Just looking for some clarification here. I know that if a creature has a -1-1 counter on it and it receives a +1+1 counter, they basically cancel each other out. My question is though, is the counter removed from the creature? The reason I ask is because it plays a significant role in how cards such as KulRath Knight and Crumbling Ashes work. If the counter is removed, then these cards abilities do not affect a creature. I would assume the affect of the -1-1 counter is cancelled out by a +1+1 counter but the counter itself still sticks to the creature.
I'm building a deck that revolves around wither and I know this is going to be a question that pops up when I use the deck. Thanks in advance for your help.
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-MadMage
As a state based action when plus counters and minus counters are both on a creature you will remove X counters of each type where X is the lesser number of each type. So if you have 2 minus counters and 4 plus counters you will have just 2 plus. If you have 10 minus and 1 plus you will have 9 minus. The main take away however is that this happens as a statebased action. So if an undying creature with a plus counter on it has enough minus counters placed on it for it to have toughness less than 0 it will go to the GY as having both types of counters on it so it will not trigger undying.
It hasn't always been the case, but it's been established in the rules a good number of years ago that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters do indeed *remove* each other as a state-based action. Here's the rule that specifies this:
704.5q. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
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The only kinds of counters that a state-based action can remove are +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters, and then only in pairs (C.R. 704.5q). No other kinds of counters are removed this way even if their net change in power and toughness is 0 (review C.R. 704). For example, a creature with a +2/+2 counter and two -1/-1 counters, and no other counters, on it will not have any of those counters removed. (Nonetheless, for a long time the only kinds of power-/toughness-changing counters that have been employed by new Magic cards have been +1/+1 and -1/-1.)
Just looking for some clarification here. I know that if a creature has a -1-1 counter on it and it receives a +1+1 counter, they basically cancel each other out. My question is though, is the counter removed from the creature? The reason I ask is because it plays a significant role in how cards such as KulRath Knight and Crumbling Ashes work. If the counter is removed, then these cards abilities do not affect a creature. I would assume the affect of the -1-1 counter is cancelled out by a +1+1 counter but the counter itself still sticks to the creature.
I'm building a deck that revolves around wither and I know this is going to be a question that pops up when I use the deck. Thanks in advance for your help.
Using card tags is mandatory in the Magic Rulings forum. Please check your private messages to learn how to use them. I've added them for this post.
-MadMage
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