I control both cards have gained no other amount of life earlier in the turn. My End Step begins and Shanna's Ability is placed on the stack, I get priority before it resolves, I tap my Pristine Talisman for a and 1 life, I then pass to resolve the ability. The ability begins to resolve and I'm asked to pay into . I pay the mana generated by the talisman easily enough.
However, for the sake of understanding the rules of the game. If I wait for the ability to begin resolving and activate the Pristine Talisman during cost payment, does the ability acknowledge that life was gained and increase the allowance for or is that restriction set as soon as the ability begins resolution and does not increase during the actual payment?
Since the effect of Shanna's triggered ability "gives [you] the option to pay mana, [you] may activate mana abilities before taking that action" (C.R. 608.2g). In particular, if these mana abilities cause you to gain life, this will count towards the amount of life you've gained this turn for purposes of determining what the {X} on Shanna's triggered ability can be.
107.3c If a spell or activated ability has an {X}, [-X], or X in its cost and/or its text, and the value of X is defined by the text of that spell or ability, then that’s the value of X while that spell or ability is on the stack. The controller of that spell or ability doesn’t get to choose the value. Note that the value of X may change while that spell or ability is on the stack.
At some point during your turn, that triggered ability, with the X, will be saying what it says with X = 0, then it will read with X = 1. All you have to do is pay the when the X actually is 1, which happens after you make the mana.
... though interestingly, this does depend on 608.2g regarding the situation of "being asked to pay " as an instance of being asked to pay mana, even though is a "placeholder for a cost that can be paid with no resources." (CR 107.4d) Furthermore, consulting 118.5 as 107.4d directs, yields this unfortunately specific statement:
118.5. Some costs are represented by {0}, or are reduced to {0}. The action necessary for a player to pay such a cost is the player’s acknowledgment that they are paying it. Even though such a cost requires no resources, it’s not automatically paid.
The "action necessary" is [some kind of thing that doesn't involve mana at all]. So is "you may pay " an instance of "being asked to pay mana" ?
So, my case here is that, if an effect's text has a "you may pay " (or a "pay "), do the rules as written actually let you activate mana abilities during the special timing in the resolution of that spell or ability? Perhaps not. In that case, technically you can't use Pristine Talisman with that timing. Because the ability on the stack has X = 0 at that point. You can still activate before the trigger begins resolving, of course.
Rules as intended may be that pay is still paying mana, though it is imaginable that could backfire somewhere. Alternately, perhaps the fact the symbol still is and not can be used to dispense special permission here.
Thanks for the question.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Epic banner by Erasmus of æтђєг.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
I control both cards have gained no other amount of life earlier in the turn. My End Step begins and Shanna's Ability is placed on the stack, I get priority before it resolves, I tap my Pristine Talisman for a and 1 life, I then pass to resolve the ability. The ability begins to resolve and I'm asked to pay into . I pay the mana generated by the talisman easily enough.
However, for the sake of understanding the rules of the game. If I wait for the ability to begin resolving and activate the Pristine Talisman during cost payment, does the ability acknowledge that life was gained and increase the allowance for or is that restriction set as soon as the ability begins resolution and does not increase during the actual payment?
At some point during your turn, that triggered ability, with the X, will be saying what it says with X = 0, then it will read with X = 1. All you have to do is pay the when the X actually is 1, which happens after you make the mana.
... though interestingly, this does depend on 608.2g regarding the situation of "being asked to pay " as an instance of being asked to pay mana, even though is a "placeholder for a cost that can be paid with no resources." (CR 107.4d) Furthermore, consulting 118.5 as 107.4d directs, yields this unfortunately specific statement:
The "action necessary" is [some kind of thing that doesn't involve mana at all]. So is "you may pay " an instance of "being asked to pay mana" ?
So, my case here is that, if an effect's text has a "you may pay " (or a "pay "), do the rules as written actually let you activate mana abilities during the special timing in the resolution of that spell or ability? Perhaps not. In that case, technically you can't use Pristine Talisman with that timing. Because the ability on the stack has X = 0 at that point. You can still activate before the trigger begins resolving, of course.
Rules as intended may be that pay is still paying mana, though it is imaginable that could backfire somewhere. Alternately, perhaps the fact the symbol still is and not can be used to dispense special permission here.
Thanks for the question.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].