Im playing TW. Going into combat, I have one card in hand and it is Eternal Dragon. I swing in with one 2/2 cat, Gavi, and crystalline resonance that is a copy of Aurelia. I say aditional combat triggers and untap. Move to blocks, opponent blocks Aurelia with Aurelia, the cat with an 8/8, Gavi with an 8/8 I cycle E drag, change Crystalline to Ohran and say all my creatures have deathtouch and exile the other nonblocking 8/8 with Astral Slide.
Then announce that all blocking creatures, my cat and Gavi all die.
Opponent says no and has an evolving argument.
1st says that i get no additional combat step, i say fine i dont need it any way 2nd says all my creatures dont have deathtouch because blockers were already declared which i refuse to believe
3rd says that Aurelia was blocking Aurelia not a snake, i say no it was blockin a permanent that was a creature that turned into another creature with deathtouch and we go back to the deathtouch argument.
I proceeded to look for the crystalline turning from one creature into another during combat and found no results. I then said fine and lost. If there are any judges or any one who knows how this interaction should have played out, please help. Ive got a good feeling i am right.
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-MadMage
Auraleia's trigger goes off and resolves during the declare attacker step. So you untap all your creatures and get an additional combat phase no matter what at that point, even if your Aurelia is not around at the time of the trigger's resolution anymore or is not Aurelia anymore.
Ohran Frostfang's first ability is a static ability generating a continous effect, and thus is updated immediately and applied to all permanents it matters to. Attacking creaures remain attacking creatures until they are removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever happens first. So your attacking creatures all have deathtouch when combat damage is dealt. A creature turning from a creature to a noncreature removes it from combat, but turning a creature into another does not.
I don't see how Aurelia blocking Aurelia ,and not being a snake, has any bearings on this. nothing on these cards cares about snakes in any way.
EDIT: Ah, I think, I get what this is about. He claims that Aurelia was blocking an Aurelia, and her now blocking a snake should make a difference. It doesn't. So long as the permanent she blocked is the same one she blocked and is a creature, she will deal combat damage to it, and she will be dealt combat damage by it. Changing the characteristics of that creature does not make it a different permanent. By his "logic", casting Giant Growth on an attacking or blocking creature would also be utterly pointless, as the target would also not be the same. That's obviously not true.
Your understanding is 100% correct, things happen as you described. Their Aurelia was blocking a creature that looked like herself and was represented by the Crystalline Resonance card; that creature changed characteristics when it became a copy of Ohran Frostfang, but it's still the same permanent being blocked by Aurelia. Ohran Frostfang's ability is a static one, which applies to creatures its controller controls for as long as they are attacking creatures, and attacking creatures remain attacking creatures until end of combat. Deathtouch matters at the time damage happens, your creatures had it in time for it to fully work. Oh, and you do get a second combat phase, all you need for it to happen is for Aurelia's triggered ability to trigger and resolve, which it did because you attacked with a copy of Aurelia. Doesn't matter what happens to that Aurelia after its ability triggered.
I'd advise against playing with people such as this one, who try to invent rules to their advantage instead of learning the real ones.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
The situation could have worked more in your favor here.
When Crystalline-Resonance-turned-Aurelia's triggered ability resolves here, you untap all creatures you control and, moreover, an additional combat phase will happen no matter what happens to Crystalline-Resonance-turned-Aurelia (so even if that permanent leaves the battlefield or becomes a copy of something else) (see also C.R. 113.7a).
Moreover, even though Crystalline Resonance became blocked while it was Aurelia, you assign combat damage taking into account Crystalline Resonance's characteristics at the time you assign combat damage (not at the time it was blocked) (C.R. 510.1), which in this case include the deathtouch ability (from Ohran Frostfang) as well as the power and toughness of 2/6 (C.R. 613.1, 613.1a, 613.1f). You also take into account the characteristics of other attacking and blocking creatures at the moment you assign combat damage. For example, in this scenario, you take into account the fact that Crystalline-Resonance-turned-Ohran-Frostfang grants all "[a]ttacking creatures you control ... deathtouch".
Thank you all. Crystalline Resonance is such a cool card that displays the power of blue. Its nice to be armed with this eloquent post for future confrontations.
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Board state(im only goin to list relevant items)
PG: Aurelia, the warleader, Three 8/8 tokens with vig, Ohran Frostfang
TW: Crystalline Resonance, Astral Slide, Gavi, Nest Warden and two 2/2 dino cats(one cat is summon sickn)
Im playing TW. Going into combat, I have one card in hand and it is Eternal Dragon. I swing in with one 2/2 cat, Gavi, and crystalline resonance that is a copy of Aurelia. I say aditional combat triggers and untap. Move to blocks, opponent blocks Aurelia with Aurelia, the cat with an 8/8, Gavi with an 8/8 I cycle E drag, change Crystalline to Ohran and say all my creatures have deathtouch and exile the other nonblocking 8/8 with Astral Slide.
Then announce that all blocking creatures, my cat and Gavi all die.
Opponent says no and has an evolving argument.
1st says that i get no additional combat step, i say fine i dont need it any way 2nd says all my creatures dont have deathtouch because blockers were already declared which i refuse to believe
3rd says that Aurelia was blocking Aurelia not a snake, i say no it was blockin a permanent that was a creature that turned into another creature with deathtouch and we go back to the deathtouch argument.
I proceeded to look for the crystalline turning from one creature into another during combat and found no results. I then said fine and lost. If there are any judges or any one who knows how this interaction should have played out, please help. Ive got a good feeling i am right.
Using card tags is mandatory in the Magic Rulings forum. Please check your private messages to learn how to use them. I've added them for this post.
-MadMage
Ohran Frostfang's first ability is a static ability generating a continous effect, and thus is updated immediately and applied to all permanents it matters to. Attacking creaures remain attacking creatures until they are removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever happens first. So your attacking creatures all have deathtouch when combat damage is dealt. A creature turning from a creature to a noncreature removes it from combat, but turning a creature into another does not.
I don't see how Aurelia blocking Aurelia ,and not being a snake, has any bearings on this. nothing on these cards cares about snakes in any way.
EDIT: Ah, I think, I get what this is about. He claims that Aurelia was blocking an Aurelia, and her now blocking a snake should make a difference. It doesn't. So long as the permanent she blocked is the same one she blocked and is a creature, she will deal combat damage to it, and she will be dealt combat damage by it. Changing the characteristics of that creature does not make it a different permanent. By his "logic", casting Giant Growth on an attacking or blocking creature would also be utterly pointless, as the target would also not be the same. That's obviously not true.
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I'd advise against playing with people such as this one, who try to invent rules to their advantage instead of learning the real ones.
When Crystalline-Resonance-turned-Aurelia's triggered ability resolves here, you untap all creatures you control and, moreover, an additional combat phase will happen no matter what happens to Crystalline-Resonance-turned-Aurelia (so even if that permanent leaves the battlefield or becomes a copy of something else) (see also C.R. 113.7a).
Moreover, even though Crystalline Resonance became blocked while it was Aurelia, you assign combat damage taking into account Crystalline Resonance's characteristics at the time you assign combat damage (not at the time it was blocked) (C.R. 510.1), which in this case include the deathtouch ability (from Ohran Frostfang) as well as the power and toughness of 2/6 (C.R. 613.1, 613.1a, 613.1f). You also take into account the characteristics of other attacking and blocking creatures at the moment you assign combat damage. For example, in this scenario, you take into account the fact that Crystalline-Resonance-turned-Ohran-Frostfang grants all "[a]ttacking creatures you control ... deathtouch".