Maybe the minions on Alara were just a small part of Bolas's greater organization. They were secret agents who manipulated their planes in Bolas's command. Isn't it exactly how the Consortium worked?
From what we have heard of his Alara schemes, and from what I learned about the nature of the Consortium from the book, I'd say that it would be talking apples and oranges. Especially because these worlds' societies are far from normal thanks to their mana imbalance. You can hardly treat Rakka Mar as his agent in the Consortium-style. Gwafa, the Skyward Eye or Seekers, yes - but that's because Bant and Esper are the societies closest to "normal".
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When he's gone? Bolas left Grixis? Where did he go?
Just to a short rendez-vous with Tezzeret and Jace at a distant, frozen and mana-deficit world (the one that ends with him reading Tezz's mind).
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Normally I would call this just a plain speculation, but when said by you, Brady, I'm starting to be tensed up. I know you can't tell us anything involving future stories, but can you at least explain this? Or is there an another story about either Bolas or Tezz that explains it?
Heh....Brady's teasing us I do not expect him to share more, but I expect a lot of speculation being born from this sole sentence.
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That means they got a plothole, and they'll do everything they can to ignore it until we forget about it. *cough*Karonaandherportalsandtripstootherplanes*cough*
The most logical explanation I can find is that Bolas let Tezz take the consortium because he had more important things to do, or knew that he wasn't fit to do it for a certain development phase of it, and he let Tezz and Jace fight to test their abilities, and whomever "won" the fight was inconsequential to his plans, because Bolas would win in the end.
The most logical explanation I can find is that Bolas let Tezz take the consortium because he had more important things to do, or knew that he wasn't fit to do it for a certain development phase of it, and he let Tezz and Jace fight to test their abilities, and whomever "won" the fight was inconsequential to his plans, because Bolas would win in the end.
Perhaps Bolas, in all his cunning, foresaw Tezz's fall to him, later on, and wasn't over-concerned with temporarily not having to bother with keeping track of the Consortium.
Or perhaps I'm wrong. I'll let WotC decide.
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[Imagine scantily-clad women in a leud embrace,
one stretched out and victim to a chokehold of the other,
both with big stupid grins spreading across their faces.]
Plus, Tezzeret seemed like he was much more open about his involvement in each cell. More than just the second-in-command knows that Tezz's in command. The only way Tezz was able to take control of the first place was because he had a few more targets. It seems the only option for Bolas is the Hostile Takeover option.
And if he has to do that, then he'll get minions (Liliana) to do it for him, while he works on more important projects, like the Conflux.
That means they got a plothole, and they'll do everything they can to ignore it until we forget about it. *cough*Karonaandherportalsandtripstootherplanes*cough*
They explained that, though. Remember? Time rifts. The simple, effective solution to any of the writers' bad ideas that somehow made it through the editors.
Ramos is a sentient dragon engine when they don't exist and met Urza even though he didn't? - Time rifts.
Urza didn't close the portal in the Caves of Koilos even though he had 4000 years to do so? - Time rifts.
Serra and the Ineffable are alive even though they aren't even though they are even though they aren't? - Time rifts.
Planeswalkers are immortal, all-powerful, omniscient beings even though they haven't been for the past ten years? - Time rifts.
Yavimaya is where Argoth used to be even though it isn't? - Time rifts.
Planeswalkers draw mana from the time rifts even though they haven't for the past ten years? - Time rifts.
Time rifts are like duct tape. They fix everything.
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I just feel like I need to mention this. There was one little part in the book I REALLY liked, and really appreciated. When Liliana was talking to Kallist about how much he and Jace cared for each other:
"You two weren't...?" She let the question dangle.
"Lovers?" Kallist laughed. "Uh, no. We were friends, partners, maybe even brothers. Nothing more."
The way Kallist reacted to it, that it wasn't that big a deal, merely correcting a misunderstanding...
There's a part in the Ravnica book where a viashino propositions a human male, and the human thinks that the viashino might be male as well. I'd say that's probably the first one.
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There's a part in the Ravnica book where a viashino propositions a human male, and the human thinks that the viashino might be male as well. I'd say that's probably the first one.
The thing with that example is that its origin is unclear. It could be:
The viashino doesn't have a good understanding of human gender differences.
The human (Kos, as I recall) doesn't have a good understanding of viashino gender differences.
The viashino is drunk.
The viashino is gay.
Any combination of the above
Conversely, it's hard to dispute the meaning of the exchange between Liliana and Kallist.
1 - The viashino was a prostitute. He/she was very familiar with human genders.
2 - The human (who was not Kos) was very unfamiliar with viashino genders. That was the point.
