I cast a Flametongue Kavu. It deals 4 damage to target creature when it enters the battlefield. If there are no creatures on the battlefield, it deals the 4 damage to itself.
This is what I was sure about so far, but yesterday I watched a video about MTGO and when a player casted a creature with an ETB effect, the ETB effect went on stack on top of that creature. It resolved before the creature entered the battlefield.
How can a Flametongue Kavu deal 4 damage to itself when it is still on the stack?
The Kavu isn't still on the stack when it's ability resolves - it's on the battlefield and must do 4 damage to itself if it's the only creature on the battlefield.
Without knowing what the card on MTGO was (and assuming it wasn't a bug), it's impossible to say - maybe the player cast a creature with a "When you cast CARDNAME..." trigger, which would go on the stack on top of the creature spell. (For example, if you somehow cast Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and there were no permanents on the battlefield at all, it could NOT target itself with its first ability. Granted, quite contrived, but you get the point.)
I don't know which card it was, but I'm sure that it was an ETB effect and not an "When you cast CARDNAME" effect.
So, the creature is on the stack, it resolves, goes on the battlefield and then the ETB effect goes on the stack?
Yes, provided it's worded "when this enters the battlefield" and not "as this enters the battlefield" (the latter is not a triggered ability but a replacement effect that modifies the event of the creature entering; if it requires a choice, that happens before the creature is actually on the battlefield). If that really was a triggered ability, I would be quite surprised, I've never heard of such a bug being possible. If the trigger event is the creature entering the battlefield, that should be pretty easy to program, that trigger event is on hundreds and hundreds of cards. Maybe one was misprogrammed as a cast trigger. Without you identifying the card in question, we can't help you more than that.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
The real question was if the ETB effect goes on top of the creature spell or on a new stack after the creature spell resolved, and now I know for sure.
That being said, I watched the video in bed and was very sleepy, so I may saw it wrong.
Thanks, guys!
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I cast a Flametongue Kavu. It deals 4 damage to target creature when it enters the battlefield. If there are no creatures on the battlefield, it deals the 4 damage to itself.
This is what I was sure about so far, but yesterday I watched a video about MTGO and when a player casted a creature with an ETB effect, the ETB effect went on stack on top of that creature. It resolved before the creature entered the battlefield.
How can a Flametongue Kavu deal 4 damage to itself when it is still on the stack?
Without knowing what the card on MTGO was (and assuming it wasn't a bug), it's impossible to say - maybe the player cast a creature with a "When you cast CARDNAME..." trigger, which would go on the stack on top of the creature spell. (For example, if you somehow cast Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and there were no permanents on the battlefield at all, it could NOT target itself with its first ability. Granted, quite contrived, but you get the point.)
So, the creature is on the stack, it resolves, goes on the battlefield and then the ETB effect goes on the stack?
The real question was if the ETB effect goes on top of the creature spell or on a new stack after the creature spell resolved, and now I know for sure.
That being said, I watched the video in bed and was very sleepy, so I may saw it wrong.
Thanks, guys!