If an effect causes a player to gain life or lose life, that player’s life total is adjusted accordingly.
I am curious if that works as a definition, i.e. a player gains and/or loses life when their life total is adjusted. How does that work if it is simultaneous? For example, if I equip a prodigal sorcerer with a loxodon warhammer, and tap it to deal 1 damage to myself, what exactly happens? I have taken damage, so angelheart vial would trigger, but would an opponent be able to cast Rakdos, Lord of Riots? Would Karlov of the Ghost Council trigger? What if it is two different sources - a player attacks me with 2 creatures one is 4 power, my aforementioned sorcerer blocks the other, when damage is done I am simultaneously gaining and losing 4 life and my life total doesn't get adjusted in that process. What if there is one source but an implied time line, like targeting myself with my own drain style effect (can't think of a card off hand)? When state based effects are being checked my life total is always the same, do the triggers happen?
Well, you take 1 damage from the Prodigal Sorcerer with lifelink, which has the results of you simultaneously losing 1 life and gaining 1 life. So yes, you have lost life (Rakdos), and you have gained life (Karlov), as well as having taken damage, despite the net result ending with you at the same life total after as before.
In the case where you're attacked, you take 4 damage from the unblocked creature at the same time as Prodigal Sorcerer deals its 4 damage, so the results for you are that you lose 4 life and gain 4 life simultaneously, which has the same implications.
If you Drain Life yourself for some amount of damage, it's similar, though not simultaneous. You first take damage (causing you to lose that much life), then you gain life. It has the same implications for triggered abilities, in that you've taken damage, lost life and gained life. Also, it's not really the pertinent issue, but simultaneity and state-based action checks don't have anything to do with whether an ability triggers; abilities can and do trigger during the resolution of spells or abilities (though they're not put on the stack until after the spell/ability is finished resolving).
To answer your overarching question, no, 118.3 isn't a definition of what it means to lose or gain life; it's a description of what those things cause. Gaining life causes your life total to be adjusted upward; losing it causes your life total to be adjusted downward. It's not saying that having your life total adjusted signals to the game that you have gained or lost life; that's looking at it backward.
No, you cannot define "gain life" and "lose life" this way. To "gain life" means to increase your life total, to "lose life" means to decrease your life total. If both happen at the same time (like a source with lifelink you control dealing damage to you), you simultantously gain and lose life. Your life total effectively doesn't change, but that doesn't negate the fact, that you gained and lost life. All triggers that care about either trigger. You opponent can cast Rakdos, Lord of Riots (that card's own casting restriction is fulfilled).
Awesome. Thank you for explaining it. So the rule is more a description of order of events than anything else, unrelated to the terms gain or lose. Would it be safe to say that those are the base line, anytime it references gaining life that is for sure happening, despite what else happens and same for losing?
Unlike words like "target", "protection", or "trample", the rulebook has no definition for "gaining" and "losing" life. Therefore, the only definition that can be used is the standard English definition.
701.1. Most actions described in a card’s rules text use the standard English definitions of the verbs
within, but some specialized verbs are used whose meanings may not be clear. These “keywords”
are game terms; sometimes reminder text summarizes their meanings.
Setting aside complications from lifelink, a change in your life total from 2 to 4 is a gain of 2 life, regardless of whether the effect read
You gain 2 life.
Your life total becomes 4.
Your life total becomes (some value that happens to be 4 at the moment).
Double your life total.
Exchange your life total with (some value that happens to be 4 at the moment).
Square your life total.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
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I am curious if that works as a definition, i.e. a player gains and/or loses life when their life total is adjusted. How does that work if it is simultaneous? For example, if I equip a prodigal sorcerer with a loxodon warhammer, and tap it to deal 1 damage to myself, what exactly happens? I have taken damage, so angelheart vial would trigger, but would an opponent be able to cast Rakdos, Lord of Riots? Would Karlov of the Ghost Council trigger? What if it is two different sources - a player attacks me with 2 creatures one is 4 power, my aforementioned sorcerer blocks the other, when damage is done I am simultaneously gaining and losing 4 life and my life total doesn't get adjusted in that process. What if there is one source but an implied time line, like targeting myself with my own drain style effect (can't think of a card off hand)? When state based effects are being checked my life total is always the same, do the triggers happen?
In the case where you're attacked, you take 4 damage from the unblocked creature at the same time as Prodigal Sorcerer deals its 4 damage, so the results for you are that you lose 4 life and gain 4 life simultaneously, which has the same implications.
If you Drain Life yourself for some amount of damage, it's similar, though not simultaneous. You first take damage (causing you to lose that much life), then you gain life. It has the same implications for triggered abilities, in that you've taken damage, lost life and gained life. Also, it's not really the pertinent issue, but simultaneity and state-based action checks don't have anything to do with whether an ability triggers; abilities can and do trigger during the resolution of spells or abilities (though they're not put on the stack until after the spell/ability is finished resolving).
To answer your overarching question, no, 118.3 isn't a definition of what it means to lose or gain life; it's a description of what those things cause. Gaining life causes your life total to be adjusted upward; losing it causes your life total to be adjusted downward. It's not saying that having your life total adjusted signals to the game that you have gained or lost life; that's looking at it backward.
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Setting aside complications from lifelink, a change in your life total from 2 to 4 is a gain of 2 life, regardless of whether the effect read