3 - The viashino was not drunk. He/she was propositioning the human.
4 - The viashino was a prostitute. Sexual preferences probably didn't cross his/her mind.
5 - No combination of the above is possible.
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Alright, now grab a random person on the street, and tell them to determine that pet's gender by sight.
9 times out of 10, they'll just look at you and either shrug, or try to get a look "under the hood," as it were.* The average person on the street will have problems determining the gender.
One would assume that the bird or lizard would have the same trouble figuring out the gender of the crazy mammals who keep putting them in that bleeping cage.
Well I just finished AoA(all I did Sunday was get something to eat/drink, curl up on the coush and read all day with my ipod on) and I have to admit that it wasn't as bad as I thoguht it was going to be. Still not as good as the old Magic storyline and some things were pretty obvious.
The writing style was excelent, probably the best since Brother War in my opinion. just the style though, I loved the opening and how Ari Marmell described the BLin Eternities. It was almost perfect
Out of it I have to also admit that I just don't like Tezzeret. Honestly I can't give you an exact reason just something about his character irks me.
Overall though I would give it 8 out of 10. It is no Brothers War/Planeswalker but it is the best book the current creative team has put out, period. Hopefully that bring in more authors like this or hire Ari to do more books because his style is great It was one of the main things that made me want to finisht he book in a day :-D
This is hard to say. I mean, look at the arts of some viashino people. Are you able to recognize whether they're males or females? I'm not, they look alike to me. And I believe the lizard-people would have the same problem with human genders, even when they're prostitutes. Maybe they'd understand the basics like that men are usually taller and have beards or so, but if you showed them a slim man with long hair (Jodah, for example) they'd be really confused IMO. And seriously, how many human customers do you think a viashino prostitute had in his/her life?
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1 - The viashino was a prostitute. He/she was very familiar with human genders.
That's the part you were supposed to take away. He/she was a prostitute. As a prostitute, he/she gets paid to have sex with people. Judging by his/her propositioning a human male, it's likely that he/she has had some experience telling the difference between human genders. He/she was, after all, a prostitute.
And seriously, how many human customers do you think a viashino prostitute had in his/her life?
Honestly? Probably a lot. Again, he/she is a prostitute. He/she doesn't exactly have much of a selection process is clientele.
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I just finished the book about an hour ago, and I'm glad to find this thread still alive and kicking.
First off, I really did like the book. It was involved, it was detailed, and in particular, the conversation was well done. The one thing that irked me were I think four (But I may have missed more) pretty catchable typos that I doubt should have made it through the editing process. One in particular was "the he", which in context (and out, since an article needn't come before a pronoun) struck me as really odd.
I think that they did an excellent job of characterization. Tezzeret was every bit the power-hungry leader one would imagine the leader of the Consortium to be. I also liked the artificer aspect of him. Being of Esper, I hoped he wasn't just going to be some BAMF mage, and found the ideas of his creations to befit someone of his origin. Jace was well done, and I'm glad that by the end of the book he had begun to grow a spine. Because he wasn't exactly happy with some of the dirty work he was doing, it really does make a huge difference for him being a relatable character. I was reminded of my thoughts when playing Grand Theft Auto IV - Niko Bellic, the protagonist you assume the role of in the game, was not a big fan of getting involved with who he was getting involved with, for his move to the U.S. was to get away from the dirty work he was doing where he'd been, and is part of why the game's plot was much better than the previous installments.
Lastly, though, I think that Liliana has buckets of information to reveal. Easily the most intriguing character in the book in my eyes, I look forward to hearing about her beginnings, as well as another book hopefully showing Jace's plans being put into motion to free Liliana from her demonic pacts. It really would be pretty cool if those two wound up being together.
I believe her clients were usually lizards as well. I know there's a lot of something-phillic people, possibly even in the MTG universe, but I really can't imagine any human who would like to have sex with a dinosaur ;). I'm sorry but I don't want to talk about it anymore, it's just too....you know.
The word you're probably looking for is Saurophillic.
I'm sorry but why should Jace want to help Liliana. He always seemed to care mostly for himself, not to mention, she betrayed him, as he found out shortly before the fight with Tezz. But Liliana doesn't need him anyway, she gave Bolas his Consortium back, now it's the elder dragon's duty to repay the favor ;).
Probably because even though she did betray him, Jace still cares for her. Plus, it says at the end that he knows they'd meet again, and when he does he'll have her answer. He'd know how to free her from her bargain(s). He said he'd free her, and if he could love the woman hiding beneath all the lies, he thinks that they could probably begin again.
