Title is pretty self explanatory... trying to figure out if Fulminator Mage is good sideboard tech vs Scapeshift, specifically, can I sac a fulminator mage when the Valakut, the Molten Elder enters the battlefield but before the trigger goes on the stack.
So imagine your opponent scapes with Fulminator on board. What's confusing me is how the whole "lands entering the battlefield" would effect the state of triggers on the stack, since as far as I know, you can't respond to lands.
So for TLDR, can I use Fulminator to stop Scapeshift? If so, how exactly, and if not, why not?
No, you can't sacrifice the Fulminator Mage before the triggers from the mountains go on the stack, but that doesn't mean that the Mage isn't bad tech, because it actually does work pretty well.
Valakut's trigger has an "intervening-"if"" clause, so when each mountain enters the battlefield, it checks for the presence of 5 other mountains when the trigger tries to go on the stack, and again when it resolves. This means that if they Scapeshift for a Valakut and 6 mountains, you can destroy 1 of the mountains with the triggers on the stack. You'll take 3 damage from the mountain you destroyed (the 5 other mountains are still there, after all), but the other 5 mountains will only see 4 other mountains on resolution, so the ability is removed from the stack without resolving, and you take only 3 damage instead of 18.
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Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
So I can't "hard counter" a Scapeshift, but I can slow them down by 1 turn/1 land. The whole thing with scapeshift / valakut triggers is pretty arcane, so this interests me as a part of magic study in addition to deckbuilding. Is there any way the previous poster or somebody else can explain to me in detail why exactly fulminator can effect Valakut in such a fashion?
fulminator mage can only destroy non-basics, so it does not affect scapeshift at all because the trigger for Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle will still be on the stack
fulminator mage can only destroy non-basics, so it does not affect scapeshift at all because the trigger for Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle will still be on the stack
Right, but in reality I've never seen a Scapeshift list with 5 basic Mountains, so in practice the question with Fulminator Mage will come up because they would throw down a Stomping Ground, Breeding Pool, etc.
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So imagine your opponent scapes with Fulminator on board. What's confusing me is how the whole "lands entering the battlefield" would effect the state of triggers on the stack, since as far as I know, you can't respond to lands.
So for TLDR, can I use Fulminator to stop Scapeshift? If so, how exactly, and if not, why not?
Valakut's trigger has an "intervening-"if"" clause, so when each mountain enters the battlefield, it checks for the presence of 5 other mountains when the trigger tries to go on the stack, and again when it resolves. This means that if they Scapeshift for a Valakut and 6 mountains, you can destroy 1 of the mountains with the triggers on the stack. You'll take 3 damage from the mountain you destroyed (the 5 other mountains are still there, after all), but the other 5 mountains will only see 4 other mountains on resolution, so the ability is removed from the stack without resolving, and you take only 3 damage instead of 18.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Right, but in reality I've never seen a Scapeshift list with 5 basic Mountains, so in practice the question with Fulminator Mage will come up because they would throw down a Stomping Ground, Breeding Pool, etc.