Is there anything you can do if you know that the head judge ruling is incorrect?
I had someone from school today try and convince me that he was a L2 judge and that you were only allowed 7 copies of a card in a limited environment, even if you opened/picked 8+. And that he ran drafts at his old school with this ruling
Which I then proceeded to print out tournament rule 7.1 to call his bluff.
Which then made me wonder, if I were to go to a draft that he was running, is there anything you can do? Granted this would be casual in this example in which case there is no enforcement, but what if this was a dci sanctioned event he was running. Options?
Pretty much, no. The MTR spells out pretty clearly that the Head Judge is considered to be the final authority for all rulings within the tournament.
The Head Judge is the final judicial authority at any DCI- sanctioned tournament and all tournament participants are expected to follow his or her interpretations.
Pretty much, no. The MTR spells out pretty clearly that the Head Judge is considered to be the final authority for all rulings within the tournament.
Okay, so a judge is also allowed to play in some tournaments.(fnm level ect) What if a judge is wrong about a ruling involving themselves? causing their ruling to possibly be bias? It may not even be that the judge is bias but is simply wrong in favor of themselves. but what would you do? What if the judge was wrong despite nearly all the players in the event siding against him that he was wrong and he wouldnt change his ruling. just asking because this may or may not have come up today.
Okay, so a judge is also allowed to play in some tournaments.(fnm level ect) What if a judge is wrong about a ruling involving themselves? causing their ruling to possibly be bias? It may not even be that the judge is bias but is simply wrong in favor of themselves. but what would you do? What if the judge was wrong despite nearly all the players in the event siding against him that he was wrong and he wouldnt change his ruling. just asking because this may or may not have come up today.
Per the rules, if you don't think a judge's ruling is correct, you can appeal to the Head Judge. What the Head Judge says is final, period, whether or not it's "Biased". Now, if you suspect that your judges are fudging the rules of their own matches, I'm pretty sure you can report that to the DCI, but a mistake in and of itself isn't anything to super-panic about. We're human, we make mistakes. If you have a judge playing at an FNM, though, and his rulings seem to be 'off', especially if you check the rules, or ask the Rulings forum here about it later, and they're ALWAYS off in his favor, that's something you should let the DCI know about.
Per the rules, if you don't think a judge's ruling is correct, you can appeal to the Head Judge. What the Head Judge says is final, period, whether or not it's "Biased". Now, if you suspect that your judges are fudging the rules of their own matches, I'm pretty sure you can report that to the DCI, but a mistake in and of itself isn't anything to super-panic about. We're human, we make mistakes. If you have a judge playing at an FNM, though, and his rulings seem to be 'off', especially if you check the rules, or ask the Rulings forum here about it later, and they're ALWAYS off in his favor, that's something you should let the DCI know about.
Yeah it was a shop owner (the only real judge there), who was arguing about a ruling. Everyone else was arguing against him that he was wrong and even when he pulled up the comprehensive rules he read them one way we read them another way, and he argued still despite it all. it was a low rel but still.
Yeah it was a shop owner (the only real judge there), who was arguing about a ruling. Everyone else was arguing against him that he was wrong and even when he pulled up the comprehensive rules he read them one way we read them another way, and he argued still despite it all. it was a low rel but still.
if he's the TO and the head judge and playing in his own tournament and on top of all of this making incorrect rulings in his favor, report his ass to the DCI. letting people get away with things like that just encourages it in the end.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
I'm not comfortable with a judge playing in an event he's judging, but I guess it happens at Regular REL. When this happens, you can point out to the judge what is the precise rule you think he's misapplying (WRONG attitude: "How can you say something like that? Are you retarded?"; RIGHT attitude: "Are you sure? Have you considered the fact that after this action I should get priority, not my opponent?"). If he still keeps his ruling, you have to stop arguing, otherwise you risk higher penalties.
After the game, you can politely ask him again about the case, after talking about it with another judge, if possible. In general, a good, responsable judge always apologizes to a player after a wrong ruling (I've seen a L3 doing it at a PTQ, he misunderstood the question). Keep in mind that there is always a coordinator you can talk to (L2 in smaller areas, L3 are regional coordinators).
We have a few judges here to like to play in tournaments, so they just rotate weekly who is going to play and who is going to judge. Though the rules state that judging/playing is fine in some situations, the gaming community here respects them much more for not double-dipping because there's really no chance for bias.
This is for the case of serious issues, not "The HJ was wrong on a rules question :(", but I agree that it's important to know that there is a sort of higher appeal - AFTER the event - for tournaments that are particularly terribly misrun.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
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I had someone from school today try and convince me that he was a L2 judge and that you were only allowed 7 copies of a card in a limited environment, even if you opened/picked 8+. And that he ran drafts at his old school with this ruling
Which I then proceeded to print out tournament rule 7.1 to call his bluff.
Which then made me wonder, if I were to go to a draft that he was running, is there anything you can do? Granted this would be casual in this example in which case there is no enforcement, but what if this was a dci sanctioned event he was running. Options?
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
Okay, so a judge is also allowed to play in some tournaments.(fnm level ect) What if a judge is wrong about a ruling involving themselves? causing their ruling to possibly be bias? It may not even be that the judge is bias but is simply wrong in favor of themselves. but what would you do? What if the judge was wrong despite nearly all the players in the event siding against him that he was wrong and he wouldnt change his ruling. just asking because this may or may not have come up today.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
Per the rules, if you don't think a judge's ruling is correct, you can appeal to the Head Judge. What the Head Judge says is final, period, whether or not it's "Biased". Now, if you suspect that your judges are fudging the rules of their own matches, I'm pretty sure you can report that to the DCI, but a mistake in and of itself isn't anything to super-panic about. We're human, we make mistakes. If you have a judge playing at an FNM, though, and his rulings seem to be 'off', especially if you check the rules, or ask the Rulings forum here about it later, and they're ALWAYS off in his favor, that's something you should let the DCI know about.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
Yeah it was a shop owner (the only real judge there), who was arguing about a ruling. Everyone else was arguing against him that he was wrong and even when he pulled up the comprehensive rules he read them one way we read them another way, and he argued still despite it all. it was a low rel but still.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
if he's the TO and the head judge and playing in his own tournament and on top of all of this making incorrect rulings in his favor, report his ass to the DCI. letting people get away with things like that just encourages it in the end.
After the game, you can politely ask him again about the case, after talking about it with another judge, if possible. In general, a good, responsable judge always apologizes to a player after a wrong ruling (I've seen a L3 doing it at a PTQ, he misunderstood the question). Keep in mind that there is always a coordinator you can talk to (L2 in smaller areas, L3 are regional coordinators).
As said earlier, it was the Shop Owner.
Edit: Well the second story was lol.
Standard:
UWB Control
Modern:
UWR Midrange/Control
UW Control
EDH:
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
G Omnath, Locus of Mana
BUG The Mimeoplasm
"I just wanted to add a link to the Regional Coordinator page, so people would know who to contact if they are having problems with a judge or TO."
http://wiki.dcifamily.org/index.php/Regional_Coordinators
This is for the case of serious issues, not "The HJ was wrong on a rules question :(", but I agree that it's important to know that there is a sort of higher appeal - AFTER the event - for tournaments that are particularly terribly misrun.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.