Anyway, she didn't give Bolas the Consortium back. Liliana planned to give Bolas the Consortium with a leader who was amenable to her, and, by extension, Bolas. She failed in that respect. The only way he would feel any need to uphold his end of the bargain is if she had succeeded in her part, or if she would, as she says, "trade one master for another." In the latter case, he'd feel inclined to protect his investment.
The fact that Bolas effectively got the Consortium back ANYWAY is beside the point. He obeys the letter of the agreement, if not the spirit.
I believe at the end of the novel (one of the few bits I read in the bookstore), Bolas offered Vess a job. Vess turned it down, saying she would be trading one master for another, which Bolas admitted was exactly what she'd be doing. He then said that the offer was open should she change her mind. I'm pretty sure he also offered to "deal" with the demons controlling Vess.
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So she manipulated him to the fight with his former master and then tried to kill him and in turn he wants to save her from a pack of demons? Oh God, and people say Chandra is naïve :rolleyes:.
Someone once said that when you're in love, your IQ drops about 10 points. Yes, he's going to help free her, but he might not stay with her.
So you think Bolas won't help Liliana? I was under the impression that he was willing to do that at the emd of the novel. After all, he has both his organization and its treacherous leader, as Liliana promised. I'm curious whether Bolas is now going to rule the Consortium through Tezzeret...
The exchange in question is on pages 345-346. "The plan, unless I rather woefully misunderstood, was to place someone in change you could influence on my behalf, if not for you to rule it yourself," Bolas says. Liliana did not hold up her end of the bargain. He wanted someone else in charge of the Consortium while he focused on other matters, most likely the Conflux.
He does give her another option (two, for that matter) where he would be willing to help her. "Offer me something else worth the trouble you bring me... and I will make you the same bargain.... Alternatively, you might swear allegiance to me. A planeswalker and necromancer of your power might prove useful indeed, and I would, of course, seek to protect my investment..." Yes, he'd be willing to help her, but only if she provided some net benefit to his effort to take out a quartet of demons. As is, she's probably only worth half a demon.
Btw. could someone tell me whether the novel tells us how old Tezzeret was or how he looked like during the story? I'm asking because I hear that he was planned to be much older in the novle than he is in The Seeker's Fall...
No, Tezz doesn't state his age, but considering the events that took place over the 5+ years described in the novel, and how long Tezz would have had to work at it to get the Consortium and keep it...
I'd estimate that Tezzeret is at least in his mid-30's, at most his late-40's.
Btw. could someone tell me whether the novel tells us how old Tezzeret was or how he looked like during the story? I'm asking because I hear that he was planned to be much older in the novle than he is in The Seeker's Fall...
He seems much older. He's a late teens, early twenties guy in The Seeker's Fall, it seems. In the novel he has usurped an organization from and become a rival of sorts with Nicol Bolas, that doesn't happen overnight. I'd say he's at least 10-20 years older in the novel.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
But he got Tezzeret, didn't he? He could use him...
Again, letter of the law, not the spirit. Bolas is not a nice dragon, nor particularly kind.
Bolas: "You didn't give me the Consortium, Lilly."
Liliana: "But you have Tezzeret's body!"
Bolas: "Did you get what was in his mind? Did you retrieve his body for me? Did you put a leader in place that would answer to me? No? Sorry, too bad. Good day."
Liliana: "But—"
Bolas: "I said GOOD DAY!"
I'd like to know how his physical appearance changed. I have some info about what the character was originally planned to be like, and he's described as an old man with white hair etc. Does the novel say anything about his approx. age? Hair color or so would help...
Actually, he's described as a man with dull blonde hair, so I wouldn't put him past 50.
Not counting any anti-aging enhancements that Etherium grafting gives him.
I'd like to know how his physical appearance changed. I have some info about what the character was originally planned to be like, and he's described as an old man with white hair etc. Does the novel say anything about his approx. age? Hair color or so would help...
Like the post above says, it doesn't saym uch more than he's a blond guy, really. There's no indicator of age. Again, though, he usurped a "trading" company from Nicol Bolas, and even knew magics that could keep Bolas himself at bay for a period of time in one encounter, so he's much more experienced than the Tezzeret we see in the webcomic. He isn't an old man with a beard/cane or anything like that which would tell us more.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
Ok, does anyone other than me question the vampire angle with Jace?
I mean the guy was bitten, are planeswalkers vampire proof or what?
Maybe we will see a Black/blue Jace in Reborn:
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^ That seems to be the problem with making the Planeswalkers mortal. How does things like a Vampire bite effect them? Is bolas still basically immortal since he is an elder dragon? Etc etc. Does makign them mortal give them the ability to become immortal through othe rmeans, like Vampires or even the Fountain of youth like Jodah?
