While I'd love to do a detailed analysis of this, I can't really say much more that Creative's blurb on her hasn't said already. Here's my abridged reasoning, which revolves around a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig assumption (you'll know it when you see it):
1) The events of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor may have occurred at the time Alara's Sundering did. It's never clarified, but I would think that a plane shattering completely would qualify as a "great disaster", to use Oona's words.
2) Based on (1), that puts the Lorwyn cycle roughly a millenium before Agents of Artifice, and consequently the Zendikar storyline (Purifying Fire happens during the events of Agents of Artifice; Chandra leaves for Zendikar at the end of the Purifying Fire).
3) Nissa Revane went to "the sunny world of Lorwyn", and learned of how the elves there were G/B utilizing, beauty-obsessed individuals who maintain the top of the food chain, as it were. Incidentally, how did she fit in with them to even learn when she doesn't have horns or hooves? Wouldn't she be an eyeblight*?
4) Based on (1) to (3) (and assuming 1 is true), this would mean she had been on her planar travels for some time, perhaps even before the little ritual that Sorin and the other two performed on Zendikar to do you-know-what. That would put her at no less than roughly a thousand years old, if not more... which feels off somehow, based on the rest of the brief data about her.
* This is assuming that things were still in the day/night cycle as set by Oona. Nissa wouldn't have gone to the sunny world of Lorwyn if it wasn't.
The great disaster ha dnothing to do with Alara. The Great disaster were the rifts in Dominaria.
Now if we are only taking substantial proof of her age, on the MtG website it says Sorin is older then all othe rPlaneswalkers combined minus Bolas. Thus Sorin is older then Nissa. Plus they have mentioned so far Sorin, Bolas and Liliana are older then the mending and none of the others are as of yet.
Doesn't work. While we don't know at what date in Argivian Reckoning the Great Aurora happened, we do know a few things. We know that it took place (as Angel said) after the Meandering. And we know that Liliana is roughly 120 years old. And we know that she was around before the Meandering. So that would place the Great Aurora at most 120 years after the Meandering--probably less because we can assume that Liliana wasn't 0 years old when the Meandering happened. So if Liliana was 20 when the Meandering happened, that would mean the Great Aurora happened between 4500-4600 AR; if she was 30, that would mean the Great Aurora happened between 4500-4590; etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
AIM - EidTelNVil
Xbox Live - eidtelnvil
PlayStation Network - eidtelnvil
Currently reading It by Stephen King
Currently playing Persona 4
I am not too familiar with the Lorwyn story and how much of an impact the five Planeswalkers introduced then are, but if they were even just passing through during the events of the block, that would place it at some point after the Sundering of Alara I would think because Ajani is represented in a younger form after Alara has been in its Shard state for some time.
Also, Angelmonster, off topic, your avatar creeps me the hell out every time and I can't look away. It just captures me. I love it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: BRG Jund Midrange GRB //// B Vampire Aggro B //// WRU Patriot Control URW
Extended: RGW Zoo WGR
Legacy: RUG Canadian Thresh GUR
I am not too familiar with the Lorwyn story and how much of an impact the five Planeswalkers introduced then are, but if they were even just passing through during the events of the block, that would place it at some point after the Sundering of Alara I would think because Ajani is represented in a younger form after Alara has been in its Shard state for some time.
Also, Angelmonster, off topic, your avatar creeps me the hell out every time and I can't look away. It just captures me. I love it.
The veracity of the planeswalkers being in Lorwyn is a bit of a big question. It's currently the popular belief that they are non-canon as being in Lorwyn at all.
I am not too familiar with the Lorwyn story and how much of an impact the five Planeswalkers introduced then are, but if they were even just passing through during the events of the block, that would place it at some point after the Sundering of Alara I would think because Ajani is represented in a younger form after Alara has been in its Shard state for some time.
Also, Angelmonster, off topic, your avatar creeps me the hell out every time and I can't look away. It just captures me. I love it.
