From this week's CI, surely this is just a timing misplay?
Q: I control a Leonin Arbiter; my opponent pays 2 for the Arbiter, then activates a Windswept Heath. Can I respond by flashing Restoration Angel and blinking the Arbiter, to make my opponent have to pay another 2 (or not get to search for a land)?
A: You can. When the Arbiter leaves and re-enters the battlefield, it becomes, from the game's perspective, an entirely new object with no memory of or relation to the Arbiter that was on the battlefield before. So although your opponent paid for the ability of that Arbiter, your opponent hasn't paid for the ability of the Arbiter that's on the battlefield now, and will need to pay another or not be able to search.
I don't question the blinking double tax but my understanding was that you could activate something like a fetch, then if it required a payment the game WOULD allow you to activate mana abilities in the middle of the ability resolving to pay for those things. I know there is some other card/ability that references this, it's similar but not quite like Ghostly Prison where you don't have to activate mana abilities prior to announcing attackers. Clarification would be nice.
So the question is can you activate mana abilities and pay the arbiter's tax 'during' the resolution of the ability?
P.S. Found another scenario where this would be relevant: Blood Speaker. Once the ability triggers, if you have to pay the 2 in advance, your opponent could then kill Speaker in response to the trigger after you paid the 2, REALLY hosing you. Obviously killing Speaker in response is a good play regardless but if they can get you to waste 2 mana as well, all the better of course.
Paying to ignore a continuous effect is a special action, and to use those, you need to have priority. You don't have priority during the resolution of a spell or ability. So you have to pay in advance.
115.2d Some effects from static abilities allow a player to take an action to ignore the effect from
that ability for a duration. Doing so is a special action. A player can take such an action any
time he or she has priority.
But they'd get a priority chance after Restoration Angel's ETB trigger resolves to pay the new tax so you can still pay the tax before your fetchland ability resolves.
I don't question the blinking double tax but my understanding was that you could activate something like a fetch, then if it required a payment the game WOULD allow you to activate mana abilities in the middle of the ability resolving to pay for those things.
Eventhough we have this Rule.
605.3. Activating an activated mana ability follows the rules for activating any other activated ability (see rule 602.2), with the following exceptions:
605.3a A player may activate an activated mana ability whenever he or she has priority, whenever he or she is casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment, even if it’s in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability.
But there is this Rule too.
115.2d Some effects from static abilities allow a player to take an action to ignore the effect from that ability for a duration. Doing so is a special action. A player can take such an action any time he or she has priority.
So , after Angel's ability resolves = Leonin is returned to the field , players will get priority again before the next object on the stack (Windswept heath's ability) goes to resolve. At this time you have to take a special action = pay 2 (again) at this time.
P.S. Found another scenario where this would be relevant: Blood Speaker. Once the ability triggers, if you have to pay the 2 in advance, your opponent could then kill Speaker in response to the trigger after you paid the 2, REALLY hosing you. Obviously killing Speaker in response is a good play regardless but if they can get you to waste 2 mana as well, all the better of course.
Blood speaker's first ability will trigger at the beginning of your upkeep. But you choose to sacrifice Blood speaker or not on the ability's resolving.
So yes after this ability trigger and be put on the stack , you opponent has a chance to kill Bloodspeaker to stop this ability.
But if your opponent doesn't response , you have to pay for "Leonin's tax" before this ability resolves - if you intend to search your library.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes , I was Rules Advisor.
Obviously , English is not my first Language (sorry about that ).
it's similar but not quite like Ghostly Prison where you don't have to activate mana abilities prior to announcing attackers. Clarification would be nice.
Because in this situation about Ghostly prison we have these Rules.
508.1c The active player checks each creature he or she controls to see whether it’s affected by any restrictions (effects that say a creature can’t attack, or that it can’t attack unless some condition is met). If any restrictions are being disobeyed, the declaration of attackers is illegal.
508.1g If any of the chosen creatures require paying costs to attack, the active player determines the total cost to attack. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, ignore this change.
508.1h If any of the costs require mana, the active player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, “Mana Abilities”).
508.1i Once the player has enough mana in his or her mana pool, he or she pays all costs in any order. Partial payments are not allowed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes , I was Rules Advisor.
Obviously , English is not my first Language (sorry about that ).
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Q: I control a Leonin Arbiter; my opponent pays 2 for the Arbiter, then activates a Windswept Heath. Can I respond by flashing Restoration Angel and blinking the Arbiter, to make my opponent have to pay another 2 (or not get to search for a land)?
A: You can. When the Arbiter leaves and re-enters the battlefield, it becomes, from the game's perspective, an entirely new object with no memory of or relation to the Arbiter that was on the battlefield before. So although your opponent paid for the ability of that Arbiter, your opponent hasn't paid for the ability of the Arbiter that's on the battlefield now, and will need to pay another or not be able to search.
I don't question the blinking double tax but my understanding was that you could activate something like a fetch, then if it required a payment the game WOULD allow you to activate mana abilities in the middle of the ability resolving to pay for those things. I know there is some other card/ability that references this, it's similar but not quite like Ghostly Prison where you don't have to activate mana abilities prior to announcing attackers. Clarification would be nice.
So the question is can you activate mana abilities and pay the arbiter's tax 'during' the resolution of the ability?
P.S. Found another scenario where this would be relevant: Blood Speaker. Once the ability triggers, if you have to pay the 2 in advance, your opponent could then kill Speaker in response to the trigger after you paid the 2, REALLY hosing you. Obviously killing Speaker in response is a good play regardless but if they can get you to waste 2 mana as well, all the better of course.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Eventhough we have this Rule.
605.3. Activating an activated mana ability follows the rules for activating any other activated ability (see rule 602.2), with the following exceptions:
605.3a A player may activate an activated mana ability whenever he or she has priority, whenever he or she is casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment, even if it’s in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability.
But there is this Rule too.
115.2d Some effects from static abilities allow a player to take an action to ignore the effect from that ability for a duration. Doing so is a special action. A player can take such an action any time he or she has priority.
So , after Angel's ability resolves = Leonin is returned to the field , players will get priority again before the next object on the stack (Windswept heath's ability) goes to resolve. At this time you have to take a special action = pay 2 (again) at this time.
No , you can't.
Blood speaker's first ability will trigger at the beginning of your upkeep. But you choose to sacrifice Blood speaker or not on the ability's resolving.
So yes after this ability trigger and be put on the stack , you opponent has a chance to kill Bloodspeaker to stop this ability.
But if your opponent doesn't response , you have to pay for "Leonin's tax" before this ability resolves - if you intend to search your library.
Obviously , English is not my first Language (sorry about that ).
Because in this situation about Ghostly prison we have these Rules.
508.1c The active player checks each creature he or she controls to see whether it’s affected by any restrictions (effects that say a creature can’t attack, or that it can’t attack unless some condition is met). If any restrictions are being disobeyed, the declaration of attackers is illegal.
508.1g If any of the chosen creatures require paying costs to attack, the active player determines the total cost to attack. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, ignore this change.
508.1h If any of the costs require mana, the active player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, “Mana Abilities”).
508.1i Once the player has enough mana in his or her mana pool, he or she pays all costs in any order. Partial payments are not allowed.
Obviously , English is not my first Language (sorry about that ).