Bestow and the 2-for-1

  • #1
    If you cast a bestow creature as an Aura, and your opponent kills the target in response, what happens? Does it become a creature, or do you still suffer the old 2-for-1?

    I know that if a bestow aura sticks, and the creature dies later, the aura becomes a creature. But what if the creature dies while the aura is still on the stack?


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  • #2
    The "bestow"ing object becomes a creature spell and resolves normally as a creature spell. At least that's how it seems like it will work. The official rules have not been released for it.
  • #3
    if you cast it for the alternative cost - bestow - targeting a creature, and the creature dies while the aura is on the stack, the enchantment will come into play as a creature.

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  • #4
    If you cast this card for its bestow cost, it's an Aura spell with enchant creature. It becomes a creature again if it's not attached to a creature.

    The way Bestow is worded is that it becomes an aura spell and if an aura doesn't have a target it just fizzles, doesn't it?
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  • #5
    The way it reads, If you cast a card for it's Bestow cost it is not a Creature on the stack, it's an Aura. So if you are casting an Aura spell and the target is destroyed in response, the Aura spell will fizzle for lack of a target and go to the graveyard.
    There is no reason why a Bestowed card would work differently, so in this scenario the Bestowed card will just fizzle.
    ]
  • #6
  • #7
    Welp. Time to wait for an official ruling on this. In the meantime, watch out for instant-speed removal.


    Current Abrupt Decay count: 14

    My decks:

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    UB Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
    BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher

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    R RDW
  • #8
    It has been stated in other ruling questions regarding Bestow that it would enter as a creature.

    The key wording is: it becomes a creature again if it's not attached to a creature

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  • #9
    ajprokos: Aura spells aren't ever attached to creatures.

    The key here is to understand that there's new rules for Bestow that make it function differently than usual enchantments. The reminder text isn't an end-all.

    Tabak saying they won't be countered if the target becomes illegal answers OP.
  • #10
    Quote from dorino
    ajprokos: Aura spells aren't ever attached to creatures.



    aura is a subtype of enchantments. The older cards had on the cards 'enchant creature' - now enchantment - aura. They don't always enchant creatures (land auras).

    I know there are aura's that enchant players too.



    if the target it was going to enchant is no longer there, than it would turn into a creature before resolving

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  • #11
    I saw something about Sutcliffe's article yesterday being corrected because he assumed you would be subject to the 2-for-1 as well. Way to not explain things to your authors Wizards.
  • #12
    608.3a If the object that's resolving is an Aura spell, its resolution involves two steps. First, it checks whether the target specified by its enchant ability is still legal, as described in rule 608.2b. (See rule 702.5, "Enchant.") If so, the spell card becomes a permanent and is put onto the battlefield under the control of the spell's controller attached to the object it was targeting


    If the target becomes illegal, the spell card should never become a permanent. But the rules reminder text for bestow says:

    It becomes a creature again if it's not attached to a creature.


    Clearly refers to the card when it is in play (because it has to be in play to be attached to a creature).

    So unless they issue a special clarification, I don't see why the 2-for-1 will not occur.
    Last edited by limecat: 9/4/2013 3:27:36 PM
  • #13
    Quote from limecat
    Unless they do a special clarification, I don't see why the 2-for-1 will not occur.

    This is that special clarification:
  • #14
    Quote from limecat
    If the target becomes illegal, the spell card should never become a permanent.

    And the rules text for bestow:



    Clearly refers to the card when it is in play (because it has to be in play to be attached to a creature).

    Unless they do a special clarification, I don't see why the 2-for-1 will not occur.


    We do not yet have the rules for the Bestow ability. What we have is reminder text which, while correct, may be incomplete.

    We have confirmation from the mechanics article, and directly from the rules manager, that if the target of a spell cast with its Bestow cost is removed in response, the Bestow card will enter the battlefield as a creature. We'll understand why that happens when the rules for Bestow are released.
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  • #15
    Quote from ajprokos
    if the target it was going to enchant is no longer there, than it would turn into a creature before resolving


    Sure, but that's because of rules mumbo-jumbo we don't know about yet. The fact is, the reminder text does suggest 2-for-1. Aura spells aren't ever attached to creatures. Aura permanents are, sometimes.

    I know what an aura is.

    Quote from limecat
    But the rules text for bestow says:


    No, it doesn't. That's reminder text, not rules text. It's allowed to be incomplete.
    Last edited by dorino: 9/4/2013 4:32:13 PM
  • #16
    If the targeted creature is destroyed, the bestow card enters the battlefield as a creature. This has both been confirmed by the Rules Manager and is also in the Daily MTG article about Theros mechanics.
  • #17
    Quote from Nukeman
    So if you are casting an Aura spell and the target is destroyed in response, the Aura spell will fizzle for lack of a target and go to the graveyard.


    Is that true? Doesn't the aura spell, if the target dies, still enter the battlefield but immediately go to the graveyard because it's not attached to anything?

    Or does the actual aura spell get countered because it doesn't have a legal target? What if an aura had a EtB ability and it's target was destroyed? Would the EtB ability still trigger?
  • #18
    Aura spells target. If the target is illegal when the aura goes to resolve, then the aura is countered and goes to the graveyard. It never enters the battlefield, so anything that triggers when the aura enters the battlefield would not trigger.
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  • #19
    Quote from Natedogg
    Aura spells target. If the target is illegal when the aura goes to resolve, then the aura is countered and goes to the graveyard. It never enters the battlefield, so anything that triggers when the aura enters the battlefield would not trigger.


    While this is true, there is an exception for bestow cards.
  • #20
    I'm interested to see the full rules on how Bestow works. If the 2-for-1 is not the case, I wonder if you can cast a creature for its Bestow cost without having a legal target? And if so, I wonder if you can get around Essence Scatter and the like by casting it as an Aura and then having it enter the battlefield as a creature?
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  • #21
    Quote from DrLiteral
    I'm interested to see the full rules on how Bestow works. If the 2-for-1 is not the case, I wonder if you can cast a creature for its Bestow cost without having a legal target?


    No, you cannot. If, during the casting process, a spell requires a target and a legal target can't be chosen, then the game is rewound back to immediately before the spell was announced.

    I wonder if you can get around Essence Scatter and the like by casting it as an Aura and then having it enter the battlefield as a creature?


    It would get around Essence Scatter. It would be a noncreature Aura spell on the stack, regardless of what it enters the battlefield as.

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  • #22
    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/therosmechanics#c

    If the target creature leaves the battlefield after you cast a card with bestow as an Aura but before the spell resolves, the Aura spell will resolve as an enchantment creature rather than being countered like a normal Aura spell. If the target creature is still on the battlefield when the Aura spell resolves, it resolves as an Aura enchanting that creature.


    I imagine Wizard's official mechanics article answers this question thoroughly, and we'll see how it's added into the comp. rules in a week or two.
  • #23
    I would like it to two for one. It's seems sloppy to give an exception here.

    I loathe creatures!
  • #24
    Quote from Yonekura
    I would like it to two for one. It's seems sloppy to give an exception here.

    What you would like is irrelevant for the Rules Forum, we deal with what the rules actually are (or, in this case, going to be once they have been updated). Furthermore an argument could be made that the rules are full of exceptions, but again, this is not the place for that discussion.

    The original question has been answered, so Thread locked.
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