wine" and do the hair flippy thing and then say, "BWAHAHA I'm EVIL. How evil? I drink the blood of puppies!!!" like a certain someone from Justice for All?
Though you and everyone else have a point. Self-serving (his initial appearance, we'll know more after In the Teeth of Akoum comes out) does not necessarily mean evil.
His little background-blurb on the magicthegathering site characterizes him as being something of a bored socialite, doing whatever will entertain him or bring him a bit of pleasure at that moment. Not in a red, short-sighted way, he's far too old and experienced to be so impatient, but he doesn't bother with things that don't interest him.
He doesn't sound like a bad person, just not a very good one. He'd help you if it helped him too, or if he thought it would be amusing. Or if the fate of the multiverse hangs in the balance.
We haven't seen much of him, but from what we've seen he doesn't look like the type who'd stab his allies in the back, even. He seems more honorable than that; he's better than Anowon in that regard.
i'd have to say, judging from the flavor text, that he is a neutral, good of the multiverse person. meaning he doesn't really care what happens unless it involves him. but will still do things to keep the multiverse from being destroyed(hence the eldrazi situation)
He has to stop someone or some people from being more evil then him so in the end, he can be the most evil. So yes he is quite evil.
Where does anything say that he wants to be "the most evil?" He does what he wants, whether it brings good or evil to other people.
How many believable characters actually do things just to "be evil"? No, they always have a justification for their actions. They don't do evil things just because they are evil, they do them because they stand to gain something from them, or because they see it as a necessary sacrifice to produce an overall positive effect.
How many believable characters actually do things just to "be evil"? No, they always have a justification for their actions. They don't do evil things just because they are evil, they do them because they stand to gain something from them, or because they see it as a necessary sacrifice to produce an overall positive effect.
that seems to be the same with most planeswalkers, they don't care about the after affects on others, just the result of their "experiment" on themselves.
so sad, so sad:(
I'd say he doesn't seem to be the aristocrat type either, as he seems to not like the savage, careless and aristocratic Zen vamps.
So far I say he's freshly out of stereotype, he seems to have a concience and honour, not be angsty or emotional, nor stoic and tormented, we've yet to see a sexualy deviant behaviour and he's not into aristocracy or racism (Nissa's on that boat already), that makes him quite a different vampire than what we used to wich makes me thing his vampirism is just a way to score cool points and make him post-mending without less believable shenanigans.
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well, he's older than nicol bolas. so he may have been a "typical vampire" early in his life, but after more than a millenia, he's become more "civilized"
well, he's older than nicol bolas. so he may have been a "typical vampire" early in his life, but after more than a millenia, he's become more "civilized"
I think they've made it cannon that no-one is older than Bolas.
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The people that play legacy / vintage always amuse me. They want their formats to be represented more. They want more tournaments. But when anyone suggests allowing more people access to the formats by reprinting cards, the same people start screaming about the reprint policy.
He is not older than Bolas. He is as old as all current non-Bolas planeswalkers put together.
Toshi was a protagonist, yes, but not necessarily "heroic." In the end, he was responsible for saving Kamigawa and ending the Kami War, but mostly because he was trying to keep himself alive and out of trouble with matters that he didn't want to be involved with. He did grow a bit as a person, and became a bit less selfish, but even in the end he cares about himself before anything else. But he's not a bad guy.
the point i was getting at was that black mana doesnt mean evil. any color has the capacity for evil, which has been shown many times over. Its just that the values of black mana tend to manifest itself in evil.
The people that play legacy / vintage always amuse me. They want their formats to be represented more. They want more tournaments. But when anyone suggests allowing more people access to the formats by reprinting cards, the same people start screaming about the reprint policy.
White does actually feel like the more evil color. Sure white doesnt get cards that melt peoples faces off (disfigure), But its the color of killing masses at once, and has the "im suffering so you can all suffer with me" selfish evilness of balance and such. Sorin is a jailer, if he was white i could imagine him being alot more evil, Kind of like the punisher or dexter. Going around murdering people because they stole five dollars or other petty crimes
White does actually feel like the more evil color. Sure white doesnt get cards that melt peoples faces off (disfigure), But its the color of killing masses at once, and has the "im suffering so you can all suffer with me" selfish evilness of balance and such. Sorin is a jailer, if he was white i could imagine him being alot more evil, Kind of like the punisher or dexter. Going around murdering people because they stole five dollars or other petty crimes
The people that play legacy / vintage always amuse me. They want their formats to be represented more. They want more tournaments. But when anyone suggests allowing more people access to the formats by reprinting cards, the same people start screaming about the reprint policy.
