Simple question here... let's say my opponent casts Hero of Oxid Ridge and I let it resolve. I have a Shock in my hand and I am waiting for the Hero to resolve so I can kill it before it can attack and activate Battle Cry.
But instead of giving me even half a second to respond to the resolved Hero, he enters combat as soon as it's on the table and taps all his creatures, spreading Battle Cry across the board.
What's the proper play order here? Am I able to cast Shock at his Hero before he goes into combat? Am I allowed to say "before you go into combat... I'm gonna do this" even though he's already started tapping his attackers, or am I out of luck and have to deal with the Battle Cry effect? Does the player who played the creature with haste still have priority and is able to declare his or her attackers before I'm able to respond to a resolved Hero?
Or did I simply screw up and I should've just cast Shock as soon as I saw the Hero hit the table? (I didn't have much time, his fingers never left the card and he immediately tapped the Hero and all his other creatures as soon as he hit the table)
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My Commanders:
:symg::symu::symb: The Mimeoplasm
:symg::symu::symb: Damia, Sage of Stone
:symr::symg::symw: Mayael the Anima
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum the Hegemon
:symg::symu: Prime Speaker Zegana
:symb::symr: Olivia Voldaren
:symu::symb: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
:symr::symw: Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Geth, Lord of the Vault
It is absolutly allowed to ask your opponent to back up to the end of a mainphase if they go right into declaring attacks without giving you a chance to respond. You ratain priority at the end of his mainphase to do anything they can't just skip over that and say to late I moved on already.
I assume it's different for planeswalkers, though, right?
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My Commanders:
:symg::symu::symb: The Mimeoplasm
:symg::symu::symb: Damia, Sage of Stone
:symr::symg::symw: Mayael the Anima
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum the Hegemon
:symg::symu: Prime Speaker Zegana
:symb::symr: Olivia Voldaren
:symu::symb: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
:symr::symw: Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Geth, Lord of the Vault
if your opponent shortcuts directly from his main phase to "i attack with these guys" (which he did by immediately tapping guys as soon as the hero resolved), you can stop him and back him up to his beginning of combat step before attackers are declared (i'm sure someone with access to the rulebook can give you the proper rule citation) to cast your shock.
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total casual player, I love being able to swing in with a Stonehewer Giant equipped with a Sword of Vengeance, Sword of Light/Shadow, Lightning Greaves, and Argentum Armor. That's not gonna happen anywhere but casual play.
Decks (all casual at this point) GW(R) Equipment GBW Treefolk U Sanity Grinding U 16 Lord Merfolk R burn, devastating summons/goblin bushwhacker W Light From Within G Wolves
I assume it's different for planeswalkers, though, right?
In the sense that they will always get an opportunity to use an activated ability of a planeswalker that just entered the battlefield before you can do something to it?
Yes, that is different, in part because the game does not have to proceed to a different step, so your opponent doesn't have to yield priority.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
My Commanders:
:symg::symu::symb: The Mimeoplasm
:symg::symu::symb: Damia, Sage of Stone
:symr::symg::symw: Mayael the Anima
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum the Hegemon
:symg::symu: Prime Speaker Zegana
:symb::symr: Olivia Voldaren
:symu::symb: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
:symr::symw: Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Geth, Lord of the Vault
I assume it's different for planeswalkers, though, right?
yes, the active player still gets priority to cast spells/activate abilities as soon as the planeswalker spell resolves. this means your opponent can activate a loyalty ability before you are given the opportunity to hit the walker with a shock/lightning bolt/what have you. the planeswalker will still receive the change in loyalty counters (because adding or removing them is a cost, which cannot be responded to) and the ability will go on the stack, then priority is passed to you and you can play your burn spell.
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total casual player, I love being able to swing in with a Stonehewer Giant equipped with a Sword of Vengeance, Sword of Light/Shadow, Lightning Greaves, and Argentum Armor. That's not gonna happen anywhere but casual play.
Decks (all casual at this point) GW(R) Equipment GBW Treefolk U Sanity Grinding U 16 Lord Merfolk R burn, devastating summons/goblin bushwhacker W Light From Within G Wolves
if your opponent shortcuts directly from his main phase to "i attack with these guys" (which he did by immediately tapping guys as soon as the hero resolved), you can stop him and back him up to his beginning of combat step before attackers are declared
The beginning of combat step is a valid option, but you can actually back up to the main phase if you want (for example, to trick the opponent into playing something before combat).
The shortcut "I attack with..." that you demand to back up skips not only the whole beginning of combat step but also a part of the main phase, from the moment after Hero of Oxid Ridge resolved to the moment you (supposedly) pass priority after your opponent passes priority ending the main phase.
