@OP: You should teach this person how to properly play the game in a competitive fashion. Even though FNM's are not considered competitive, they are in the sense that there are rules enforcement and judges and whatnot which is different than what you find at the kitchen table...
It also sounds like you are trying to plead your friends case on the basis that this person is somewhat ignorant of MTG. That is absolutely your friends fault.
If your friend is missing triggers and other things, perhaps you might be inclined to explain the missed triggers at a time when this is appropriate (after the match) and also to do so when y'all are just playing casually at home. It can be helpful to some people to have things demonstrated and explained.
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No, you're taking it out of context. Players aren't allowed to purposely miss their own triggers. But we allow players to genuinely forget their triggers, because remembering triggers is a skill. If you purposely ignore your OWN trigger, you're cheating.
But you can't know they are doing it on purpose, so you should go back to complete the action of a missed trigger as long as its not a 'may' effect... Which didn't happen in this case.
There isn't clear guidance for what to do when a spectator points out a trigger. I don't think anyone can say it's 100% right or wrong to deny a trigger based on that, but try to imagine it from the opponent's point of view. I notice my opponent miss a trigger, and I know I don't have to say anything. Maybe I'll win because of my opponent's error. Then somebody who isn't even in the match jumps in and reminds this player about the trigger, and the judge has to decide what's right for this situation, on the spot. Either choice will upset one player, neither choice will feel "fair" to both players. Neither choice is necessarily wrong.
Thats not really a win if its only because your opponent didn't follow the rules. Besides, according to the blurb you posted I could have just called a judge and had him fix it... But in a store with literally one hundred people (80 for standard and 20+ for sealed) and one judge, is it correct to make them pause, run over to the swamped judge and tell him that a guy who is playing his second game of magic missed a mandatory trigger.... At a casual event.....
@OP: You should teach this person how to properly play the game in a competitive fashion. Even though FNM's are not considered competitive, they are in the sense that there are rules enforcement and judges and whatnot which is different than what you find at the kitchen table...
It also sounds like you are trying to plead your friends case on the basis that this person is somewhat ignorant of MTG. That is absolutely your friends fault.
If your friend is missing triggers and other things, perhaps you might be inclined to explain the missed triggers at a time when this is appropriate (after the match) and also to do so when y'all are just playing casually at home. It can be helpful to some people to have things demonstrated and explained.
To build on this, one of the things I have been teaching my godson is that when he moves a card is to re-read the card. Be it tapping it, activating it, targeting it, putting in the battlefield or graveyard. It helped him learn about triggers.
In regards to the OP, we all feel your pain. New to MTG and missing triggers cause losses, and even though FNM is supposed to be about fun and learning, some people only have fun while winning, even at the FNM level. Me personally, if I am playing a new player, I will help to a point. Again, I want that person to enjoy themself and come back again. If all they do is get constantly crushed because no one is helping them, that's not helping the magic community in any shape form or fashion.
At the end of every game, at least for me, if I have played a new player I will mention any missed triggers to my opponent. It's a learning environment. I want that person to learn, and be more competitive. I know many where I play do the same for new players.
That being said, if the player is a vet, even a kid, and they mess up, I don't allow takebacks.
But you can't know they are doing it on purpose, so you should go back to complete the action of a missed trigger as long as its not a 'may' effect... Which didn't happen in this case.
Thats not really a win if its only because your opponent didn't follow the rules. Besides, according to the blurb you posted I could have just called a judge and had him fix it... But in a store with literally one hundred people (80 for standard and 20+ for sealed) and one judge, is it correct to make them pause, run over to the swamped judge and tell him that a guy who is playing his second game of magic missed a mandatory trigger.... At a casual event.....
In the case of a trigger that does something clearly beneficial for its controller, there is not much motivation to miss that trigger on purpose, so it's unlikely that a judge would suspect foul play. And while it is acceptable and encouraged to inform a judge about a perceived violation, in the case of a player forgetting a trigger they would have wanted, the judge would most likely say, "Thanks for letting me know, but there's no problem in this case, so I'm not going to interfere in this match." A missed trigger is, by technicality, a violation of game rules. However, as I've explained, the tournament rules give an exception for missed triggers to be treated specially. If it was something that we know the controller wouldn't have wanted (e.g., sacrifice a creature), we would step in and correct that, and make sure the player wasn't cheating.
Try to eliminate the idea of "mandatory" trigger from your mind, since it has no real meaning anymore, except in the case of triggers that are "usually detrimental" to the controller. WotC is moving away from using "may" in triggers where it doesn't need to be, because of the current state of policy treating all "good" triggers as things you need to remember in order to benefit from them.
Thats not really a win if its only because your opponent didn't follow the rules.
This is 100% an opinion. If you don't feel that you'd like to win this way, then you are welcome to point out all your opponent's triggers even though you aren't required to do so. That's a very sporting thing to do, and I would admire you for it. It's something I generally do as well when I play. But we simply don't punish players for adhering to the tournament rules and policies.
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But you can't know they are doing it on purpose, so you should go back to complete the action of a missed trigger as long as its not a 'may' effect... Which didn't happen in this case.
Thats not really a win if its only because your opponent didn't follow the rules. Besides, according to the blurb you posted I could have just called a judge and had him fix it... But in a store with literally one hundred people (80 for standard and 20+ for sealed) and one judge, is it correct to make them pause, run over to the swamped judge and tell him that a guy who is playing his second game of magic missed a mandatory trigger.... At a casual event.....
