Bond of Agony

  • #1
    ok... according to a recent article on this site... if you cascade (or any other play without paying the mana cost ability) into bond of agony, you can choose what X will be (as long as you have the life to pay for it)... my question is... if this is true, and i choose to pay 19 life... will the CMC of bond of agony on the stack be 20? (and thus nearly uncounterable with spellstutter sprite)
    Last edited by CU7L45: 6/7/2009 10:00:50 AM
    Card nicknames-(via my group of friends):
    figure of destiny = charmander
    mulldrifter = counsel-man
    profane command = pro manuver
  • #2
    Quote from CU7L45
    ok... according to a recent article on this site... if you cascade (or any other play without paying the mana cost ability) into bond of agony, you can choose what X will be (as long as you have the life to pay for it... my question is... if this is true, and i choose to pay 19 life... will the CMC of bond of agony on the stack be 20? (and thus nearly uncounterable with spellstutter sprite)
    Is it true? We don't know. There are two different, contradictory readings of the rule in question, both with precedent to support their argument. The question has been referred to those with the authority to give [O] fficial answers. Until a ruling is issued, we cannot say yay or nay.

    What will the CMC of the spell on the stack be? 1+X. This is true whether or not you are allowed to choose a value for X, or have to choose 0. Remember, when you play a spell, you choose X first, then calculate the cost based on the chosen value for X.
    Lapsed Rules Adviser.
  • #3
    Based on other ways of playing cards with X in them besides casting them from your hand, I say X=0 if you play bonds of agony from cascade. Look at what happens if you remove a fireball with Intet, the Dreamer. X = 0 if you use an alternate way to cast an x spell. If you are not paying the mana cost for a spell with X in its mana cost, then X = 0.

    Bond of Agony says "as an additional cost, pay X life." You don't get to choose what X is in this case with cascade, so it is 0. So you pay an 0 life as an additional cost.
    Rules Advisor
  • #4

    As an additional cost to play bond of agony, pay X life.


    No, it's not a valid move. You played bond via cascade, and the X of it is 0. The amount of life you pay into it is equal to the mana you poured into it. You didn't pay any mana into X, you can pay exactly that much life into it.
  • #5
    im aware of playing 'normal' x spells off cascade... however... as Merestil Haye pointed out, bond of agony may be the exception to the rule... refer to a multitude of forums to see the debate (yay google)...

    also... who is the FINAL word on rulings?... and why dont we get them involved so the debate ends?
    Last edited by CU7L45: 6/7/2009 9:59:46 AM
    Card nicknames-(via my group of friends):
    figure of destiny = charmander
    mulldrifter = counsel-man
    profane command = pro manuver
  • #6
    You can choose X depending on your life total - this is clearly stated by the CR.

    The confusion regarding this combo is mostly caused by a very old mail and a could-be-clearer Glossary: X.

    There is a section about the common interaction: "x in manacost + without paying manacost -> x = 0", but this doesn't apply to a case with a variable in the additional costs, which you still have to choose and pay.

    ----------------------

    CR

    409.1b [...]If the spell or ability has a variable cost that will be paid as it’s being
    played (such as an {X} in its mana cost), the player announces the value of that variable at this
    time. [...]

    X
    [...]If a spell or activated ability has a cost with an “{X}” in it, and the value of X isn’t defined by the text
    of that spell or ability, the controller of that spell or ability chooses and announces the value of X as part of
    playing the spell or ability. (See rule 409, “Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.”)[...]
    DCI Level 1 Judge
  • #7
    I think the biggest confusion here is with what X means what. Here is how I see it:

    Cascade into Bonds of Agony, X in the mana cost gets set to 0, initially setting all instances of X in the cards to 0. Now additional cost ruling applies allowing you to pay the X in any amount of life you choose. This however, does not change the previously set instances of X to the amount in additional costs, becuase additional costs do not change the CMC (example: kicker). The mana cost X still remains 0 and the opponent loses life equal to the X in the mana cost, not additional cost.

    However, if the card read: "your opponent loses life equal to the amount of life you paid", then it would work as many would hope. Then again, magic rulings are always more intricate then simple, so we will see.
    Last edited by Bankai: 6/7/2009 11:13:54 AM
  • #8
    Thread locked. We're still awaiting an [O]fficial answer and until we get one we don't need yet another thread discussing the same question.
    I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
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