She enters, and IMMEDIATELY you have to get rid of one of your Linvalas. Then both ETB triggers happen and since Nathan has both more creatures and more life than Adam, both of her triggers go on the stack and get resolved.
As Linvala resolves, it enters the battlefield, which is the trigger event for both its abilities. Immediately after Linvala enters the battlefield, the intervening "if" clauses for both events are checked (603.4). At this time, only the condition for the life gain trigger is true, so that ability triggers (it does not go on the stack yet). Then Linvala is done resolving and state-based actions are checked (116.5). Adam chooses one of the Linvalas to put into the graveyard. Then the life gain triggered ability goes on the stack.
603.4. A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].”When
the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers
only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it
resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does
nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening
‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a
card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
At the time the trigger condition is checked (right after the Linvala spell puts her on the battlefield) you control 3 creatures (two Linvalas and an angel token), same as your opponent, so the second triggered ability doesn't trigger. Then state based actions send one of the Linvalas to the graveyard (legend rule).
603.4. A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].”When
the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers
only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it
resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does
nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening
‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a
card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
At the time the trigger condition is checked (right after the Linvala spell puts her on the battlefield) you control 3 creatures (two Linvalas and an angel token), same as your opponent, so the second triggered ability doesn't trigger. Then state based actions send one of the Linvalas to the graveyard (legend rule).
Objection!
704. State-Based Actions
704.1. State-based actions are game actions that happen automatically whenever certain conditions
(listed below) are met. State-based actions don’t use the stack.
704.5k If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player
chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the
“legend rule.”
So the second Linvala enters the battlefield. State based actions occur immediately, as they do not use the stack. Assuming the old one is done away with, the new one enters the battlefield and the trigger goes off, netting 5 life and the 3/3.
They don't use the stack, but they don't stop things from checking trigger conditions. They don't go on the stack until after the SBA take one off the field, but the trigger does not wait until after SBA to check for a condition.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
To Boyachi , Rezz is right.
When the 2nd Linvala enters the field , its trigger ability will trigger immediatly and autonomicaly if the trigger condition is met.
Linvala both triggered abilities are "intervening if clause" triggered ability , so after 2nd Linvala entered the field = the Game see you and your opponent both control 3 creatures = Linvala's second triggered ability doesn't trigger but the first triggered ability does.
Then SBA is checked , you send one Linvala to the graveyard.
Then you put the ability on the stack , this ability exists and resolves independently no matter which Linvala went to the grave.
When this ability goes to resolve = it will check again the "if clause condition" still be true (an opponent has more life than you).
Please note that , triggered ability can trigger any time the trigger condition is met , no matter if no player get priority or not in that time. It can even trigger during spell/ability resolution.
But the triggered ability that already trigger will be put on the stack at next time player get priority. And before player get priority , SBA will be checked.
In the other hand , SBA will not be checked during spell/ability resolution.
That means , Triggered ability can trigger before SBA is checked , but triggered ability will be put on the stack after SBA is checked.
603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[Trigger condition], [effect],” and begin with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” They can also be expressed as “[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect].”
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.
603.2a Because they aren’t cast or activated, triggered abilities can trigger even when it isn’t legal to cast spells and activate abilities. Effects that prevent abilities from being activated don’t affect them.
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
704.4. Unlike triggered abilities, state-based actions pay no attention to what happens during the resolution of a spell or ability.
704. State-Based Actions
704.1. State-based actions are game actions that happen automatically whenever certain conditions
(listed below) are met. State-based actions don’t use the stack.
704.5k If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player
chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the
“legend rule.”
So the second Linvala enters the battlefield. State based actions occur immediately, as they do not use the stack. Assuming the old one is done away with, the new one enters the battlefield and the trigger goes off, netting 5 life and the 3/3.
This is where you are incorrect. Yes, state-based actions don't use the stack, but they don't happen immediately, they actually happen at a very specific set of times:
Quote from CR »
704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event.
State-based actions are only performed when a player would receive priority, which happens after the Linvala resolves, enters the battlefield, and its trigger condition is checked.
A situation similar to this happened at our last tournament:
Adam is at 1 life, controls a Linvala, the Preserver and a 3/3 Angel token.
Nathan is at 10 life and controls 3 Runeclaw Bears.
Adam casts another Linvala, the Preserver. It resolves. What happens?
Thanks!
As Linvala resolves, it enters the battlefield, which is the trigger event for both its abilities. Immediately after Linvala enters the battlefield, the intervening "if" clauses for both events are checked (603.4). At this time, only the condition for the life gain trigger is true, so that ability triggers (it does not go on the stack yet). Then Linvala is done resolving and state-based actions are checked (116.5). Adam chooses one of the Linvalas to put into the graveyard. Then the life gain triggered ability goes on the stack.
At the time the trigger condition is checked (right after the Linvala spell puts her on the battlefield) you control 3 creatures (two Linvalas and an angel token), same as your opponent, so the second triggered ability doesn't trigger. Then state based actions send one of the Linvalas to the graveyard (legend rule).
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
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Objection!
704. State-Based Actions
704.1. State-based actions are game actions that happen automatically whenever certain conditions
(listed below) are met. State-based actions don’t use the stack.
704.5k If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player
chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the
“legend rule.”
So the second Linvala enters the battlefield. State based actions occur immediately, as they do not use the stack. Assuming the old one is done away with, the new one enters the battlefield and the trigger goes off, netting 5 life and the 3/3.
When the 2nd Linvala enters the field , its trigger ability will trigger immediatly and autonomicaly if the trigger condition is met.
Linvala both triggered abilities are "intervening if clause" triggered ability , so after 2nd Linvala entered the field = the Game see you and your opponent both control 3 creatures = Linvala's second triggered ability doesn't trigger but the first triggered ability does.
Then SBA is checked , you send one Linvala to the graveyard.
Then you put the ability on the stack , this ability exists and resolves independently no matter which Linvala went to the grave.
When this ability goes to resolve = it will check again the "if clause condition" still be true (an opponent has more life than you).
Please note that , triggered ability can trigger any time the trigger condition is met , no matter if no player get priority or not in that time. It can even trigger during spell/ability resolution.
But the triggered ability that already trigger will be put on the stack at next time player get priority. And before player get priority , SBA will be checked.
In the other hand , SBA will not be checked during spell/ability resolution.
That means , Triggered ability can trigger before SBA is checked , but triggered ability will be put on the stack after SBA is checked.
603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[Trigger condition], [effect],” and begin with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” They can also be expressed as “[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect].”
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.
603.2a Because they aren’t cast or activated, triggered abilities can trigger even when it isn’t legal to cast spells and activate abilities. Effects that prevent abilities from being activated don’t affect them.
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
704.4. Unlike triggered abilities, state-based actions pay no attention to what happens during the resolution of a spell or ability.
Obviously , English is not my first Language (sorry about that ).
This is where you are incorrect. Yes, state-based actions don't use the stack, but they don't happen immediately, they actually happen at a very specific set of times:
State-based actions are only performed when a player would receive priority, which happens after the Linvala resolves, enters the battlefield, and its trigger condition is checked.