I have a Gruul Ragebeast and Gyruda, Doom of Depths on the battlefield, Ragebeast's trigger is "Whenever Gruul Ragebeast or another creature enters the battlefield under your control, that creature fights target creature an opponent controls."
Gyruda has it's own ETB trigger and it's Legendary. I cast a second Gyruda from my hand. My question is, does this cause BOTH ETB triggers to happen for Ragebeast and the second Gyruda? Will the second Gyruda that entered the battlefield cause my opponent to mill four cards and fight a target creature my opponent controls BEFORE I have to sacrifice it (Legend rule)?
Both triggers are simultaneous: they both trigger upon Gyruda entering the battlefield.
In such a case, YOU decide the order they will resolve. (rule 603.3b)
As for your second question, I'm not sure I understand how a second Gyruda would come into play... please elaborate.
In any case, State-based actions are dealt with first, before any triggered abilities, so a double-legend would die before it can fight. (rule 704.3)
My bad, my mind thinking ahead of my typing. To clarify my second question, I am casting the second Gyruda from my hand, Gyruda enters the battlefield, what takes place first? The Legend rule or the ETB triggers for both the second Gyruda and Gruul Ragebeast?
As for your second question, I'm not sure I understand how a second Gyruda would come into play... please elaborate.
Probably Gyruda's triggered ability; a second Gyruda card (assuming they're not playing Commander) would qualify as a "creature card with an even converted mana cost".
If they keep the first Gyruda, the Ragebeast's trigger would be nerfed but the Gyruda's own trigger would work just fine. If they keep the second Gyruda (which is probably undamaged), both triggers work as they did for the first Gyruda.
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
My bad, my mind thinking ahead of my typing. To clarify my second question, I am casting the second Gyruda from my hand, Gyruda enters the battlefield, what takes place first? The Legend rule or the ETB triggers for both the second Gyruda and Gruul Ragebeast?
The state-based actions are performed before triggered abilities are put on the stack.
704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 117, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.
704.5j If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.”
Note that a choice that removes the new Gyruda will not "un-trigger" any abilities that are waiting to go on the stack.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
Legend rule comes first, so the first thing you must do is kill (not sacrifice) one of the Gyruda.
You might choose to kill the older one, if you wish for the new one to fight.
Whichever you kill, both ETB will trigger, and resolve a little while later, in the order of your choice.
If you chose to kill the new Gyruda, Ragebeast trigger will resolve but won't do anything: there can't be a fight if one creature is missing.
704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 117, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.
704.5j If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.”
Note that a choice that removes the new Gyruda will not "un-trigger" any abilities that are waiting to go on the stack.
Ok, let me know if I have this down correctly.
Gruul Ragebeast and Gyruda, Doom of Depths are in play. I cast a 2nd Gyruda from my hand. First step, Legend Rule, I send the Gyruda I just cast from my hand to the graveyard. However you're saying even if I send my 2nd Gyruda to the graveyard it's ETB goes on the stack still triggers? If so, how about the ETB trigger for Gruul Ragebeast?
You control Gyruda (a legendary creature named Gyruda, Doom of Depths) and Gruul Ragebeast on the battlefield. You cast another card named Gyruda, Doom of Depths from your hand.
All players pass, then that spell resolves. It enters the battlefield (C.R. 608.3), making its last ability trigger. However, since a "creature", namely the new Gyruda, has just entered the battlefield under your control, Gruul Ragebeast's ability also triggers (C.R. 603.2). Note that these abilities trigger this way even before state-based actions are checked.
State-based actions are now checked (C.R. 117.3b, 117.5). Since you control two legendary permanents named Gyruda, Doom of Depths, one of them you control of your choice goes to the graveyard (C.R. 704.5j). You choose to have the Gyruda that just entered the battlefield go to the graveyard. Even so, however, this doesn't affect the abilities that just triggered, whether Gyruda's or Gruul Ragebeast's, since they "exis[t] ... independently" of those permanents (C.R. 113.7a).
You put the abilities that just triggered and were referred to in the previous step onto the stack in the order of your choice (C.R. 117.5, 603.3b). Assume in what follows that you put the Gruul Ragebeast ability above the Gyruda ability. Since you put the Gruul Ragebeast ability on the stack, you must target a "creature an opponent controls" even though the second Gyruda is no longer on the battlefield (C.R. 603.3d, 601.2c), and you must do so right now no matter what order you choose to put those two abilities on the stack. (If you can't do so, then the ability is removed from the stack [C.R. 603.3d, 601.2c], but assume in what follows that you can target a "creature an opponent controls".)
All players pass, then the Gruul Ragebeast ability resolves. However, since the creature it refers to (the second Gyruda) is no longer on the battlefield, it will not deal damage to the targeted creature or vice versa (C.R. 701.12b). That ability leaves the stack (C.R. 608.2k).
All players pass, then the Gyruda ability resolves and its instructions are carried out. That ability leaves the stack.
Gyruda has it's own ETB trigger and it's Legendary. I cast a second Gyruda from my hand. My question is, does this cause BOTH ETB triggers to happen for Ragebeast and the second Gyruda? Will the second Gyruda that entered the battlefield cause my opponent to mill four cards and fight a target creature my opponent controls BEFORE I have to sacrifice it (Legend rule)?
Your wisdom is much appreciated.
In such a case, YOU decide the order they will resolve. (rule 603.3b)
As for your second question, I'm not sure I understand how a second Gyruda would come into play... please elaborate.
In any case, State-based actions are dealt with first, before any triggered abilities, so a double-legend would die before it can fight. (rule 704.3)
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
If they keep the first Gyruda, the Ragebeast's trigger would be nerfed but the Gyruda's own trigger would work just fine. If they keep the second Gyruda (which is probably undamaged), both triggers work as they did for the first Gyruda.
The state-based actions are performed before triggered abilities are put on the stack.
Note that a choice that removes the new Gyruda will not "un-trigger" any abilities that are waiting to go on the stack.
You might choose to kill the older one, if you wish for the new one to fight.
Whichever you kill, both ETB will trigger, and resolve a little while later, in the order of your choice.
If you chose to kill the new Gyruda, Ragebeast trigger will resolve but won't do anything: there can't be a fight if one creature is missing.
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
Ok, let me know if I have this down correctly.
Gruul Ragebeast and Gyruda, Doom of Depths are in play. I cast a 2nd Gyruda from my hand. First step, Legend Rule, I send the Gyruda I just cast from my hand to the graveyard. However you're saying even if I send my 2nd Gyruda to the graveyard it's ETB goes on the stack still triggers? If so, how about the ETB trigger for Gruul Ragebeast?