Cortar, there are cases where it is rather obvious someone is missing a trigger on purpose. Consider the following card:
This card has a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of your upkeep. Let's say you are at 1 life and really don't want to remember that trigger. The rules update on missed triggers specifically referred to cases like this:
What Hasn't Changed?
Quite a lot! You still can't "forget" your own triggered abilities on purpose. The text of the triggered ability doesn't much matter here. If you've controlled Dark Confidant and successfully resolved its ability for seven turns in a row but now that you're at 3 life your memory gets a little faulty, expect a judge to launch an investigation.(Source: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/233)
Basically any triggered ability that it would benefit you to miss is likely to lead to some sort of investigation, as indicated by the article.
My suggestion to you would be to help out your friend by playing against him a few times and explaining how interactions work and if he actually misses a trigger like the newt, remind him in that friendly setting to make sure to use that trigger. If you play with him enough, it won't take him long to never forget those triggers. Also, every time he gets a new card/deck, again you may want to play with him to make sure he gets the simple interactions down as much as possible.
I'll remind you that this forum isn't for arguing about rulings that another judge made. If you are unhappy with the policy, this isn't the place to discuss that. This forum is to explain what the rules and policy are, not to argue about what they should be.
I agree. Thread locked.
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It also sounds like you are trying to plead your friends case on the basis that this person is somewhat ignorant of MTG. That is absolutely your friends fault.
If your friend is missing triggers and other things, perhaps you might be inclined to explain the missed triggers at a time when this is appropriate (after the match) and also to do so when y'all are just playing casually at home. It can be helpful to some people to have things demonstrated and explained.
But you can't know they are doing it on purpose, so you should go back to complete the action of a missed trigger as long as its not a 'may' effect... Which didn't happen in this case.
Thats not really a win if its only because your opponent didn't follow the rules. Besides, according to the blurb you posted I could have just called a judge and had him fix it... But in a store with literally one hundred people (80 for standard and 20+ for sealed) and one judge, is it correct to make them pause, run over to the swamped judge and tell him that a guy who is playing his second game of magic missed a mandatory trigger.... At a casual event.....
To build on this, one of the things I have been teaching my godson is that when he moves a card is to re-read the card. Be it tapping it, activating it, targeting it, putting in the battlefield or graveyard. It helped him learn about triggers.
In regards to the OP, we all feel your pain. New to MTG and missing triggers cause losses, and even though FNM is supposed to be about fun and learning, some people only have fun while winning, even at the FNM level. Me personally, if I am playing a new player, I will help to a point. Again, I want that person to enjoy themself and come back again. If all they do is get constantly crushed because no one is helping them, that's not helping the magic community in any shape form or fashion.
At the end of every game, at least for me, if I have played a new player I will mention any missed triggers to my opponent. It's a learning environment. I want that person to learn, and be more competitive. I know many where I play do the same for new players.
That being said, if the player is a vet, even a kid, and they mess up, I don't allow takebacks.
In the case of a trigger that does something clearly beneficial for its controller, there is not much motivation to miss that trigger on purpose, so it's unlikely that a judge would suspect foul play. And while it is acceptable and encouraged to inform a judge about a perceived violation, in the case of a player forgetting a trigger they would have wanted, the judge would most likely say, "Thanks for letting me know, but there's no problem in this case, so I'm not going to interfere in this match." A missed trigger is, by technicality, a violation of game rules. However, as I've explained, the tournament rules give an exception for missed triggers to be treated specially. If it was something that we know the controller wouldn't have wanted (e.g., sacrifice a creature), we would step in and correct that, and make sure the player wasn't cheating.
Try to eliminate the idea of "mandatory" trigger from your mind, since it has no real meaning anymore, except in the case of triggers that are "usually detrimental" to the controller. WotC is moving away from using "may" in triggers where it doesn't need to be, because of the current state of policy treating all "good" triggers as things you need to remember in order to benefit from them.
This is 100% an opinion. If you don't feel that you'd like to win this way, then you are welcome to point out all your opponent's triggers even though you aren't required to do so. That's a very sporting thing to do, and I would admire you for it. It's something I generally do as well when I play. But we simply don't punish players for adhering to the tournament rules and policies.
This FAQ answers many of the common questions asked in the MTGS Rulings forum. Take a look!
I'm the editor/content manager of the Magic Rules Tips Blog - Bookmark this site for daily tips about game and tournament rules.
"Abstract concepts of perfect judging run headlong into the realities of how people play the game." - Toby Elliott (papa_funk)
My Type 4 Stack -- DCI Documents -- Comp Rules
Cortar, there are cases where it is rather obvious someone is missing a trigger on purpose. Consider the following card:
Dark Confidant
This card has a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of your upkeep. Let's say you are at 1 life and really don't want to remember that trigger. The rules update on missed triggers specifically referred to cases like this:
What Hasn't Changed?
Quite a lot! You still can't "forget" your own triggered abilities on purpose. The text of the triggered ability doesn't much matter here. If you've controlled Dark Confidant and successfully resolved its ability for seven turns in a row but now that you're at 3 life your memory gets a little faulty, expect a judge to launch an investigation.(Source: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/233)
Basically any triggered ability that it would benefit you to miss is likely to lead to some sort of investigation, as indicated by the article.
My suggestion to you would be to help out your friend by playing against him a few times and explaining how interactions work and if he actually misses a trigger like the newt, remind him in that friendly setting to make sure to use that trigger. If you play with him enough, it won't take him long to never forget those triggers. Also, every time he gets a new card/deck, again you may want to play with him to make sure he gets the simple interactions down as much as possible.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
I agree. Thread locked.
Please use card tags when you're asking a question about specific cards: [c]Serra Angel[/c] -> Serra Angel.