I had two different experiences at a tournament last week that made me really confused about the ruling regarding missed triggers. Did a judge make a mistake, or is there something I don't understand. The event was a PPTQ, for context.
In a game, I had Palace Siege set to Dragons. I untapped and picked up the top card of my library, looked at it, and said, "Oh, you lose 2 to Palace Siege." My opponent said that I had missed the trigger since I'd already drawn my card, and it is too late to make him lose life. I called the judge, who confirmed that since I had drawn my card, I had missed my trigger and therefore it was too late to make my opponent lose life. Fine.
In a second game (This was during the Top 8, so there was a judge standing by), I had Swarm of Bloodflies on the battlefield. My opponent attacked with some creatures, I blocked, and two creatures died as a result. We resolved combat, and my opponent moved to his second main phase. When he started casting a spell, he looked up at the judge at which point I realized I had missed the opportunity to put counters on my Swarm. I asked the judge what happens, he said that since the ability does not say "may," the swarm gets the counters even though I forgot to put them on. Fine.
A few days later, I realized how incredibly inconsistent this is. Both times, a triggered ability should have happened (neither says may), but I didn't say anything. With the Siege, it was deemed a "Missed Trigger" and the ability didn't occur. With the Swarm, it was not and the judge told me to add the counters. What's the difference? Or did the judge mess up?
The first one was definitely missed. You took a clear game action (drawing a card in the draw step) after the point where the trigger would have had a visible impact on the game (changing life totals in the upkeep step). Your opponent gets to choose whether to put the ability onto the stack, and it's obvious that he chose "no".
The second one... it's difficult to say without having been there. If you and/or your opponent did or said something to make it explicitly clear that you were in another step or phase, or your opponent had cast a non-Instant spell and put it onto the stack, then your trigger would have been missed. If no one really said anything and your opponent hadn't actually cast a spell yet or was casting an instant, then it would be conceivable that your trigger is still on the stack and you haven't missed it yet. This was a judgment call on the part of the Judge watching the game.
Another thing to mention is that there's a difference between you taking an action (drawing a card) and your opponent taking an action (casting a spell in his main phase). The Missed Trigger section of the IPG states that:
Players may not cause triggered abilities controlled by an opponent to be missed by taking game actions or otherwise prematurely advancing the game. For example, if a player draws a card during his or her draw step without allowing an opponent to demonstrate awareness of a triggered ability, the controller still has an opportunity to fulfill the appropriate obligation by doing so at that point.
The rule is to prevent people from skipping opponents' triggers by quickly moving to the next phase, which it doesn't sound like your opponent was intentionally doing. But it still makes this into a judgment call as to whether he allowed you enough time to resolve your triggers or not.
You almost make it sound like in Game 2 that the player anticipated the missed trigger. I am still working on L1, but this could be interpreted as Cheating according to the IPG. I would like a current Judge's take on that.
My opponent definitely did not intend for me to miss the trigger. It was in no way cheating.
It's hard to remember, but I believe I made some sort of hand motion indicating that my opponent could move on from combat. I'm honestly pretty shocked that it was not called a missed trigger. I definitely wasn't thinking about it (It had been a long day of Magic at that point).
It's hard to remember, but I believe I made some sort of hand motion indicating that my opponent could move on from combat.
A hand motion wouldn't cause the trigger to be considered missed. The IPG has this to say about triggers that need to be acknowledged on resolution:
Quote from IPG 2.1 »
A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a
choice upon resolution: The controller must take the appropriate physical action or make it clear what the action taken or choice made is before taking any game actions (such as casting a sorcery spell or explicitly moving to the next step or phase) that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved.
Waving your hand or making some sort of hand motion isn't "taking any game action" or "explicitly moving to the next step or phase", so up until the point where you allow your opponent to cast a sorcery, the trigger is not considered missed. If you don't step in and say "Wait, I have my trigger from Swarm of the Bloodflies" or something after he casts the spell, then the trigger is missed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In a game, I had Palace Siege set to Dragons. I untapped and picked up the top card of my library, looked at it, and said, "Oh, you lose 2 to Palace Siege." My opponent said that I had missed the trigger since I'd already drawn my card, and it is too late to make him lose life. I called the judge, who confirmed that since I had drawn my card, I had missed my trigger and therefore it was too late to make my opponent lose life. Fine.
In a second game (This was during the Top 8, so there was a judge standing by), I had Swarm of Bloodflies on the battlefield. My opponent attacked with some creatures, I blocked, and two creatures died as a result. We resolved combat, and my opponent moved to his second main phase. When he started casting a spell, he looked up at the judge at which point I realized I had missed the opportunity to put counters on my Swarm. I asked the judge what happens, he said that since the ability does not say "may," the swarm gets the counters even though I forgot to put them on. Fine.
A few days later, I realized how incredibly inconsistent this is. Both times, a triggered ability should have happened (neither says may), but I didn't say anything. With the Siege, it was deemed a "Missed Trigger" and the ability didn't occur. With the Swarm, it was not and the judge told me to add the counters. What's the difference? Or did the judge mess up?
The second one... it's difficult to say without having been there. If you and/or your opponent did or said something to make it explicitly clear that you were in another step or phase, or your opponent had cast a non-Instant spell and put it onto the stack, then your trigger would have been missed. If no one really said anything and your opponent hadn't actually cast a spell yet or was casting an instant, then it would be conceivable that your trigger is still on the stack and you haven't missed it yet. This was a judgment call on the part of the Judge watching the game.
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
The rule is to prevent people from skipping opponents' triggers by quickly moving to the next phase, which it doesn't sound like your opponent was intentionally doing. But it still makes this into a judgment call as to whether he allowed you enough time to resolve your triggers or not.
It's hard to remember, but I believe I made some sort of hand motion indicating that my opponent could move on from combat. I'm honestly pretty shocked that it was not called a missed trigger. I definitely wasn't thinking about it (It had been a long day of Magic at that point).
Anyway, thanks for the responses!
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
A hand motion wouldn't cause the trigger to be considered missed. The IPG has this to say about triggers that need to be acknowledged on resolution:
Waving your hand or making some sort of hand motion isn't "taking any game action" or "explicitly moving to the next step or phase", so up until the point where you allow your opponent to cast a sorcery, the trigger is not considered missed. If you don't step in and say "Wait, I have my trigger from Swarm of the Bloodflies" or something after he casts the spell, then the trigger is missed.