The five walkers in Lorwyn wer emore of an introduction to the main characters on the new storyline. So far all of them have played a pretty pivitol role right now in magic(minus Garruk). I think MtG just wante dto launch Pwalker cards. If you think about it everyone but Ajani would be pointless if placed in Alara.
And thanks for the compliment. It is so creepy/cute that you want to pinch its cheeks lol.
Where was it established that the events of the Lorwyn cycle occurred at most 1.5 centuries past? I must have missed that data.
That's not what's being said. We know the Great Aurora happened after ~4500 AR. We know that Liliana ascended before ~4500 AR. We know that Liliana is, right now, ~120 years old. So we know that it is at the very most 4620 AR--and that would be if Liliana ascended and then two seconds later the Meandering happened. This probably isn't the case, but we can use this to state that at the most, it is currently 4620 AR--120 years after the Meandering. So that narrows it down a bit.
This narrows it down a bit more. We know that Jace is around 20 (20-25, but let's simplify and say 20). And Jace has absolutely no idea what natural planeswalkers were like. All this really means is that it is at least 4520 AR. If Jace was born the very day of the Meandering, that would put us at 4520 AR. Unlikely, but that's a possibility.
So it is between ~4520-4620 AR. (Lower boundary allowing for the possibility of Jace being born during the same year as the Meandering, upper boundary allowing for the possibility that Liliana ascended during the same year as the Meandering).
And, yeah, if Liliana is lying about her age, then it could very well be 600,000 AR, so **** it.
And, yeah, if Liliana is lying about her age, then it could very well be 600,000 AR, so **** it.
Wouldn't be the first time a woman's lied about her age.
Which basically means that we'll just have to wait and see until Liliana's book is out. This way, we'll finally get the background behind the black planeswalker and her deal with demons.
Or maybe we won't and be kept totally in the dark. And then we're ****ed again.
To throw another wrench in...couldn't Nissa be able to, like some other planeswalkers, be able to change appearance in order to blend in? That may be how she was able to go to Lorwyn and learn from the B/G elves.
To throw another wrench in...couldn't Nissa be able to, like some other planeswalkers, be able to change appearance in order to blend in? That may be how she was able to go to Lorwyn and learn from the B/G elves.
Just another two cents.
~Lil Kalki
Well camouflaging is in green flavor (Kavu Chameleon style).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
To throw another wrench in...couldn't Nissa be able to, like some other planeswalkers, be able to change appearance in order to blend in? That may be how she was able to go to Lorwyn and learn from the B/G elves.
Just another two cents.
~Lil Kalki
They no longer have the ability to change their shape so no, she couldn't have doen tha tunless she is a shape shifter.
All in all Nissa probably was there right before Shadowmoore came to pass. She could be an old, pre-mending walker but it is clearly stated on the wensite Bolas and sorin are older then her. I could see her being around Liliana's age possibly but that is it. No proof otherwise but there is proof that she is younger then OP predicted.
Let me rephrase my question: Which Great Aurora happened around 4520 AR? There have been unquestionably many occurances of it in the Lorywn <-> Shadowmoor alterations. When I asked about the Lorwyn cycle events, I was referring to the last one that would have happened (the last shifting to Shadowmoor, where Oona was killed and replaced; the novels' events, in other words).
I ask about Nissa Revane's age because her bio on the page suggests either she went before the last Aurora changed Lorwyn to Shadowmoor (ie - before the long day/night cycle was broken but right before the events with Rhys and Maralen transpired), or Nissa went to Lorwyn a much longer time ago (since the Great Aurora cycles are apparently centuries apart). Either way, it brings into question how old she is, unless that particular plane is being called, unquestionably, Lorwyn. Either that, or they call it Lorwyn during the (now normal?) daytime, and Shadowmoor while it's night, but calling it "the sunny world of Lorwyn" seemed to say that it was before the day-night cycles on the plane were repaired.
It is noted on her planeswalker page, along with a note on how she "dabbles in the usage of black mana".
She should spend some time with the Golgari of Ravnica.
I'd support that. She could pick up some Devkarin magic.
