Q: So, we all know that Yawgmoth is the big bad Thran at the heart of the Weatherlight Saga. We've seen his Will, his Edict, his Bargain, his Agenda and more... but we seem to be pretty short on the big guy himself! So I guess I'm asking... is Yawgmoth actually depicted on any cards?
–David, Mercer Island, WA, USA
A: From Monty Ashley, Magic Web Team:
Actually, he is. Wait, is Yawgmoth a "he"? Let's go with "it" is, just in case. I present you with a look at raw, unfiltered Yawgmoth:
Of course, that means that Yawgmoth also appears on the Seventh Edition version:
At first, I wasn't sure whether Yawgmoth Demon was the Yawgmoth, or maybe just "a demon of Yawgmoth". But here's the art description for the Ninth Edition version, which seems to settle the question pretty definitively:
Color: Black
Location: Phyrexia
Action: Show Yawgmoth, who is an enormous flying abomination of Phyrexian origin (a necro-tech setting). It should have two horns and wings, but the rest is up to you. Should be a horrifying flesh/metal hybrid.
So there you go! Note that this doesn't mean that Yawgmoth's full name is "Yawgmoth Demon". He's not related to Maxwell Demon, the on-stage persona of Brian Slade in Todd Haynes's glam rock movie Velvet Goldmine, is what I'm trying to say.
I guess this deserves the biggest facepalm so far. Why the heck they don't let these questions to be answered by people that actually know what they are talking about....In this case, even the man who did the art description did not know.
I am putting it here just because the newcomers might be confused by this Ask Wizards answer...
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I agree- I think the answer was wrong in in the first place, then leads the questioner around.
I don't think any of those are actual depictions of Yawgmoth himself, just his demons, despite the art description. Based on what's given, perhaps when they first made the card, they intended for the original Yawgmoth to just be one baddie among many from Phyrexia. It was only later when the storylines were really being fixed and filled out that he was made the god of that hellish plane.
As a god, remember he was beyond the power of even old planeswalkers like Urza...
They should really consider explaining retcons when they answer art and story questions.
This is utter gob****e. If it was yawgmoth, it would be a badass legend, not a wussy regular demon.
It's amazing that this nonce knew the correct answer and yet went on to change his mind because of some shoddy art description.
We all know Serra Angel doesn't represent Serra, the planeswalker, why on earth should Yawgmoth Demon represent Yawgmoth in all his glory when the cards are pretty much exact parallels in terms of flavour...
I like how he used the more recent description to show thats its Yawgmoth
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That is so retarded. Ridiculous. It's bad to see that the art description was done by someone who didn't know what they were talking about, but why on earth would you have a question like this answered by someone from the freaking web team, instead of someone who would have a clue of what they're talking about, like someone from Creative. There is no excusing a screw-up of this magnitude.
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Was it too much to read the books and reply that he's on the background of Last stand, or that he's the "Hanna" of Jilt, or all the people in the stands of Phyrexian Arena?
Yes, it's way too much to ask of them. Asking people to read a 250 page novel? Preposterous!
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It's bad to see that the art description was done by someone who didn't know what they were talking about, but why on earth would you have a question like this answered by someone from the freaking web team, instead of someone who would have a clue of what they're talking about, like someone from Creative.
Actually, I think the MagictheGathering.com web team is the Creative team. Look at Beyer. He writes code, and has never written a novel. Let's let him write the flagship novel of our new line. Argh.
The thing that really pisses me off about this is that it was such an easy mistake to make, but it's one of those mistakes that's going to crop up every couple of months. There are lots of posts here and there asking what Yawgmoth looked like, and if there were any cards depicting him. Now some impressionable young reader is going to take his mistake as canon and point to that Ask Wizards until the end of time.
And another thing: Don't they have someone read these things and check them for accuracy, or does some code junkie get to answer it with no one's approval? Why didn't Dommermuth answer this one? Why not Beyer? And if both of them were busy and they decided to have this guy answer it, why didn't someone check his answer to make sure it was correct?
So freaking silly.
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The line "Action: Show Yawgmoth, who is an enormous flying abomination" was simply shorthand. At no time was I ever asked by the art director to actually paint Yawgmoth. it was clear that this was just one of the demons that carry his name honorificly.
After all, if Yawgmoth could be represented by the Yawgmoth Demon card he would have been squished by Urza in an instant.
