With Maskwood Nexus, Conspiracy, or Arcane Adaptation in play, I would like to use Scion of the Ur-Dragon's ability to tutor for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. I think I can do this, but I want to make sure. Kozilek will return to my library with the rest of its contents when my graveyard is shuffled back into my library, but it does go to the library before that happens, doesn't it?
The Scion's ability is resolving when you put Kozilek into your graveyard. But it is not finished with that, so the Eldrazi's trigger has to wait until it can go on the stack. Next thing that happens is the Scion turning into Kozilek. Next you shuffle. Finally, the ability is done resolving and removed from the stack. SBAs are checked, and the waiting trigger can go on the stack. Eventually it resolves and you shuffle the contents of your graveyard, which includes Kozilek, back into your library.
This works because Kozilek touches the graveyard (a public zone) before the shuffle.
Replacement effect shufflers (e.g. Blightsteel Colossus) will not work with the Scion because a hidden zone to hidden zone move will prevent the game from knowing any information about the object.
Replacement effect shufflers (e.g. Blightsteel Colossus) will not work with the Scion because a hidden zone to hidden zone move will prevent the game from knowing any information about the object.
Only if the replacement effect doesn't require the card to be revealed. Progenitus, Blightsteel Colossus, Wheel of Sun and Moon etc. all require a reveal, and so the Scion still get the nessessary information to copy.
That thread lacks any relevant rules quoting to support its conclusion. (There's some rule quoted about hand to hidden zone moves apparently made to deal with a few older cards but nothing on point.) Could you help me by providing any rules to support it?
That thread lacks any relevant rules quoting to support its conclusion. (There's some rule quoted about hand to hidden zone moves apparently made to deal with a few older cards but nothing on point.) Could you help me by providing any rules to support it?
The situation involving comment 1, Blightsteel Colossus, and Scion of the Ur-Dragon involves shuffling a card in a library into that library; strictly speaking it doesn't involve a card moving from one zone to another (compare with C.R. 400.7).
Under C.R. 701.16c, if "cards in a player’s library are shuffled or otherwise reordered, any revealed cards that are reordered stop being revealed and become new objects". Thus, if a card found with Scion of the Ur-Dragon would go to the graveyard, but is revealed and shuffled into its owner's library (or otherwise reordered in that library) instead, the revealed card becomes a new object and can no longer be found by the effect that makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon become a copy of that card. (In a similar vein, a card can be exiled from exile and, if it is, it becomes a new object there [C.R. 406.7].)
That the Scion's effect cannot find the object anymore should be irrelevant, it is not targeting it. It should simply use Last Known Information about that object if it can't find it. And since the object was revealed, all its characteristics at that time are known and the copy process should be unimpeded.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Replacement effect shufflers (e.g. Blightsteel Colossus) will not work with the Scion because a hidden zone to hidden zone move will prevent the game from knowing any information about the object.
Only if the replacement effect doesn't require the card to be revealed. Progenitus, Blightsteel Colossus, Wheel of Sun and Moon etc. all require a reveal, and so the Scion still get the nessessary information to copy.
See this (admittedly quite dated) thread:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/300848-scion-of-the-ur-dragon-and-wheel-of-sun-and-moon
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
That thread lacks any relevant rules quoting to support its conclusion. (There's some rule quoted about hand to hidden zone moves apparently made to deal with a few older cards but nothing on point.) Could you help me by providing any rules to support it?
Under C.R. 701.16c, if "cards in a player’s library are shuffled or otherwise reordered, any revealed cards that are reordered stop being revealed and become new objects". Thus, if a card found with Scion of the Ur-Dragon would go to the graveyard, but is revealed and shuffled into its owner's library (or otherwise reordered in that library) instead, the revealed card becomes a new object and can no longer be found by the effect that makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon become a copy of that card. (In a similar vein, a card can be exiled from exile and, if it is, it becomes a new object there [C.R. 406.7].)
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
https://twitter.com/dbernat32/status/1457146187056926720?s=21