Though I do have to wonder how it was that the Lorwyn elves didn't just tear her apart when they saw she didn't have horns. Guess she glamoured herself or something.
Is it just me or does the whole "Nissa will do anything to protect her elves" thing remind anyone of Freyalise?
As long as they make her green/black, I like the way the are taking Nissa. But for now, and until I read the block novel, she seems like a bit of a whimp.
But for now, and until I read the block novel, she seems like a bit of a whimp.
Just hope she doesn't turn into another Elspeth.
"My treessss! They're burning! *tear tear* Time to leave."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[spoiler]EDH Decks: UBW Sharuum, the Hegemon U Azami, Lady of Scrolls UR Jhoria of the Ghitu X Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade UW Grand Arbiter Agustin IV BRG Kresh, the Bloodbraided R Ashling the Pilgrim UB Szadek, Lord of Secrets
"My treessss! They're burning! *tear tear* Time to leave."
my interpretation of what Elspeth does in the Alara book remains "Oh crap! I got machine parts inside of me! /runs away before creepy black ooze blood is noticed."
It will remain so until proven otherwise
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Eh, I think that fleeing is a generally white aspect alltogether. Serra did it too, ne?
When the perfect world turns out to not be so perfect afterall, both Elspeth and Serra chose to just leave. Strange, for a colour thats supposedly about order and protection.
based on her behavior I honestly think that Serra would have been W/B if she had ever bothered to mess with black mana as in many ways she was the direct mirror of Yawgmoth's arrogance and delusions of godhood transmuted into the white mindeset (see also Konda)...I think that the easiest way that wotc has found to create a white antagonist or flawed white walker is to create a character who decides that the are the embodiment of their people who become self obsessed dictator types. Best real world comparisons are probably Hitler and Mao. (Stalin didn't delude himself into thinking that what he was doing was meant to benefit anyone other than Stalin)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Eh, I think that fleeing is a generally white aspect alltogether. Serra did it too, ne?
When the perfect world turns out to not be so perfect afterall, both Elspeth and Serra chose to just leave. Strange, for a colour thats supposedly about order and protection.
Honestly, I am strongly starting to hate the white walker paradigm. They seem to commonly confuse "purity" for "honor" which was a point drawn very strongly here and obviously have no concept of what Honor actually is. Of course they still sit on their high horses and espouse the rules of an honorable society and how everyone else is living their lives wrong and their way is best.
Is it just me or does the whole "Nissa will do anything to protect her elves" thing remind anyone of Freyalise?
As long as they make her green/black, I like the way the are taking Nissa. But for now, and until I read the block novel, she seems like a bit of a whimp.
When the initial background info was released for her that came with "An Elf who thinks Elves are the superior race". BAM~ Here comes our Brady-Freyalise.
The major derivative though is that instead of Red Mana, she dabbles in Black.
Eh, I think that fleeing is a generally white aspect alltogether. Serra did it too, ne?
When the perfect world turns out to not be so perfect afterall, both Elspeth and Serra chose to just leave. Strange, for a colour thats supposedly about order and protection.
Generally so but Serra's is more justified. If she didn't promote an Exodus to all her people they would've all died (collapsing plane to her people, black mana creeping into Serra). Seriously, that was one of those moments where in you would've wished you had INFINITE MANA. She could've balanced her plane again with that.
Elspeth on the other hand just went "Oh shi, my dress got stained... i'll scrap this one out and buy a new one". And to think that Bant, being part of a Natural plane had lots in store to be restored.
I agree with Barinellos though, current Creative should explore other types of characterization. This rehashing old characters into Brady versions is just... disappointing for those of their namesake.
Honestly, I am strongly starting to hate the white walker paradigm. .
What you're cluing into is the fact that all of the paradigms are universally stupid these days. Originally colors impacted actions in a loose sort of way. Blue aligned cards would be more about thinking, white about honor, red about emotion, ect.
Now-a-days color defines everything. You're not blue because you're a thinker, you're a thinker because you're blue. As long as color comes before character, it'll spawn countless cliches and repetitive archetypes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1) The events of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor may have occurred at the time Alara's Sundering did. It's never clarified, but I would think that a plane shattering completely would qualify as a "great disaster", to use Oona's words.
