So I've got a question regarding the above mentioned ability, like you might see on Alesha, who smiles at death, now I'm getting grief from one of my fellow casual players that "whenever creature attacks" abilities trigger. I'm really sure they don't, but there was no judge on hand at the store. As far as I know, only things with "enters the battlefield" trigger. At least that's what I had been building a deck around. So Alesha brings back say Banisher Priest the enters the battlefield trigger...um triggers, and I'm up a creature and they are down one. Casual is so much fun
So, who is right? Me or my friend? (There is a bottle of captain morgan at stake here!)
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The willow knows what the storm does not: that the power to endure harm outlives the power to inflict it.
You're correct. Attack triggers happen when you declare attackers, you've already declared attackers since Alesha triggered.
508.2a Abilities that trigger on a creature attacking trigger only at the point the creature is declared as an attacker. They will not trigger if a creature attacks and then that creature’s characteristics change to match the ability’s trigger condition.
Example: A permanent has the ability “Whenever a green creature attacks, destroy that creature at end of combat.” If a blue creature attacks and is later turned green, the ability will not trigger.
The first part is the relevant one. No declaration = no trigger
Awesome! I just won a bottle of Captain Morgan! ^.^ Just one other question. As I understand it, if a creature that is put into play in that fashion has Raid, that ability should trigger based on the fact that other creatures have been declared as attackers, correct?
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The willow knows what the storm does not: that the power to endure harm outlives the power to inflict it.
Awesome! I just won a bottle of Captain Morgan! ^.^ Just one other question. As I understand it, if a creature that is put into play in that fashion has Raid, that ability should trigger based on the fact that other creatures have been declared as attackers, correct?
Yes! I should hope so too, as Raid was the mechanic for Alesha's clan in Tarkir.
I think this rule is a little more relevant to the original question, but the answer is still the same:
508.4. If a creature is put onto the battlefield attacking, its controller chooses which defending player or
which planeswalker a defending player controls it’s attacking as it enters the battlefield (unless the
effect that put it onto the battlefield specifies what it’s attacking). Such creatures are “attacking”
but, for the purposes of trigger events and effects, they never “attacked.”
Just one other question. As I understand it, if a creature that is put into play in that fashion has Raid, that ability should trigger based on the fact that other creatures have been declared as attackers, correct?
"Raid" isn't an ability; appearing on the card has no significance to the rules.
207.2. The text box may also contain italicized text that has no game function.
207.2c An ability word appears in italics at the beginning of some abilities. Ability words are
similar to keywords in that they tie together cards that have similar functionality, but they have
no special rules meaning and no individual entries in the Comprehensive Rules. The ability
words are battalion, bloodrush, channel, chroma, cohort, constellation, converge, domain,
fateful hour, ferocious, formidable, grandeur, hellbent, heroic, imprint, inspired, join forces,
kinship, landfall, lieutenant, metalcraft, morbid, parley, radiance, raid, rally, spell mastery,
strive, sweep, tempting offer, threshold, and will of the council.
It would depend on the text of the actual ability. Examples:
"When Bellowing Saddlebrute enters the battlefield, you lose 4 life unless you attacked with a creature this turn."
This ability triggers regardless of whether you attacked with a creature this turn. If you attacked (with Alesha), that will keep you from losing 4 life when the ability resolves.
"When Mardu Hordechief enters the battlefield, if you attacked with a creature this turn, put a 1/1 white Warrior creature token onto the battlefield."
If you attacked (with Alesha) this turn, the ability would trigger and give you a token as described.
"War-Name Aspirant enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if you attacked with a creature this turn."
This static ability never triggers, but it would modify the creature's entry if you attacked (with Alesha).
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
I apologize, could you explain the War-Name Aspirant ruling? Does it come into play as a 2/1, and since the raid trigger applied, it should then get the +1/+1 counter correct? I was never the best with some of the more tricky rules.
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The willow knows what the storm does not: that the power to endure harm outlives the power to inflict it.
I apologize, could you explain the War-Name Aspirant ruling? Does it come into play as a 2/1, and since the raid trigger applied, it should then get the +1/+1 counter correct? I was never the best with some of the more tricky rules.
Yes, Aspirant's raid ability works, it enters with a +1/+1 counter. Argus Panoptes was not saying otherwise, he was just pointing out the fact that Aspirant's ability is not a triggered ability, he was trying to show you that your terminology is slightly wrong. Raid is not an ability in-and-of-itself, it's an ability word, just a moniker with no rules meaning that's used to link different kinds of abilities together thematically. The full ability is always written out after the dash. So you can't always say 'Raid trigger', because some Raid abilities, like Aspirant's, are something else than a trigger (here it's a static ability with a replacement effect that modifies the event of Aspirant entering, to be technical).
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
Does it come into play as a 2/1, and since the raid trigger applied, it should then get the +1/+1 counter correct?
There is no "trigger", so there isn't any "then". It's a 3/2 from the moment it enters the battlefield, because that's when it has the +1/+1 counter.
To have a "raid trigger", it would have to say something like "When War-Name Aspirant enters the battlefield, if you attacked with a creature this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on War-Name Aspirant."
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
So I've got a question regarding the above mentioned ability, like you might see on Alesha, who smiles at death, now I'm getting grief from one of my fellow casual players that "whenever creature attacks" abilities trigger. I'm really sure they don't, but there was no judge on hand at the store. As far as I know, only things with "enters the battlefield" trigger. At least that's what I had been building a deck around. So Alesha brings back say Banisher Priest the enters the battlefield trigger...um triggers, and I'm up a creature and they are down one. Casual is so much fun
So, who is right? Me or my friend? (There is a bottle of captain morgan at stake here!)
508.2a Abilities that trigger on a creature attacking trigger only at the point the creature is declared as an attacker. They will not trigger if a creature attacks and then that creature’s characteristics change to match the ability’s trigger condition.
Example: A permanent has the ability “Whenever a green creature attacks, destroy that creature at end of combat.” If a blue creature attacks and is later turned green, the ability will not trigger.
The first part is the relevant one. No declaration = no trigger
Yes! I should hope so too, as Raid was the mechanic for Alesha's clan in Tarkir.
"Raid" isn't an ability; appearing on the card has no significance to the rules.
It would depend on the text of the actual ability. Examples:
To have a "raid trigger", it would have to say something like "When War-Name Aspirant enters the battlefield, if you attacked with a creature this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on War-Name Aspirant."