Yea, when he was about to die from the poison Tezzeret gave him after leaving the cell, Liliana summoned one to suck his blood and get rid of all the poison. It almost killed him.
I dont know about Nicol Bolas. I mean, what IS the average life span of a Planeswalking Dragon? Maybe he's still a baby.
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From what we have heard of his Alara schemes, and from what I learned about the nature of the Consortium from the book, I'd say that it would be talking apples and oranges. Especially because these worlds' societies are far from normal thanks to their mana imbalance. You can hardly treat Rakka Mar as his agent in the Consortium-style. Gwafa, the Skyward Eye or Seekers, yes - but that's because Bant and Esper are the societies closest to "normal".
Just to a short rendez-vous with Tezzeret and Jace at a distant, frozen and mana-deficit world (the one that ends with him reading Tezz's mind).
Heh....Brady's teasing us I do not expect him to share more, but I expect a lot of speculation being born from this sole sentence.
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The most logical explanation I can find is that Bolas let Tezz take the consortium because he had more important things to do, or knew that he wasn't fit to do it for a certain development phase of it, and he let Tezz and Jace fight to test their abilities, and whomever "won" the fight was inconsequential to his plans, because Bolas would win in the end.
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Perhaps Bolas, in all his cunning, foresaw Tezz's fall to him, later on, and wasn't over-concerned with temporarily not having to bother with keeping track of the Consortium.
Or perhaps I'm wrong. I'll let WotC decide.
And if he has to do that, then he'll get minions (Liliana) to do it for him, while he works on more important projects, like the Conflux.
They explained that, though. Remember? Time rifts. The simple, effective solution to any of the writers' bad ideas that somehow made it through the editors.
Ramos is a sentient dragon engine when they don't exist and met Urza even though he didn't? - Time rifts.
Urza didn't close the portal in the Caves of Koilos even though he had 4000 years to do so? - Time rifts.
Serra and the Ineffable are alive even though they aren't even though they are even though they aren't? - Time rifts.
Planeswalkers are immortal, all-powerful, omniscient beings even though they haven't been for the past ten years? - Time rifts.
Yavimaya is where Argoth used to be even though it isn't? - Time rifts.
Planeswalkers draw mana from the time rifts even though they haven't for the past ten years? - Time rifts.
Time rifts are like duct tape. They fix everything.
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And they're twice as shiny.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
The way Kallist reacted to it, that it wasn't that big a deal, merely correcting a misunderstanding...
I don't know, that made me smile.
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The thing with that example is that its origin is unclear. It could be:
2 - The human (who was not Kos) was very unfamiliar with viashino genders. That was the point.
3 - The viashino was not drunk. He/she was propositioning the human.
4 - The viashino was a prostitute. Sexual preferences probably didn't cross his/her mind.
5 - No combination of the above is possible.
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Anyone have a pet bird? How about a pet lizard?
Alright, now grab a random person on the street, and tell them to determine that pet's gender by sight.
9 times out of 10, they'll just look at you and either shrug, or try to get a look "under the hood," as it were.* The average person on the street will have problems determining the gender.
One would assume that the bird or lizard would have the same trouble figuring out the gender of the crazy mammals who keep putting them in that bleeping cage.
*EDIT: As if that would help
The writing style was excelent, probably the best since Brother War in my opinion. just the style though, I loved the opening and how Ari Marmell described the BLin Eternities. It was almost perfect
Out of it I have to also admit that I just don't like Tezzeret. Honestly I can't give you an exact reason just something about his character irks me.
Overall though I would give it 8 out of 10. It is no Brothers War/Planeswalker but it is the best book the current creative team has put out, period. Hopefully that bring in more authors like this or hire Ari to do more books because his style is great It was one of the main things that made me want to finisht he book in a day :-D
That's the part you were supposed to take away. He/she was a prostitute. As a prostitute, he/she gets paid to have sex with people. Judging by his/her propositioning a human male, it's likely that he/she has had some experience telling the difference between human genders. He/she was, after all, a prostitute.
Honestly? Probably a lot. Again, he/she is a prostitute. He/she doesn't exactly have much of a selection process is clientele.
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First off, I really did like the book. It was involved, it was detailed, and in particular, the conversation was well done. The one thing that irked me were I think four (But I may have missed more) pretty catchable typos that I doubt should have made it through the editing process. One in particular was "the he", which in context (and out, since an article needn't come before a pronoun) struck me as really odd.