2) Based on (1), that puts the Lorwyn cycle roughly a millenium before Agents of Artifice, and consequently the Zendikar storyline (Purifying Fire happens during the events of Agents of Artifice; Chandra leaves for Zendikar at the end of the Purifying Fire).
3) Nissa Revane went to "the sunny world of Lorwyn", and learned of how the elves there were G/B utilizing, beauty-obsessed individuals who maintain the top of the food chain, as it were. Incidentally, how did she fit in with them to even learn when she doesn't have horns or hooves? Wouldn't she be an eyeblight*?
4) Based on (1) to (3) (and assuming 1 is true), this would mean she had been on her planar travels for some time, perhaps even before the little ritual that Sorin and the other two performed on Zendikar to do you-know-what. That would put her at no less than roughly a thousand years old, if not more... which feels off somehow, based on the rest of the brief data about her.
* This is assuming that things were still in the day/night cycle as set by Oona. Nissa wouldn't have gone to the sunny world of Lorwyn if it wasn't.
Thoughts?
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Now if we are only taking substantial proof of her age, on the MtG website it says Sorin is older then all othe rPlaneswalkers combined minus Bolas. Thus Sorin is older then Nissa. Plus they have mentioned so far Sorin, Bolas and Liliana are older then the mending and none of the others are as of yet.
Xbox Live - eidtelnvil
PlayStation Network - eidtelnvil
Currently reading It by Stephen King
Currently playing Persona 4
Also, Angelmonster, off topic, your avatar creeps me the hell out every time and I can't look away. It just captures me. I love it.
BRG Jund Midrange GRB //// B Vampire Aggro B //// WRU Patriot Control URW
Extended:
RGW Zoo WGR
Legacy:
RUG Canadian Thresh GUR
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U //// WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion BW //// UR Jhoira of the Ghitu RU
Special thanks to spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios for the banner
Xbox Live - eidtelnvil
PlayStation Network - eidtelnvil
Currently reading It by Stephen King
Currently playing Persona 4
The veracity of the planeswalkers being in Lorwyn is a bit of a big question. It's currently the popular belief that they are non-canon as being in Lorwyn at all.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
The five walkers in Lorwyn wer emore of an introduction to the main characters on the new storyline. So far all of them have played a pretty pivitol role right now in magic(minus Garruk). I think MtG just wante dto launch Pwalker cards. If you think about it everyone but Ajani would be pointless if placed in Alara.
And thanks for the compliment. It is so creepy/cute that you want to pinch its cheeks lol.
That's not what's being said. We know the Great Aurora happened after ~4500 AR. We know that Liliana ascended before ~4500 AR. We know that Liliana is, right now, ~120 years old. So we know that it is at the very most 4620 AR--and that would be if Liliana ascended and then two seconds later the Meandering happened. This probably isn't the case, but we can use this to state that at the most, it is currently 4620 AR--120 years after the Meandering. So that narrows it down a bit.
This narrows it down a bit more. We know that Jace is around 20 (20-25, but let's simplify and say 20). And Jace has absolutely no idea what natural planeswalkers were like. All this really means is that it is at least 4520 AR. If Jace was born the very day of the Meandering, that would put us at 4520 AR. Unlikely, but that's a possibility.
So it is between ~4520-4620 AR. (Lower boundary allowing for the possibility of Jace being born during the same year as the Meandering, upper boundary allowing for the possibility that Liliana ascended during the same year as the Meandering).
And, yeah, if Liliana is lying about her age, then it could very well be 600,000 AR, so **** it.
Xbox Live - eidtelnvil
PlayStation Network - eidtelnvil
Currently reading It by Stephen King
Currently playing Persona 4
Wouldn't be the first time a woman's lied about her age.
Which basically means that we'll just have to wait and see until Liliana's book is out. This way, we'll finally get the background behind the black planeswalker and her deal with demons.
Or maybe we won't and be kept totally in the dark. And then we're ****ed again.
