Obzedat + Whip of Erebos

  • #1
    How does Obzedat, Ghost Council interact with Whip of Erebos? Can it return to the battlefield?
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  • #2
    It can actually. Because Obzedat is expecting to return from exile and that is where it is at he can return.
  • #3
    I thought the whip's clause for leaving the battlefield would still cause it to be exiled permanently.
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  • #4
    It depends on how and when Obzedat, Ghost Council leaves the battlefield.

    1) If it's brought back by Whip of Erebos and it would leave the battlefield for any reason other than Obzedat's own innate end-step exile trigger, it won't be able to come back. This is because the "return to the battlefield at the beginning of its owner's next upkeep" effect is part of the same ability as the "you may exile Obzedat"; if it's exiled through some other means other than through its own ability, it won't be able to return.

    2) If you control both the Whip and Obzedat, you control both the Obzedat and the Whip triggers, and so you can put them on the stack in either order. Whichever one resolves first will be the ability that exiles Obzedat and, if it's Obzedat's ability that exiles itself, it will be able to return. Otherwise, it will not.

    3) If an opponent controls the Whip and you control Obzedat, since triggers are put on the stack in APNAP order, if it's your turn, the Whip's triggered ability will resolve first, exiling it, so it won't be able to return. If it's your opponent's turn, see #2.

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  • #5
    Excellent. That's what I thought.
    I collect foil Vampires.
  • #6
    Quote from Thought Criminal
    It depends on how and when Obzedat, Ghost Council leaves the battlefield.

    1) If it's brought back by Whip of Erebos and it would leave the battlefield for any reason other than Obzedat's own innate end-step exile trigger, it won't be able to come back. This is because the "return to the battlefield at the beginning of its owner's next upkeep" effect is part of the same ability as the "you may exile Obzedat"; if it's exiled through some other means other than through its own ability, it won't be able to return.


    Technically it also works with Momentary Blink and friends too. All the cards you could use for the ole Unearth switcheroo work just as well with the whip.
  • #7
    Sorry, but I have a question regarding
    3) If an opponent controls the Whip and you control Obzedat, since triggers are put on the stack in APNAP order, if it's your turn, the Whip's triggered ability will resolve first, exiling it, so it won't be able to return. If it's your opponent's turn, see #2.


    How can opponent's whip has any effect to my Obzedat? Whip says "from your own graveyard".

    Assuming i didn't "steal" Obzedat from my opponent, how does the the whip affect my obzedat?
  • #8
    Quote from s0lesurviv0r
    I thought the whip's clause for leaving the battlefield would still cause it to be exiled permanently.
    nope

    If it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else.

    translation: if it leaves the battlefield for any zone other than exile, put it in exile instead

    well the Obzy trigger is putting in exile so the replacement effect doesn't apply to the zone move and the Obzy delayed trigger will find it in exile just fine to return it
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  • #9
    Quote from encikdpac
    Sorry, but I have a question regarding

    How can opponent's whip has any effect to my Obzedat? Whip says "from your own graveyard".

    Assuming i didn't "steal" Obzedat from my opponent, how does the the whip affect my obzedat?


    That's pretty much the main case. If you cast Word of Seizing after he was reanimated or Gather Specimens in response to them activating the whip.
  • #10
    Quote from Thought Criminal

    2) If you control both the Whip and Obzedat, you control both the Obzedat and the Whip triggers, and so you can put them on the stack in either order. Whichever one resolves first will be the ability that exiles Obzedat and, if it's Obzedat's ability that exiles itself, it will be able to return. Otherwise, it will not.

    But doesn't the whip have this static ability?

    "If it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else"

    So if Obzedat goes to exile it, this triggers, and the Obzedat trigger fizzles? I'm assuming when something gets exiled, it leaves the battlefield.
  • #11
    No, if Obzedat goes to exile, it's not going "anywhere else," so the Whip's effect doesn't interfere in any way. The trigger to return Obzedat will work just fine, because Obzedat went directly to exile and didn't go anywhere else in the meantime.
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  • #12
    Quote from bimmerbot
    No, if Obzedat goes to exile, it's not going "anywhere else," so the Whip's effect doesn't interfere in any way. The trigger to return Obzedat will work just fine, because Obzedat went directly to exile and didn't go anywhere else in the meantime.


    So exiling is not "leaving the battlefield"? I could whip back an aetherling from my graveyard, exile it main phase after combat, and it will come back to stay? Just one of those moments that language, logic, and magic don't coexist in my mind if that's the case.
  • #13
    Quote from rurodrig
    So exiling is not "leaving the battlefield"? I could whip back an aetherling from my graveyard, exile it main phase after combat, and it will come back to stay? Just one of those moments that language, logic, and magic don't coexist in my mind if that's the case.


    Exiling is considered leaving the battlefield. Whip of Erebos's replacement effect just forces the creature to go to the exile zone instead of "anywhere else". If it's not going to the exile zone, it's not going "anywhere else".

    But yes, you would be able to exile your AEtherling as you describe, since the Whip doesn't care what happens to the AEtherling after it becomes exiled, only that it goes to exile.

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  • #14
    Quote from Thought Criminal
    Exiling is considered leaving the battlefield. Whip of Erebos's replacement effect just forces the creature to go to the exile zone instead of "anywhere else". If it's not going to the exile zone, it's not going "anywhere else".

    But yes, you would be able to exile your AEtherling as you describe, since the Whip doesn't care what happens to the AEtherling after it becomes exiled, only that it goes to exile.


    OK...it's pretty shifty, but I'll buy it.

    thx
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