Hi all, I got a question regarding triggered abilities, but where the source of the ability on itself no longer being on the battlefield, and specifically when it triggers of itself being put into a graveyard.
Example: My opponent destroys my Tablet of Epityr with a Shatter. As far as I can understand, I can still activate the ability to gain 1 life. Another similar example could be with Urza's Miter being destroyed. (note that this is now worded as a triggered ability and not an activated ability as printed on the card)
The oracle text has no additional rulings clarifications for these two cards, but from the additional rulings for Soul Net (and in the rare case where it gets animated and then dies) it seems that there rules work like I anticipate. Also the rulings for Aetherworks Marvel suggests that it also triggers when itself is put into a graveyard. I actually also just can't understand why there are rulings for this for Soul Net, but not for Tablet of Epityr, when the first requires a very specific and much rarer case. This seems very incomplete to me.
But my real question is: Where can I find the specific rulings that applies for these cases? For me, it seems counterintuitive that an effect of a card that is put into the graveyard still will trigger of itself. I thought maybe CR 113.7a and 608.2h could cover the rulings for these cases, but I am not sure really.
I hope some of you have the explanation or reference to the specific rules!
113.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, “Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to any target”) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source for use while announcing an activated ability or putting a triggered ability on the stack checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
There is also this rule:
603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability “Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life.” Someone casts a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact’s ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner’s graveyard at the same time as the creatures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
I wasn't aware of ruling 603.10 and 603.10a, and those are very useful for me in order to clear previous misconceptions that I might had, especially the point where the game "looks back in time" to check if those abilites trigger. I guess also that is why it felt unintuitive to me, but now I know
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Example: My opponent destroys my Tablet of Epityr with a Shatter. As far as I can understand, I can still activate the ability to gain 1 life. Another similar example could be with Urza's Miter being destroyed. (note that this is now worded as a triggered ability and not an activated ability as printed on the card)
The oracle text has no additional rulings clarifications for these two cards, but from the additional rulings for Soul Net (and in the rare case where it gets animated and then dies) it seems that there rules work like I anticipate. Also the rulings for Aetherworks Marvel suggests that it also triggers when itself is put into a graveyard. I actually also just can't understand why there are rulings for this for Soul Net, but not for Tablet of Epityr, when the first requires a very specific and much rarer case. This seems very incomplete to me.
But my real question is: Where can I find the specific rulings that applies for these cases? For me, it seems counterintuitive that an effect of a card that is put into the graveyard still will trigger of itself. I thought maybe CR 113.7a and 608.2h could cover the rulings for these cases, but I am not sure really.
I hope some of you have the explanation or reference to the specific rules!
- Zappa from Cairo
There is also this rule:
I wasn't aware of ruling 603.10 and 603.10a, and those are very useful for me in order to clear previous misconceptions that I might had, especially the point where the game "looks back in time" to check if those abilites trigger. I guess also that is why it felt unintuitive to me, but now I know