Player A has a Willbreaker on the battlefield and is in control of a creature owned by player B. Player B casts a Lightning Javelin to destroy Willbreaker and get his creature back. Player A responds with an Essence Flux.
Player B claims he gets his creature back the moment Willbreaker is exiled and his Javelin kills it because Willbreaker is back on the battlefield before Javelin resolves.
Player A claims Willbreaker is not destroyed because when it is exiled it stops being a target for the Javelin and he gets to keep the creature in control because when state based effects are checked Willbreaker is back on the battlefield and it works as if it never has left.
As soon as willbreaker leaves the battlefield for whatever reason the duration of its control change ability ends so Player B is going to get his creature back. But again as soon as the willbreaker leaves the battlefield and returns it is a new game object and the lightning javelin will lose its target.
The final position is that Player B will get his creature back, the lightning javelin is countered on resolution due to not having a target and there will be a new triggered ability from willbreaker on the stack allowing Player A to steal one of Player Bs creatures.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
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I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
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As soon as willbreaker leaves the battlefield for whatever reason the duration of its control change ability ends so Player B is going to get his creature back. But again as soon as the willbreaker leaves the battlefield and returns it is a new game object and the lightning javelin will lose its target.
The final position is that Player B will get his creature back, the lightning javelin is countered on resolution due to not having a target
Up to here I'm with you.
there will be a new triggered ability from willbreaker on the stack allowing Player A to steal one of Player Bs creatures.
Where does that triggered ability come from? Could it be you incorrectly assumed Willbreaker triggers on entering the battlefield? The trigger condition is actually more involved and requires a targeted spell controlled by the same player which in the given scenario does not exist.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
...and there will be a new triggered ability from willbreaker on the stack allowing Player A to steal one of Player Bs creatures.
Hmmm, I don't see any spell or ability targeting one of Player's B creatures in the scenario after Willbreaker has returned from exile... You seem to think Willbreaker steals a creature with an enter-the-battlefield ability, that isn't the case.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
The final position is that Player B will get his creature back, the lightning javelin is countered on resolution due to not having a target and there will be a new triggered ability from willbreaker on the stack allowing Player A to steal one of Player Bs creatures.
There's nothing in OP's scenario that triggers Willbreaker's ability.
The final position is that Player B will get his creature back, the lightning javelin is countered on resolution due to not having a target and there will be a new triggered ability from willbreaker on the stack allowing Player A to steal one of Player Bs creatures.
There's nothing in OP's scenario that triggers Willbreaker's ability.
Yeah, I was wondering about that final comment too, but everything else makes sense to me.
There is an additional triggered ability from Willbreaker, but it results from Essence Flux being cast. Willbreaker's controller will be able to use this trigger to steal another creature momentarily. However, this trigger goes onto the stack on top of everything else and will resolve before Essence Flux does, so the other creature stolen (if any) will also be returned when Willbreaker leaves the battlefield. This may be relevant if the player is able to do something with the creature during the brief window in which they control it (e.g., sacrifice it to some effect) or if the control change itself causes something to happen (e.g. removing an attacking creature from combat) but under most circumstances it won't be relevant to the scenario.
There is an additional triggered ability from Willbreaker, but it results from Essence Flux being cast. Willbreaker's controller will be able to use this trigger to steal another creature momentarily. However, this trigger goes onto the stack on top of everything else and will resolve before Essence Flux does, so the other creature stolen (if any) will also be returned when Willbreaker leaves the battlefield. This may be relevant if the player is able to do something with the creature during the brief window in which they control it (e.g., sacrifice it to some effect) or if the control change itself causes something to happen (e.g. removing an attacking creature from combat) but under most circumstances it won't be relevant to the scenario.
Not true. Essence Flux in this scenario is targeting Willbreaker. For Will to trigger it has to target an opponent's creature.
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Player A has a Willbreaker on the battlefield and is in control of a creature owned by player B. Player B casts a Lightning Javelin to destroy Willbreaker and get his creature back. Player A responds with an Essence Flux.
Player B claims he gets his creature back the moment Willbreaker is exiled and his Javelin kills it because Willbreaker is back on the battlefield before Javelin resolves.
Player A claims Willbreaker is not destroyed because when it is exiled it stops being a target for the Javelin and he gets to keep the creature in control because when state based effects are checked Willbreaker is back on the battlefield and it works as if it never has left.
Which player is right?
As soon as willbreaker leaves the battlefield for whatever reason the duration of its control change ability ends so Player B is going to get his creature back. But again as soon as the willbreaker leaves the battlefield and returns it is a new game object and the lightning javelin will lose its target.
The final position is that Player B will get his creature back, the lightning javelin is countered on resolution due to not having a target and there will be a new triggered ability from willbreaker on the stack allowing Player A to steal one of Player Bs creatures.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
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Up to here I'm with you.
Where does that triggered ability come from? Could it be you incorrectly assumed Willbreaker triggers on entering the battlefield? The trigger condition is actually more involved and requires a targeted spell controlled by the same player which in the given scenario does not exist.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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There's nothing in OP's scenario that triggers Willbreaker's ability.
Yeah, I was wondering about that final comment too, but everything else makes sense to me.
Thank you all for the quick replies.
There is an additional triggered ability from Willbreaker, but it results from Essence Flux being cast. Willbreaker's controller will be able to use this trigger to steal another creature momentarily. However, this trigger goes onto the stack on top of everything else and will resolve before Essence Flux does, so the other creature stolen (if any) will also be returned when Willbreaker leaves the battlefield. This may be relevant if the player is able to do something with the creature during the brief window in which they control it (e.g., sacrifice it to some effect) or if the control change itself causes something to happen (e.g. removing an attacking creature from combat) but under most circumstances it won't be relevant to the scenario.Edit: Disregard, failure to RTFC.
Not true.
Essence Flux in this scenario is targeting Willbreaker. For Will to trigger it has to target an opponent's creature.