I think that's one occasion when the web team should have passed that question to the story team.
I hope that's not the sound of someone's head rolling among the Web Team...
A little off-topic here, but I somehow feel the quality of the site went down a bit when it changed. It got visually prettier, but became more of a hassle to navigate through. Some of the recent articles seem to lack... inspiration or vigor. And now a goof-up like this.
The response is totally incorrect, the creative team didn't get a chance to review it before it went live, and I will toss Monty into the Death Pits when he gets back from Berlin.
We'll publish a correction soon.
Let me try to explain a little more: The Ninth Edition card concept read, "This creature is an enormous flying abomination of Phyrexian origin," but when the concept got moved over to art description, the art director changed it to, "Show Yawgmoth, who is an enormous flying abomination of Phyrexian origin." I assume that the art director just wanted to make sure that the demon ended up looking super-cool, and thought that maybe if we told the illustrator it was Yawgmoth himself, we might get a better result. But no, the card was never intended to represent Yawgmoth himself. And the illustration job went to Pete, who knew better than to try to represent the Father of Machines anyway.
Solved, Monty will be tortured by Yawgmoth himself for his crime.
Would it hurt to add more to the discussion and not use a two-word one liner? I know that you are answering a question (and correctly, thank you for it), but I have to reward you with an warning for spam.
That just shows how disastrous those things can be (I forgot the word for it, but it's referring to the action of saying something everyone knows it's false [lying?] to get a desired effect [tricking?]). Who did that? Was it Jeremy Cranford? And how would Pete Venters, one of the artists who's been around the longest in the game just... Nevermind, I guess it's someone else's fault.
I hope they never do something like this again.
(11th edition, art description for Serra Angel: "Show Serra, a powerful....")
And did you notice that Monty Ashley had the gonads to show his face again and post the answer to the next Ask Wizards?
Brady said he's in Berlin, so he probably answered the current Ask Wizards a couple of weeks ago and set it to display on the page today. So, yes, I suppose that means it's possible we'll see his brilliant storyline knowledge in the future.
Seriously, I know Dommermuth and Beyer have to be busy, but can't someone check these things for accuracy? Although Beyer did say that Urza fought Gerrard in Apocalypse to protect his brother Mishra. So maybe just Dommermuth?
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Meh. He should've wielded a double bladed lightsaber. You get added damage benefits and there really aren't that many good crystals to put with it anyway. Plus the speed bonus is amazing.
Brady said he's in Berlin, so he probably answered the current Ask Wizards a couple of weeks ago and set it to display on the page today. So, yes, I suppose that means it's possible we'll see his brilliant storyline knowledge in the future.
Seriously, I know Dommermuth and Beyer have to be busy, but can't someone check these things for accuracy? Although Beyer did say that Urza fought Gerrard in Apocalypse to protect his brother Mishra. So maybe just Dommermuth?
I kinda doubt it granted on how much people reacted to it.
In any case, Monty's mistake was taking things in at face value, and given that the art description said what it said, anyone without too much storyline knowledge could make the same mistake. Also, hasn't yawgie as a character been dead for 8 real life years?
creature cards have shown legends as their focus and not been legendary, but this hasn't happened since invasion block, which ninth was much much after.
Aside: didn't MaCa boach whatever Coldeye's kid's father at some point?
This kinda thing has happened before, but not in such an obvious way.
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The guy who found the new art for shock and other 10th edition cards on the wizards site.
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I remember reading about art descriptions for artists, one from alpha was really funny. I think it was Lord of the pit, and the art direction was simply "A Balrog". According to Monty's Logic, The current lord of the pit is simply another balrog.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
In any case, Monty's mistake was taking things in at face value, and given that the art description said what it said, anyone without too much storyline knowledge could make the same mistake.
I agree, but there's two points that annoy me:
1 - He shouldn't have answered the question to begin with.
2 - We'll (I'll) be hearing about this from people who took his answer as fact for a long, long time.
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imo, if they could come up with a comprehensive guide of rules, they should also have a canonical bible on all their characters and storylines.
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The problem with that is that people don't like retcons for some reason, and that there is no particular reason that wizards should do it versus anyother, and that wizards should make it nice enough to realease it.
The comp rules is needed for the game to work out. A canon book isn't.