Just another two cents.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
Well camouflaging is in green flavor (Kavu Chameleon style).
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
They no longer have the ability to change their shape so no, she couldn't have doen tha tunless she is a shape shifter.
All in all Nissa probably was there right before Shadowmoore came to pass. She could be an old, pre-mending walker but it is clearly stated on the wensite Bolas and sorin are older then her. I could see her being around Liliana's age possibly but that is it. No proof otherwise but there is proof that she is younger then OP predicted.
I ask about Nissa Revane's age because her bio on the page suggests either she went before the last Aurora changed Lorwyn to Shadowmoor (ie - before the long day/night cycle was broken but right before the events with Rhys and Maralen transpired), or Nissa went to Lorwyn a much longer time ago (since the Great Aurora cycles are apparently centuries apart). Either way, it brings into question how old she is, unless that particular plane is being called, unquestionably, Lorwyn. Either that, or they call it Lorwyn during the (now normal?) daytime, and Shadowmoor while it's night, but calling it "the sunny world of Lorwyn" seemed to say that it was before the day-night cycles on the plane were repaired.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
It is noted on her planeswalker page, along with a note on how she "dabbles in the usage of black mana".
She should spend some time with the Golgari of Ravnica.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I'd support that. She could pick up some Devkarin magic.
Though I do have to wonder how it was that the Lorwyn elves didn't just tear her apart when they saw she didn't have horns. Guess she glamoured herself or something.
As long as they make her green/black, I like the way the are taking Nissa. But for now, and until I read the block novel, she seems like a bit of a whimp.
Just hope she doesn't turn into another Elspeth.
"My treessss! They're burning! *tear tear* Time to leave."
UBW Sharuum, the Hegemon
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
UR Jhoria of the Ghitu
X Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
UW Grand Arbiter Agustin IV
BRG Kresh, the Bloodbraided
R Ashling the Pilgrim
UB Szadek, Lord of Secrets
Standard:
F*** standard
It will remain so until proven otherwise
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
based on her behavior I honestly think that Serra would have been W/B if she had ever bothered to mess with black mana as in many ways she was the direct mirror of Yawgmoth's arrogance and delusions of godhood transmuted into the white mindeset (see also Konda)...I think that the easiest way that wotc has found to create a white antagonist or flawed white walker is to create a character who decides that the are the embodiment of their people who become self obsessed dictator types. Best real world comparisons are probably Hitler and Mao. (Stalin didn't delude himself into thinking that what he was doing was meant to benefit anyone other than Stalin)
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Allow me to clap slowly for you.
/golfclap
Honestly, I am strongly starting to hate the white walker paradigm. They seem to commonly confuse "purity" for "honor" which was a point drawn very strongly here and obviously have no concept of what Honor actually is. Of course they still sit on their high horses and espouse the rules of an honorable society and how everyone else is living their lives wrong and their way is best.
When the initial background info was released for her that came with "An Elf who thinks Elves are the superior race". BAM~ Here comes our Brady-Freyalise.
The major derivative though is that instead of Red Mana, she dabbles in Black.
Generally so but Serra's is more justified. If she didn't promote an Exodus to all her people they would've all died (collapsing plane to her people, black mana creeping into Serra). Seriously, that was one of those moments where in you would've wished you had INFINITE MANA. She could've balanced her plane again with that.
Elspeth on the other hand just went "Oh shi, my dress got stained... i'll scrap this one out and buy a new one". And to think that Bant, being part of a Natural plane had lots in store to be restored.
I agree with Barinellos though, current Creative should explore other types of characterization. This rehashing old characters into Brady versions is just... disappointing for those of their namesake.
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
What you're cluing into is the fact that all of the paradigms are universally stupid these days. Originally colors impacted actions in a loose sort of way. Blue aligned cards would be more about thinking, white about honor, red about emotion, ect.
Now-a-days color defines everything. You're not blue because you're a thinker, you're a thinker because you're blue. As long as color comes before character, it'll spawn countless cliches and repetitive archetypes.