So I'm working on an Otrimi, the Ever-Playful beast tribal deck concept on tappedout when I found an interesting interaction that I want to confirm if it works, or not. Here's the board state, Otrimi, the Ever-Playful currently has Boneyard Lurker mutated under it. There's also a Wirewood Savage and a Primeval Bounty in play, but they aren't relevant to my question, just showing you why I would want to do this.
I've been told by people before that you have to select targets for triggers as they are placed on the stack, so I'm like 50% sure this works. It would definitely work if I had another artifact to juggle with Sol Ring, or maybe even Hatching Plans, but that's iffy.
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In my group there's this thing called taking a "Ryan turn."
Yeah, that's my fault...
I've been told by people before that you have to select targets for triggers as they are placed on the stack,
Exactly. In your sequence, you would have to choose the "target permanent card from your graveyard" from Boneyard Lurker's ability well before the ability of Sawtusk Demolisher resolves.
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
603.3a A triggered ability is controlled by the player who controlled its source at the time it triggered, unless it’s a delayed triggered ability. To determine the controller of a delayed triggered ability, see rules 603.7d–f.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities they control on the stack in any order they choose. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
603.3c If a triggered ability is modal, its controller announces the mode choice when putting the ability on the stack. If one of the modes would be illegal (due to an inability to choose legal targets, for example), that mode can’t be chosen. If no mode is chosen, the ability is removed from the stack. (See rule 700.2.)
603.3d The remainder of the process for putting a triggered ability on the stack is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2c–d. If a choice is required when the triggered ability goes on the stack but no legal choices can be made for it, or if a rule or a continuous effect otherwise makes the ability illegal, the ability is simply removed from the stack.
601.2c The player announces their choice of an appropriate object or player for each target the spell requires. A spell may require some targets only if an alternative or additional cost (such as a kicker cost) or a particular mode was chosen for it; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not require those targets. Similarly, a spell may require alternative targets only if an alternative or additional cost was chosen for it. If the spell has a variable number of targets, the player announces how many targets they will choose before they announce those targets. In some cases, the number of targets will be defined by the spell’s text. Once the number of targets the spell has is determined, that number doesn’t change, even if the information used to determine the number of targets does. The same target can’t be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word “target” on the spell. However, if the spell uses the word “target” in multiple places, the same object or player can be chosen once for each instance of the word “target” (as long as it fits the targeting criteria). If any effects say that an object or player must be chosen as a target, the player chooses targets so that they obey the maximum possible number of such effects
without violating any rules or effects that say that an object or player can’t be chosen as a target. The chosen objects and/or players each become a target of that spell. (Any abilities that trigger when those objects and/or players become the target of a spell trigger at this point; they’ll wait to be put on the stack until the spell has finished being cast.)
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
... a mutating creature spell resolves, resulting in a merged creature that includes Boneyard Lurker and Sawtusk Demolisher (one of which may have just been added). This triggers its mutation abilities; I'll assume it's just those two for now.
You would get priority, but there are triggered abilities to put on the stack. You control them both, so you choose the order (not that it will matter much). A) You put "Whenever this creature mutates, return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand." on the stack, choosing the Sol Ring in your graveyard as the target. B) You put "Whenever this creature mutates, destroy target noncreature permanent. Its controller creates a 3/3 green Beast token." on the stack, choosing your Hatching Plans as the target.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 2B) resolves. You destroy Hatching Plans, triggering its ability. You create a 3/3 green Beast token, triggering the ability of Wirewood Savage.
You would get priority, but there is are triggered abilities to put on the stack. A) You put "When Hatching Plans is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, draw three cards." on the stack. B) You put "Whenever a Beast enters the battlefield, you may draw a card." on the stack.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 6B) resolves. You may draw a card.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 6A) resolves. You draw three cards.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 2A) resolves. You return Sol Ring from your graveyard to your hand
You get priority and maybe you cast Sol Ring....
If Sol Ring is on the battlefield and Hatching Plans in the graveyard when you mutate a creature, the result is much the same with those swapped (and of course Sol Ring won't trigger anything when it goes to the graveyard). Also, you probably added Sawtusk Demolisher before Boneyard Lurker to ensure that one of those was already in the graveyard.
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
The exactness of the stack triggers gave me a chuckle, but yeah, that's the idea, and thank you. I already modded the deck to include Hatching Plans, and Claws of Gix for another way to ditch Hatching Plans in case I don't draw Sawtusk Demolisher, or Beast Within. Mind you, I do plan on using them to destroy my opponent's stuff too, but I wanted to use them for myself as well. Also included a Darksteel Ingot as a Sawtusk Demolisher target since that wouldn't require Boneyard Lurker.
Side note in case you have any input. I was considering the possibility of running Peer Pressure to gain control of the beast tokens I create for my opponents. The deck is running Eternal Witness and copy cards, so it could be reused. I was also thinking about running Seasons Past for additional recursion. Thank you for any thoughts you have on the matter.
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In my group there's this thing called taking a "Ryan turn."
Yeah, that's my fault...
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I first cast Sol Ring and put 3 +1/+1 counters on Otrimi, the Ever-Playful with Primeval Bounty. Then I cast Sawtusk Demolisher for its mutate cost targeting Otrimi, the Ever-Playful making a 3/3 beast token with Primeval Bounty and drawing a card with Wirewood Savage. Once it resolves the mutate triggers go on the stack.
Here's what I want to do. Just let me know if it works. I want to put Boneyard Lurker on the stack first then Sawtusk Demolisher. The Sawtusk Demolisher destroys my own Sol Ring giving me a 3/3 beast token and drawing a card off of Wirewood Savage. Then the Boneyard Lurker trigger returns that Sol Ring to my hand allowing me to cast it again to put 3 more +1/+1 counters on Otrimi, the Ever-Playful with Primeval Bounty.
I've been told by people before that you have to select targets for triggers as they are placed on the stack, so I'm like 50% sure this works. It would definitely work if I had another artifact to juggle with Sol Ring, or maybe even Hatching Plans, but that's iffy.
Yeah, that's my fault...
Exactly. In your sequence, you would have to choose the "target permanent card from your graveyard" from Boneyard Lurker's ability well before the ability of Sawtusk Demolisher resolves.
Ok, so same scenario, but with Sol Ring getting blown up for a beast token. Then cast Hatching Plans and mutate Orimi, the Ever-Playful again to blow up Hatching Plans for a beast token AND return Sol Ring to my hand. This event would basically insure that I have 1 Sawtusk Demolisher target and 1 Boneyard Lurker target each time I mutate. This works, correct?
Yeah, that's my fault...
To make sure I understand you:
Side note in case you have any input. I was considering the possibility of running Peer Pressure to gain control of the beast tokens I create for my opponents. The deck is running Eternal Witness and copy cards, so it could be reused. I was also thinking about running Seasons Past for additional recursion. Thank you for any thoughts you have on the matter.
Yeah, that's my fault...