Wild Ricochet and Counterspells

  • #1
    If there are multiple spells already on the stack and my opponent plays a counterspell, someone then plays Wild Ricochet targeting the counter. Now, the way I theorize this interaction will work is that Wild Ricochet redirects the counterspell to itself. As the Wild Ricochet is on top of the stack, it is still in the process of resolving as the counterspell is redirected. It then copies the counterspell, finishes resolving, and leaves play. The counterspell that was re-directed now no longer has a legal target and goes to the graveyard, and you have an additional copied counterspell that may be targeted at another spell on the stack.

    Did I get it right, or no?
  • #2
    For the record I also think this would be a great question for the Judge Test, not sure which level.
  • #3
    The original counterspell would be on the stack until it goes to resolve. It will then be countered due to lack of legal target. Otherwise the rest sounds good.
  • #4
    Quote from Spazik008
    If there are multiple spells already on the stack and my opponent plays a counterspell, someone then plays Wild Ricochet targeting the counter. Now, the way I theorize this interaction will work is that Wild Ricochet redirects the counterspell to itself. As the Wild Ricochet is on top of the stack, it is still in the process of resolving as the counterspell is redirected. It then copies the counterspell, finishes resolving, and leaves play. The counterspell that was re-directed now no longer has a legal target and goes to the graveyard, and you have an additional copied counterspell that may be targeted at another spell on the stack.

    Did I get it right, or no?
    Wild Ricochet resolves.
    You may change the target of their Counterspell to another legal target, however, it can not target itself though you can have it target the currently resolving Wild Ricochet.
    Wild Ricochet will then create a copy of that Counterspell targeting whatever the original is targeting and finally you may change its target to another spell on the stack.

    The copy of the Counterspell will be next to resolve.
    When the original Counterspell goes to resolve it'll be countered.
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  • #5
    Quote from Spazik008
    If there are multiple spells already on the stack and my opponent plays a counterspell, someone then plays Wild Ricochet targeting the counter. Now, the way I theorize this interaction will work is that Wild Ricochet redirects the counterspell to itself. As the Wild Ricochet is on top of the stack, it is still in the process of resolving as the counterspell is redirected. It then copies the counterspell, finishes resolving, and leaves play. The counterspell that was re-directed now no longer has a legal target and goes to the graveyard, and you have an additional copied counterspell that may be targeted at another spell on the stack.

    Did I get it right, or no?

    There is pronoun ambiguity here. Assuming you mean that Wild Ricochet changes the target for Counterspell to Wild Ricochet, that's correct. A spell can never target itself.

    Also, the new target for the copied counterspell must be chosen as Wild Ricochet is still resolving, right after that copy is created. The copy can target any other spell currently on the stack.

    Then Wild Ricochet finishes resolving. Then the copied Counterspell tries to resolve. If it was also targeting Wild Ricochet, it gets countered for not having a legal target, and then the original Counterspell is countered for the same reason. If the copy was targeting the original Counterspell, it resolves and counters that original Counterspell. Finally, the spell that was originally targeted by the first Counterspell will resolve.
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  • #6
    Thanks Mr. Judge, I added a couple ricochets to my sideboard when I realized I could counter counterspells and wanted to nail down all the technical aspects of doing so. Thanks again.
  • #7
    Quote from 2goth4U
    Wild Ricochet resolves.
    You may change the target of their Counterspell to another legal target, however, it can not target itself though you can have it target the currently resolving Wild Ricochet.
    Wild Ricochet will then create a copy of that Counterspell targeting whatever the original is targeting and finally you may change its target to another spell on the stack.

    The copy of the Counterspell will be next to resolve.
    When the original Counterspell goes to resolve it'll be countered.


    Does this mean that if my opp cast a bolt on my Phantasmal Image and then I Wild Ricochet it and the copy to his face there will be 2 illusion sac triggers on the stack?
  • #8
    Quote from jadoth
    Does this mean that if my opp cast a bolt on my Phantasmal Image and then I Wild Ricochet it and the copy to his face there will be 2 illusion sac triggers on the stack?
    I'm uncertain, but I suspect it will not because the copy is created on the stack with the target already in place, much like a creature entering the battlefield tapped won't trigger something that triggers on permanents becoming tapped.

    Normally, when casting a spell one puts the spell on the stack first and then chooses targets for it shortly after so the game state sees a distinct game state change between an object on the stack with no target to one that suddenly takes on the target.
    603.2d Some trigger events use the word “becomes” (for example, “becomes attached” or “becomes blocked”). These trigger only at the time the named event happens—they don’t trigger if that state already exists or retrigger if it persists. An ability that triggers when a permanent “becomes
    tapped” or “becomes untapped” doesn’t trigger if the permanent enters the battlefield in that state.


    edit: mind you, maybe it will, a recent thread on the other forum about Livewire Lash and Gigadrowse where the overwhelming answer was "of course it triggers for each copy"
    Last edited by ToddB: 8/6/2013 3:21:31 PM
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  • #9
    There will be two triggers to sacrifice it, but I can't imagine that being relevant most of the time. The creature becomes a target of the spell copy that is created, then you can choose a new target. Once all that is done, the triggered ability will go on the stack. Aside from the very few effects that can counter triggered abilties, it's just going to get sacrificed regardless.
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