At this point, after backing up the attack, the opponent passes priority (as part of the shortcut), you play Shock, and after Shock resolves it's still the main phase: mana pools haven't been emptied and the opponent can still play lands, sorceries etc. (changing his mind about proceeding to the combat phase).
I assume it's different for planeswalkers, though, right?
To clarify a little more on previous responses:
If they do anything else besides tapping for mana before they use the planeswalker ability, priority will pass to you, and then you can burn the planeswalker in response to that, and they can't use the walker ability in response because it's sorcery-speed. Most people will never make that mistake, but every so often...
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But instead of giving me even half a second to respond to the resolved Hero, he enters combat as soon as it's on the table and taps all his creatures, spreading Battle Cry across the board.
What's the proper play order here? Am I able to cast Shock at his Hero before he goes into combat? Am I allowed to say "before you go into combat... I'm gonna do this" even though he's already started tapping his attackers, or am I out of luck and have to deal with the Battle Cry effect? Does the player who played the creature with haste still have priority and is able to declare his or her attackers before I'm able to respond to a resolved Hero?
Or did I simply screw up and I should've just cast Shock as soon as I saw the Hero hit the table? (I didn't have much time, his fingers never left the card and he immediately tapped the Hero and all his other creatures as soon as he hit the table)
:symg::symu::symb: The Mimeoplasm
:symg::symu::symb: Damia, Sage of Stone
:symr::symg::symw: Mayael the Anima
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum the Hegemon
:symg::symu: Prime Speaker Zegana
:symb::symr: Olivia Voldaren
:symu::symb: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
:symr::symw: Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Geth, Lord of the Vault
In order for the game to advance from one point to the next all players must be given the chance to act(priority).
You will be able to cast Shock before he can declare attackers.
Ever wanted to know what guidelines Judges use to make rulings? Find out at the DCI Document Center.
You can also find the latest Comprehensive Rules here.
I assume it's different for planeswalkers, though, right?
:symg::symu::symb: The Mimeoplasm
:symg::symu::symb: Damia, Sage of Stone
:symr::symg::symw: Mayael the Anima
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum the Hegemon
:symg::symu: Prime Speaker Zegana
:symb::symr: Olivia Voldaren
:symu::symb: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
:symr::symw: Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Geth, Lord of the Vault
Decks (all casual at this point)
GW(R) Equipment
GBW Treefolk
U Sanity Grinding
U 16 Lord Merfolk
R burn, devastating summons/goblin bushwhacker
W Light From Within
G Wolves
In the sense that they will always get an opportunity to use an activated ability of a planeswalker that just entered the battlefield before you can do something to it?
Yes, that is different, in part because the game does not have to proceed to a different step, so your opponent doesn't have to yield priority.
:symg::symu::symb: The Mimeoplasm
:symg::symu::symb: Damia, Sage of Stone
:symr::symg::symw: Mayael the Anima
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum the Hegemon
:symg::symu: Prime Speaker Zegana
:symb::symr: Olivia Voldaren
:symu::symb: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
:symr::symw: Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Geth, Lord of the Vault
yes, the active player still gets priority to cast spells/activate abilities as soon as the planeswalker spell resolves. this means your opponent can activate a loyalty ability before you are given the opportunity to hit the walker with a shock/lightning bolt/what have you. the planeswalker will still receive the change in loyalty counters (because adding or removing them is a cost, which cannot be responded to) and the ability will go on the stack, then priority is passed to you and you can play your burn spell.
Decks (all casual at this point)
GW(R) Equipment
GBW Treefolk
U Sanity Grinding
U 16 Lord Merfolk
R burn, devastating summons/goblin bushwhacker
W Light From Within
G Wolves
The beginning of combat step is a valid option, but you can actually back up to the main phase if you want (for example, to trick the opponent into playing something before combat).
The shortcut "I attack with..." that you demand to back up skips not only the whole beginning of combat step but also a part of the main phase, from the moment after Hero of Oxid Ridge resolved to the moment you (supposedly) pass priority after your opponent passes priority ending the main phase.
At this point, after backing up the attack, the opponent passes priority (as part of the shortcut), you play Shock, and after Shock resolves it's still the main phase: mana pools haven't been emptied and the opponent can still play lands, sorceries etc. (changing his mind about proceeding to the combat phase).
To clarify a little more on previous responses:
If they do anything else besides tapping for mana before they use the planeswalker ability, priority will pass to you, and then you can burn the planeswalker in response to that, and they can't use the walker ability in response because it's sorcery-speed. Most people will never make that mistake, but every so often...