I think that they did an excellent job of characterization. Tezzeret was every bit the power-hungry leader one would imagine the leader of the Consortium to be. I also liked the artificer aspect of him. Being of Esper, I hoped he wasn't just going to be some BAMF mage, and found the ideas of his creations to befit someone of his origin. Jace was well done, and I'm glad that by the end of the book he had begun to grow a spine. Because he wasn't exactly happy with some of the dirty work he was doing, it really does make a huge difference for him being a relatable character. I was reminded of my thoughts when playing Grand Theft Auto IV - Niko Bellic, the protagonist you assume the role of in the game, was not a big fan of getting involved with who he was getting involved with, for his move to the U.S. was to get away from the dirty work he was doing where he'd been, and is part of why the game's plot was much better than the previous installments.
Lastly, though, I think that Liliana has buckets of information to reveal. Easily the most intriguing character in the book in my eyes, I look forward to hearing about her beginnings, as well as another book hopefully showing Jace's plans being put into motion to free Liliana from her demonic pacts. It really would be pretty cool if those two wound up being together.
The word you're probably looking for is Saurophillic.
Probably because even though she did betray him, Jace still cares for her. Plus, it says at the end that he knows they'd meet again, and when he does he'll have her answer. He'd know how to free her from her bargain(s). He said he'd free her, and if he could love the woman hiding beneath all the lies, he thinks that they could probably begin again.
Anyway, she didn't give Bolas the Consortium back. Liliana planned to give Bolas the Consortium with a leader who was amenable to her, and, by extension, Bolas. She failed in that respect. The only way he would feel any need to uphold his end of the bargain is if she had succeeded in her part, or if she would, as she says, "trade one master for another." In the latter case, he'd feel inclined to protect his investment.
The fact that Bolas effectively got the Consortium back ANYWAY is beside the point. He obeys the letter of the agreement, if not the spirit.
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Someone once said that when you're in love, your IQ drops about 10 points. Yes, he's going to help free her, but he might not stay with her.
The exchange in question is on pages 345-346. "The plan, unless I rather woefully misunderstood, was to place someone in change you could influence on my behalf, if not for you to rule it yourself," Bolas says. Liliana did not hold up her end of the bargain. He wanted someone else in charge of the Consortium while he focused on other matters, most likely the Conflux.
He does give her another option (two, for that matter) where he would be willing to help her. "Offer me something else worth the trouble you bring me... and I will make you the same bargain.... Alternatively, you might swear allegiance to me. A planeswalker and necromancer of your power might prove useful indeed, and I would, of course, seek to protect my investment..." Yes, he'd be willing to help her, but only if she provided some net benefit to his effort to take out a quartet of demons. As is, she's probably only worth half a demon.
No, Tezz doesn't state his age, but considering the events that took place over the 5+ years described in the novel, and how long Tezz would have had to work at it to get the Consortium and keep it...
I'd estimate that Tezzeret is at least in his mid-30's, at most his late-40's.
He seems much older. He's a late teens, early twenties guy in The Seeker's Fall, it seems. In the novel he has usurped an organization from and become a rival of sorts with Nicol Bolas, that doesn't happen overnight. I'd say he's at least 10-20 years older in the novel.
Again, letter of the law, not the spirit. Bolas is not a nice dragon, nor particularly kind.
Bolas: "You didn't give me the Consortium, Lilly."
Liliana: "But you have Tezzeret's body!"
Bolas: "Did you get what was in his mind? Did you retrieve his body for me? Did you put a leader in place that would answer to me? No? Sorry, too bad. Good day."
Liliana: "But—"
Bolas: "I said GOOD DAY!"
Actually, he's described as a man with dull blonde hair, so I wouldn't put him past 50.
Not counting any anti-aging enhancements that Etherium grafting gives him.
Like the post above says, it doesn't saym uch more than he's a blond guy, really. There's no indicator of age. Again, though, he usurped a "trading" company from Nicol Bolas, and even knew magics that could keep Bolas himself at bay for a period of time in one encounter, so he's much more experienced than the Tezzeret we see in the webcomic. He isn't an old man with a beard/cane or anything like that which would tell us more.
I mean the guy was bitten, are planeswalkers vampire proof or what?
Maybe we will see a Black/blue Jace in Reborn:
Loyalty: 4 2bU
+1: Put the top 2 cards of target opponents their library into their graveyard
-3: Put target creature in opponents graveyard into play under your control.
-7: Target opponent removes his or her hand from the game. You may play those cards without paying their mana costs.
Dang, Ill take that.
What do you think?
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I dont know about Nicol Bolas. I mean, what IS the average life span of a Planeswalking Dragon? Maybe he's still a baby.