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The guy who found the new art for shock and other 10th edition cards on the wizards site.
Butcher of Words.
I guess this deserves the biggest facepalm so far. Why the heck they don't let these questions to be answered by people that actually know what they are talking about....In this case, even the man who did the art description did not know.
I am putting it here just because the newcomers might be confused by this Ask Wizards answer...
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
If it is, facepalm the person who told him to draw this.
If it's not true, facepalm him anyway.
Yawgmoth is too cool for school, and giving him such a lame card is just terrible.
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I don't think any of those are actual depictions of Yawgmoth himself, just his demons, despite the art description. Based on what's given, perhaps when they first made the card, they intended for the original Yawgmoth to just be one baddie among many from Phyrexia. It was only later when the storylines were really being fixed and filled out that he was made the god of that hellish plane.
As a god, remember he was beyond the power of even old planeswalkers like Urza...
They should really consider explaining retcons when they answer art and story questions.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=118447&page=6
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=130479&page=3
I like how he used the more recent description to show thats its Yawgmoth
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Actually, I think the MagictheGathering.com web team is the Creative team. Look at Beyer. He writes code, and has never written a novel. Let's let him write the flagship novel of our new line. Argh.
The thing that really pisses me off about this is that it was such an easy mistake to make, but it's one of those mistakes that's going to crop up every couple of months. There are lots of posts here and there asking what Yawgmoth looked like, and if there were any cards depicting him. Now some impressionable young reader is going to take his mistake as canon and point to that Ask Wizards until the end of time.
And another thing: Don't they have someone read these things and check them for accuracy, or does some code junkie get to answer it with no one's approval? Why didn't Dommermuth answer this one? Why not Beyer? And if both of them were busy and they decided to have this guy answer it, why didn't someone check his answer to make sure it was correct?
So freaking silly.
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Ouch! Feedback from the source himself!
I hope that's not the sound of someone's head rolling among the Web Team...
A little off-topic here, but I somehow feel the quality of the site went down a bit when it changed. It got visually prettier, but became more of a hassle to navigate through. Some of the recent articles seem to lack... inspiration or vigor. And now a goof-up like this.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=118447&page=6
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=130479&page=3
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In other thoughts,
at least the mess-up got us new infomation on stuff.
* sawbladex hoards the infomation
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Would it hurt to add more to the discussion and not use a two-word one liner? I know that you are answering a question (and correctly, thank you for it), but I have to reward you with an warning for spam.
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I hope they never do something like this again.
(11th edition, art description for Serra Angel: "Show Serra, a powerful....")
And did you notice that Monty Ashley had the gonads to show his face again and post the answer to the next Ask Wizards?
I like 4/4s for 7.
Seriously, I know Dommermuth and Beyer have to be busy, but can't someone check these things for accuracy? Although Beyer did say that Urza fought Gerrard in Apocalypse to protect his brother Mishra. So maybe just Dommermuth?
Meh. He should've wielded a double bladed lightsaber. You get added damage benefits and there really aren't that many good crystals to put with it anyway. Plus the speed bonus is amazing.
... Probably should get out more.
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I kinda doubt it granted on how much people reacted to it.
In any case, Monty's mistake was taking things in at face value, and given that the art description said what it said, anyone without too much storyline knowledge could make the same mistake. Also, hasn't yawgie as a character been dead for 8 real life years?
creature cards have shown legends as their focus and not been legendary, but this hasn't happened since invasion block, which ninth was much much after.
Aside: didn't MaCa boach whatever Coldeye's kid's father at some point?
This kinda thing has happened before, but not in such an obvious way.
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Yagmoth demon is a 6/6 creature from antiquites.
I remember reading about art descriptions for artists, one from alpha was really funny. I think it was Lord of the pit, and the art direction was simply "A Balrog". According to Monty's Logic, The current lord of the pit is simply another balrog.
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I agree, but there's two points that annoy me:
1 - He shouldn't have answered the question to begin with.
2 - We'll (I'll) be hearing about this from people who took his answer as fact for a long, long time.
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"Yes."
"So shouldn't we—"
"No."
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The comp rules is needed for the game to work out. A canon book isn't.
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I'm not sure what's up with the pic, but that was published in Inquest just before Apocalypse. I have that magazine sitting at home in a storage box.
Probably a style guide image that was never referred to by a card artist.
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