Luminarch Ascension, Protection, Blocking, & Creature Removal

  • #1
    Path to Exile
    Luminarch Ascension

    If my opponent assigns a blocker during combat, does my opponent take damage from my attacker if I Path to Exile his blocking creature? Or would I have to exile his creature before he can assign it as a blocker?

    Also, can I activate Luminarch Ascension during my opponent's attack phase to cast Angels as blockers?
    Last edited by Free 7hinker: 3/24/2010 1:17:02 AM

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  • #2
    1. If you Path after the creature is assigned as a blocker, then your attacker will deal no damage (unless it has trample). Blocked creatures deal no damage, and removing the blocker doesn't change the "blocked" status. If you Path before the blocker, then you're safe... as long as they don't have another creature to block with.

    2. Yes. You can activate the Ascension whenever you have can cast instants.
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  • #3
    Quote from azngenius
    1. If you Path after the creature is assigned as a blocker, then your attacker will deal no damage (unless it has trample). Blocked creatures deal no damage, and removing the blocker doesn't change the "blocked" status. If you Path before the blocker, then you're safe... as long as they don't have another creature to block with.

    2. Yes. You can activate the Ascension whenever you have can cast instants.


    What about if I'm attacking with 3 creatures, he assigns 3 blockers, but then I play "Brave the Elements" to gain protection...he wouldn't be able to block, so would my damage go directly to my opponent?

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  • #4
    No. Once blockers have been declared, the attacking creatures have been blocked. It doesn't matter if the blocking creatures disappear or leave combat or suddenly can't block, the attacker has still been blocked. And once an attacker has been blocked, it won't deal combat damage to the defending player unless it has trample or something of the sort.

    Note that if you played Brave the Elements before blockers were declared, then the opponent can't block at all. But since you played it afterward, the creatures are still blocking. Protection won't remove them from combat.

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  • #5
    Quote from indomitablebug
    No. Once blockers have been declared, the attacking creatures have been blocked. It doesn't matter if the blocking creatures disappear or leave combat or suddenly can't block, the attacker has still been blocked. And once an attacker has been blocked, it won't deal combat damage to the defending player unless it has trample or something of the sort.


    That doesn't make much sense, though. "Protection" means that a creature can't be blocked by a blocker of the color type it has protection from...for example, if my opponent attacks with Malakir Bloodwitch, I wouldn't be able to block her with Baneslayer Angel. Why is it different for Brave the Elements? The spell is an instant so wouldn't his blockers lose the ability to block, regardless that they were assigned as blockers?

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  • #6
    Quote from Free 7hinker
    What about if I'm attacking with 3 creatures, he assigns 3 blockers, but then I play "Brave the Elements" to gain protection...he wouldn't be able to block, so would my damage go directly to my opponent?


    Blocking has already happened. The impossibility of a sort of occurrence doesn't reverse it retroactively (except in casting spells...).


    That is, protection makes it illegal 'to become blocking' - to block - the creature. It doesn't make it impossible to *be* blocking the creature.

    They are still blocking the creature. Your Brave the Elements came too late after the point where they "blocked" it.

    The repository of English verb forms isn't helping, I know.


    EDIT: Ended up posting as an answer to Free 7hinker's followup question.


    EDIT2: Here, let me make this explicit:


    The creatures are currently: Blocking the attacker. The attacker is blocked by those creatures.

    It's *not* true to say that those creatures 'block' the attacker. In the jargon of Magic, that statement is about something that happens, and that thing already happened. It is only true to say those creatures "blocked" the attacker, as a statement about the game's history.

    Protection means something "can't block" something else. It stops the thing that happens, not the condition that persists. It's ambiguous to say it "stops blocking", which is why careful rules people (and just anal-retentive people like me) won't ever say that.


    Main point: There are two terms. One is a quality that things in combat possess. One is an action or event that players can make creatures undertake, whose principle consequence is to bring about the aforementioned quality.
    Last edited by Horseshoe_Hermit: 3/24/2010 1:12:44 AM
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  • #7
    Quote from Horseshoe_Hermit
    Blocking has already happened. The impossibility of a sort of occurrence doesn't reverse it retroactively (except in casting spells...).


    That is, protection makes it illegal 'to become blocking' - to block - the creature. It doesn't make it impossible to *be* blocking the creature.

    They are still blocking the creature. Your Brave the Elements came too late after the point where they "blocked" it.

    The repository of English verb forms isn't helping, I know.


    EDIT: Ended up posting as an answer to Free 7hinker's followup question.


    What about when I use Brave the Elements defensively?

    Example:

    My opponent attacks with 3 Vampire Nighthawk...

    I choose to block with my 3 creatures and then play Brave the Elements...my creatures wouldn't die because they'd gain protection from black, right? But if my creatures power are more than his 3 creature's defense, then his Nighthawks die, right?

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  • #8
    Yes. The damage that would be dealt to your creatures is prevented, but it does nothing to prevent the damage that your creatures deal. They deal damage as normal.
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  • #9
    Quote from azngenius
    Yes. The damage that would be dealt to your creatures is prevented, but it does nothing to prevent the damage that your creatures deal. They deal damage as normal.


    That's what I mean, so would his 3 Nighthawks die as a result? I'd gain protection from his Nighthawks, but he wouldn't have protection from my creatures...so his Nighthawks would die from my 3 creatures and my creatures would stay alive.

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  • #10
    As long as your creatures deal enough damage to the nighthawks to destroy them, yes, they would die, and your creatures would stay alive.

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  • #11
    Quote from indomitablebug
    As long as your creatures deal enough damage to the nighthawks to destroy them, yes, they would die, and your creatures would stay alive.


    Ok, so I just have to remember to play Brave the Elements before my opponent assigns blockers. Thanks, guys.

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  • #12
    A helpful rule for you to remember is that when one of your attacking creatures becomes blocked, that creature is marked as "blocked" for the remained of that combat. NOTHING you can do can make that creature "unblocked", even if you give it protection, destroy the blocking creature, etc.
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