I think they've made it cannon that no-one is older than Bolas.
It's canon. And yes, nobody is older than Bolas. He was one of the first beings with planeswalker-like powers to do battle against another with such powers. If there was another before him, Bolas would not have been the first one to do so. I mean, really? A vampire as the elder of the two? Please.
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Please don't mistake "Bolas is older then any living walker" with "Bolas is the first walker". I doubt Nicol Bolas was the first ever Planeswalke rin the multiverse, if he was he would be full of awesome and he is not. He could and probably is the first Dominarian walker but remember, Dominaria is not the odlest plane by far.
Bolas wasn't from Dominaria. It was confirmed that Bolas took part in the first planeswalker duel on Dominaria. And, if Bolas himself is to be believed, he was old before Dominaria was created.
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For now, I'm with Cosmic. He's a vampire which makes him auto-bad in my book, but he DID help seal away some multiversal threat.
What I expect, from the little we know so far, is that he has good objectives, but he's perfectly fine with using evil means to achieve those objectives.
(I dislike it when things can easily be classified as "good" or "evil" in literature)
However, self serving doesn't necesarilly preclude service to the greater interests of the multiverse. Black isn't required to be evil. In fact, there have arguably been more white based villians than black.
I can think of two prime examples of non-evil black characters off the top of my head. Toshihiro Umezawa (and by extension Tetsuo) and Jarad of the Golgari. Black, but not by essence evil.
I think it's selfish, but enlightened self interest can often be good. He seems like a wise fellow.
He seems nicer than Nissa at least. As long as you're a non-elf.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Are you honestly telling me you wouldn't want to see Sorin swirl his glass of "wine" and do the hair flippy thing and then say, "BWAHAHA I'm EVIL. How evil? I drink the blood of puppies!!!" like a certain someone from Justice for All?
Though you and everyone else have a point. Self-serving (his initial appearance, we'll know more after In the Teeth of Akoum comes out) does not necessarily mean evil.
He doesn't sound like a bad person, just not a very good one. He'd help you if it helped him too, or if he thought it would be amusing. Or if the fate of the multiverse hangs in the balance.
We haven't seen much of him, but from what we've seen he doesn't look like the type who'd stab his allies in the back, even. He seems more honorable than that; he's better than Anowon in that regard.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Where does anything say that he wants to be "the most evil?" He does what he wants, whether it brings good or evil to other people.
How many believable characters actually do things just to "be evil"? No, they always have a justification for their actions. They don't do evil things just because they are evil, they do them because they stand to gain something from them, or because they see it as a necessary sacrifice to produce an overall positive effect.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
that seems to be the same with most planeswalkers, they don't care about the after affects on others, just the result of their "experiment" on themselves.
so sad, so sad:(
So far I say he's freshly out of stereotype, he seems to have a concience and honour, not be angsty or emotional, nor stoic and tormented, we've yet to see a sexualy deviant behaviour and he's not into aristocracy or racism (Nissa's on that boat already), that makes him quite a different vampire than what we used to wich makes me thing his vampirism is just a way to score cool points and make him post-mending without less believable shenanigans.
I think they've made it cannon that no-one is older than Bolas.
Toshi was a protagonist, yes, but not necessarily "heroic." In the end, he was responsible for saving Kamigawa and ending the Kami War, but mostly because he was trying to keep himself alive and out of trouble with matters that he didn't want to be involved with. He did grow a bit as a person, and became a bit less selfish, but even in the end he cares about himself before anything else. But he's not a bad guy.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
dont forget cards like land tax, or resurrection. as well as cards like condemn, journey to nowhere, and caravan hurda.
even so, that is still a long time. so my theory still stands but not as strongly
It's canon. And yes, nobody is older than Bolas. He was one of the first beings with planeswalker-like powers to do battle against another with such powers. If there was another before him, Bolas would not have been the first one to do so. I mean, really? A vampire as the elder of the two? Please.
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