Both opalescence and humility are on the battle field what happens? Does humility take away from itself its own ability? After taking away its own ability wouldn't the other enchantments get back their abilities? I think this creates an unbreakable infinite loop.
This is a popular question which comes down to layers.
612.1. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
612.1a Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, "Copying Objects."
612.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.
612.1c Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 611, "Text-Changing Effects."
612.1d Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. This includes effects that change an object's card type, subtype, and/or supertype.
612.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied.
612.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied.
612.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
My understanding is not rock-solid, but I think this is how it goes: Opalescence is applied, making all enchantments creatures (layer 4). Then Humility is applied: firstly all creatures lose all abilities (layer 6), then all creatures become 1/1 (layer 7). So you end up with all enchantments being 1/1 vanilla creatures.
ok I'm a little confused. So humility's ability is applied to all creatures and enchantments when opalescence is on the battlefield. So wouldn't humility take away opalescence's ability? Would my 5 mana cost enchantment be a 1/1?
According to the layers, Humility does take away Opalescence's abilities, but only after they have already been applied, turning all enchantments into creatures. Then it makes all creatures 1/1. So yes, your 5-cost will be 1/1.
As Gregg said, Humility has no effect on Opalescence. The greater question is how Humility affects itself once it is a creature. Under the layers posted above:
Opalescence makes all enchantments creatures.
Humility removes all abilities from creatures (including itself)
So all enchantments become P/T equal to the CMC since Humility's ability to change their P/T is now removed.
My only question now is whether Humility's ability to remove abilities is now gone, thus allowing its ability to come back, so its ability then removes its ability again, etc. I believe that was the OPs original question.
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Extended: RGW Zoo WGR
Legacy: RUG Canadian Thresh GUR
If opalescence has the more recent tmestamp, all enchantments will be creatures with P/T equal to their CMC. If humility was more recent, they will be 1/1.
It helps to think of these effects as layers of paint applied one on top of another, and not sequentially applied one after another. The presence or absence of an ability in the end result isn't important to how its effect is applied, only whether it exists at the point in the layers where the ability is applied. "Loops" are not possible.
1) There is no "timestamp issue." Opalesence is always applied in a "lower" layer than Humility.
2) It does not matter if Humlity removes Opalesence's ability, since it only does so in a "higher" layer.
However, since one Opalesencs does not animate itself, Humility does not appliy to it at all. If there are two, they both end up as 1/1 creatures with no abilities, regardless of timestamp.
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Would march of the machines Mycosynth Lattice and humility create an infinite loop? On a side note would march of the machines and lattice turn all lands into 0/0s?
My understanding is not rock-solid, but I think this is how it goes: Opalescence is applied, making all enchantments creatures (layer 4). Then Humility is applied: firstly all creatures lose all abilities (layer 6), then all creatures become 1/1 (layer 7). So you end up with all enchantments being 1/1 vanilla creatures.
Opalescence makes all enchantments creatures.
Humility removes all abilities from creatures (including itself)
So all enchantments become P/T equal to the CMC since Humility's ability to change their P/T is now removed.
My only question now is whether Humility's ability to remove abilities is now gone, thus allowing its ability to come back, so its ability then removes its ability again, etc. I believe that was the OPs original question.
BRG Jund Midrange GRB //// B Vampire Aggro B //// WRU Patriot Control URW
Extended:
RGW Zoo WGR
Legacy:
RUG Canadian Thresh GUR
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U //// WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion BW //// UR Jhoira of the Ghitu RU
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If opalescence has the more recent tmestamp, all enchantments will be creatures with P/T equal to their CMC. If humility was more recent, they will be 1/1.
1) There is no "timestamp issue." Opalesence is always applied in a "lower" layer than Humility.
2) It does not matter if Humlity removes Opalesence's ability, since it only does so in a "higher" layer.
However, since one Opalesencs does not animate itself, Humility does not appliy to it at all. If there are two, they both end up as 1/1 creatures with no abilities, regardless of timestamp.